Mesh nooby questions

[ForeverDiving]

I've been doing coils since next day of owning my first >$10 tank, a Kanger Aerotank, whose head burned before I could get a supply of replacements. Now I'm producing beautiful machine-like shotgun assemblies for my Kayfun clones in 1.0~1.8Ω. However I'm getting weary of changing cotton wicks every two days, and silica ones once a weeek, half the time breaking the coils in the process.

I've got a decent amount of 400 weave SS mesh and I'd like to put it to use, but have a bunch of questions. Please advice on any or all.

1. Are mesh wicks more long lasting than silica?
2. What diameter of roll should I try?
3. Should I roll the mesh on itself or use a pin or thin rod to roll it?
4. Is it OK to put a core of cotton or silica to aid in wicking?
5. Can it be folded at right angles?
6. How should it be oxidized?
8. Do one wrap the coil directly on the mesh roll or is it preferable to build the coil first and then pass the mesh cylinder through?
9. Can it be used in a Kayfun?

About the last question (#9), I saw a post here that shows a Kayfun build with mesh and cotton. There's a short horizontal length of mesh rolled to about 2mm and cotton is tucked in the juice channels. However, can a silica core protruding from the ends be used instead? Would it have sufficient wicking action?
OTOH, could the mesh be bent in a "U" shape going down to (and just touching) the deck? Would it work?

Thanks for any input. I'd rather not reinvent the wheel and don't feel like doing half a dozen experiments that just end in frustration.

 

[Blackboar]

I've only used ss mesh in my genny, but I will try to answer some of your questions.

Ss mesh wicks definitely last longer than cotton and even silica. I replaced my wick on my genny after 5 weeks of use. It still worked fine and tasted clean, but I changed it just because I felt like it.

I prefer to build hollow wicks. This means I torch the mesh, fold a crease, then wrap it around a 5/64 drill bit. I do wrap the coils directly around the mesh.

Hopefully someone with more experience than I can answer your other questions

 

[Glenn_K]

I can answer some of your questions, and I can also point you toward some good mesh wick resources...are you using mesh just with your Kayfun, or are you looking at getting a Genesis-style RBA too?

I know there are a few people doing mesh wick KF builds (something I plan to try), and hopefully they'll post to this thread.

1. My mesh wicks (genny) tend to last weeks; in my KF, I find that I have to change to the cotton wick every few days.
2. - 5., 8. You'll need to hear from a KG/mesh wick guy.
6. check out this blog. I torch my mesh once before it's rolled, once or twice after it's rolled, and then I do a juice burn two or three times.
9. Yes

Good luck.

- Glenn

 

[BuzzKilla]

mesh.... its been done... but if you are unfamiliar with mesh, a kayfun will not be a good starting point.

mesh in a Genni is about 100x easier than attempting it in a kayfun or similar. Just about everyone who claims to be a "coil building master" wont even go near a genisis tank.

if you want to go that route, then i would say, build on a genisis style tank first and perfect it.
once you do that , then i would suggest doing it on a kayfun.

there is a lot more preparation and finesse with SS, and by the questions you are asking... you are no where near ready to attempt this.

It may sound harsh or arrogant... depends if you've had your morning coffee before reading this.
Don't rish a kayfun meltdown, because it will happen if your first attempt with SS is on a Kayfun.
just because you have built coils before, does not mean you are up to the task of working with SS.
It is a whole different animal, and you are most likely not ready for it.


Take is from someone who practices what they preach...

if you want more info on the build, you can find it HERE. I have answered questions regarding it within that thread.

 

[BuzzKilla]

I've been doing coils since next day of owning my first >$10 tank, a Kanger Aerotank, whose head burned before I could get a supply of replacements. Now I'm producing beautiful machine-like shotgun assemblies for my Kayfun clones in 1.0~1.8Ω. However I'm getting weary of changing cotton wicks every two days, and silica ones once a week, half the time breaking the coils in the process.

May i ask why you are removing the silica build?

Unlike cotton, silica doesn't burn.
You can "dry burn" the whole build, and clean off all the residue without taking the silica out.

making the task of cleaning your kayfun, only take about 2 minutes. and theoretically making the build last well over a month without having to take it apart.....

If this is all you want, then why bother learning a new material like SS?

 

[ForeverDiving]

May i ask why you are removing the silica build?

Unlike cotton, silica doesn't burn.
You can "dry burn" the whole build, and clean off all the residue without taking the silica out.

making the task of cleaning your kayfun, only take about 2 minutes. and theoretically making the build last well over a month without having to take it apart.....

Reflecting on what you say, I'm probably doing it wrong. Most of the times, when I remove the chimney cylinder to clean the wick & coil, it unravels and breaks. I have a hard time getting it back into position. Generally I end up having to thread a new one. I'm guessing you don't disassemble the lower parts to clean? I felt it wasn't cleaning it well.


Enviado desde mi SGH-I337M mediante Tapatalk

 

[BuzzKilla]

maybe leaving the lower portion of the chimney, and just removing the top portion of the chimney, may keep everything together but still let you clean it?
I didnt find any issues doing it this way, but i also would run it under water to fush out any remaining juice before dry burning it.

also, running a torch along the silica('til it glows white) before feeding it through does stiffen it a fair amount. maybe treating it like that will help it keep its form...

always worth a try

 

[ForeverDiving]

Well, I'm a dummknopf, so against all advice, I decided to risk one of my el-cheapo <sp?> $16.50 Kf clones and went and built a mesh wick. 28WGA Kanthal A1, 2.4mm form, 9 wraps = 1.5Ω. Then I cut a 3cm square of 400 mesh in diagonal (did my homework) and rolled a very tight wick over a 1.5mm silica piece. Oxidized, bent to a "U" and oxidized even more. Measured to the top of the deck and cut the ends very square. Reformed the ends so they just squarely touch the juice channels of the Kf. Put the chimney tube on and tested resistance; voilà, a perfect 1.5Ω! Tested with a few drops of juice and it worked ok, then I put a wee bit of cotton to one side of each wick end pushed down with my finest screwdriver. More juice. Finished the assembly and filled the Kf (new thicker section chimney 2 cap o-ring, perfect seal). Tested resistance once more, no variance, still 1.5Ω.
Put that on my Magneto with freshly charged Efest 2500mAh 35A 18650.
Pics below.





My ohm meter consistently reads 0.15Ω above real. so it's really 1.48Ω.

 

[ForeverDiving]

Here I am enjoying my DIY "Scirocco" at 0.6% nic (a heat extract of dry orange peel, moroccan mint, almonds & Balkan tobacco, a true desert wind and/or VW sport car analogy).


The Kf is not even warm! I'll put it on the eVic and show you the temp reading.

Meaning no disrespect guys but I'm a mechanical/electrical engineer who happens to sell cars also —been doing that for the last 40 years. Used to be able to mod a VW Bug engine for racing, and quite successfully. I'm certainly new to this but it's not rocket science.

BTW, the Kf gets waaaay more hot with my twin coil cotton builds than it's doing with this one. The coil is a bit slow in glowing; about 2 sec., while the shotgun builds at 1.1~1.3 made with 30WGA over 2mm form do so in about 1 sec. The vapor and taste are huge tho.




I thank you all for your tips on cleaning the Kfuns, they come real handy; also, heartfelt thanks for your concern.

BTW, I ordered an Acqua clone from SlowTech, it should be here in some 3~4 weeks. I expect that's a more reasonable base for sophisticated builds. The ones you showed are superb!

PS, In case you are curious, My FB wall.

 

[ForeverDiving]

Last question: How long do mesh wicks usually last? This one was easy (did it in about 30 mins, including calculations) but I wouldn't want to have a weekly obligation on this.

 

[BuzzKilla]

in all fairness, my SS wicks are SS only, no hybrid setup.
ie: no cotton or silica added.

Once a week i dry burn, to get rid of all the gunk buildup.

It can theoretically last forever. I've gone well over 3 months on an SS setup, before boredom kicked in...

Only 3 things make me rebuild.
-coil pops (dry burned too often, makes kanthal brittle)
-wire burns through mesh(creates pesky shorts)
-boredom


OFF TOPIC:
Scirocco is a bad ... vehicle, I own an '84 Jetta GLi Coupe. My weekend cruiser

 

[BuzzKilla]

BTW, I ordered an Aqua clone from SlowTech, it should be here in some 3~4 weeks. I expect that's a more reasonable base for sophisticated builds. The ones you showed are superb!

be aware with the Aqua Clone from FT.

With your background, im sure you will notice it when you take it apart....

you may have to drill out a hole, as one of the coil air paths leads to nothing. I ended up drilling it out before giving it away.
its hard to explain, but after taking it apart completely, have a look at the internal air channels.

Unless they fixed it in newer batches.

 

[lexalove]

Hi FD,

A ss mesh wick can last for well over 1 year no problem. The issue that normally signals the death of any mesh wick is the vapers inability to leave things alone!!! lol.

In fact if you read a lot of forums people with more experience than I state that it takes a good month or so for a ss mesh wick to break in properly and produce the crisp, dense flavour they are known for.

So once you get one working that you like... leave it and enjoy it.

 

[Glenn_K]

Is that the new Esta (or Estia) RBA? Looks killer (or Killa ) with that mesh wick build. How does it vape?

-- Glenn

mesh.... its been done... but if you are unfamiliar with mesh, a kayfun will not be a good starting point.

mesh in a Genni is about 100x easier than attempting it in a kayfun or similar. Just about everyone who claims to be a "coil building master" wont even go near a genisis tank.

if you want to go that route, then i would say, build on a genisis style tank first and perfect it.
once you do that , then i would suggest doing it on a kayfun.

there is a lot more preparation and finesse with SS, and by the questions you are asking... you are no where near ready to attempt this.

It may sound harsh or arrogant... depends if you've had your morning coffee before reading this.
Don't rish a kayfun meltdown, because it will happen if your first attempt with SS is on a Kayfun.
just because you have built coils before, does not mean you are up to the task of working with SS.
It is a whole different animal, and you are most likely not ready for it.


Take is from someone who practices what they preach...

if you want more info on the build, you can find it HERE. I have answered questions regarding it within that thread.

 

[Glenn_K]

If you take Buzz K's advice about starting your mesh wick builds on a genny, the Smoktech RSST is a really good choice, preferably the Pyrex version.

It's got an insulated wick hole plus plenty of real estate between the wick hole and center post, so it's almost hard to get a build wrong. PBusardo has done an RSST build demo (one of many on the web i'm sure). Easy peasy.

-- Glenn

I've been doing coils since next day of owning my first >$10 tank, a Kanger Aerotank, whose head burned before I could get a supply of replacements. Now I'm producing beautiful machine-like shotgun assemblies for my Kayfun clones in 1.0~1.8Ω. However I'm getting weary of changing cotton wicks every two days, and silica ones once a weeek, half the time breaking the coils in the process....

 

[WattWick]

Lots of good video tutorials out there. One thing to keep in mind tho, is that they all do it "right". It's just about wrapping some kanthal around a mesh wick and getting rid of hotspots. Looks easy; takes some practice.

The crucial part is wire tension. Not too tight, not too loose. This is where the magic happens. And this is the part that gets the least attention in all the tutorials I've seen. They just wrap, work out hotspots and vape away... and I'm sure they just scrap the take and start a new video if they mess up rather than going into detail on what they did wrong and how to avoid/fix it. I'd love to see more videos of people doing it wrong, then fixing it, than just watching someone doing it right

One might get the impression that the important part is how you work out hotspots, while in reality the important part is getting the wire tension right. That way you get hotspots that actually can be worked out, and stay worked out. Coils biting into the mesh? Hotspot. One coil wrap not in contact with the wick? Hotspot. You can work these out to some extent. Personally I prefer just going back to square one and do a better initial coiling. That way you'll get a more durable setup.

 

[BuzzKilla]

Is that the new Esta (or Estia) RBA? Looks killer (or Killa ) with that mesh wick build. How does it vape?

-- Glenn

Sure is!
The Estia is awesome... but it does take some creativity to build.
But i just like taking the extra step... The results are well worth it
After doing the SS build, I have no urge whatsoever to go back to cotton or silica, if that answers your question.

While the RSST has very good insulation, it will not prepare a person for SS wicks. there is nothing that is easier to build on , than the RSST.
on my RSST i literally drop the mesh in without torching, and i'm up and running 5 minutes later.
In all honesty, i was surprised that i got everything sorted out on the estia at all... considering the mesh has a lot of opportunity to ground out


WattWick is on point with coil tension, but its one of those steps that become intuitive over time. And thus not preached about.
The coil has to literally just be touching, without choking it... which isn't the best description when you read it out loud. lol

 

[ForeverDiving]

Oh yes! I love them. When I was young(er) I had a couple. One "Digifant" 1.8L and one Turbo 2.0 gas. Left V8's in the dust rutinely. The new ones are scary! OTOH, the other day I drove a Polo GTI Turbo 1.8. Wow. 180HP put on the ground by a DSG 7 change gearbox. An Audi A6 approached me with curiosity at a red light. On green he stepped oon the gas; pedal to the metal. By the 400m mark I was a whole car length ahead. He feigned a left turn... LOL! I'm 67 but stopped maturing at 17!

Night out. Must go. I'll pick the thread tomorrow. Many thanks for the tips guys (all of you). Back later, stay tuned.

 

[ForeverDiving]

Only 3 things make me rebuild.
-coil pops (dry burned too often, makes kanthal brittle)
-wire burns through mesh(creates pesky shorts)
-boredom

Superb! Next build I'm shooting for a dual coil 1.5Ω of pure mesh.

 

[ForeverDiving]

the Smoktech RSST is a really good choice, preferably the Pyrex version.

Good lead, thanks a bunch. As mentioned, I'm waiting for an Acqua clone but I've also ogled the RSST. I have a Smok Magneto, can it be made a hybrid with the RSST?

PS, caught this on another thread (Squape clon, FT. Opinions? It looks very "Kayfun-like". Are they good?