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Milk Tart (South African version)

Discussion in 'DIY E-Liquid' started by Ricksha, Jan 28, 2017.

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  1. man00ver

    man00ver Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 10, 2014
    Braselton, GA, USA
    FYI, I baked another real Milktart last night, using @G-Fog's wife's recipe and a store-bought pastry crust to hold the filling, but omitting the Almond extract this time and using just a teaspoon of Vanilla Extract instead. Also I sprinkled a little nutmeg along with the cinnamon on top.

    It tastes just the way I imagined it would when I started pitching in on this; simple and good. It's fluffy enough to where I think a little more Meringue wouldn't hurt, for its own sake rather than as part of a condensed milk effort. Otherwise, no new insights. Carry on!
     
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  2. Ricksha

    Ricksha Full Member

    Feb 19, 2015
    Austin TX
    A quick update on the Milktart v4.a that I mixed up last week to test the addition of Eggnog in this recipe. Juice steeped for 6 days and process was boosted by using the reciprocating-accelerator method, combined with frequent airing. Mix was a 80/20 VG/PG @ 4% nic. I vaped this in 3 different tanks to get a handle on the flavor profile on the Eggnog. Hardware was anold trusted Smok RSST (SS rope, Clapton Nichrome coil @.3 ohm), Uwell Crown (0.5 ohm) and a Geekvape Griffin (dual Clapton Nichrome @ 0.15ohm), all vaped at 65 watts in various high power mods.

    Notes on Eggnog in this mix: Right off the bat this isn’t Milktart but that wasn’t the objective of the exercise. As expected the custard is almost not present, as is the crust. It is however a very pleasant vape. The TFA Eggnog gives this recipe a distinct profile which I think will deepen with age (prob needs a good 3-4 weeks steep in a mix). Some trace of Nutmeg which was pleasing but only comes to the fore when the vape is warm. There is a Cinnamon taste present. As with all Eggnog’s there is a “hint” of something (the "hint" is typically some kind of alcohol) but I can’t put my finger on what it is. My daughter reckons by adding banana you would have the perfect banana bread FWIW.

    Uwell Crown: Very sweet, almost bright creamy (FA Cream, CAP Sweet Cream ?), Custard is there but hidden behind all the cream, faint crust. Eggnog flavor is pronounced but the Nutmeg and Cinnamon tastes are hidden behind the sweet creaminess.

    Griffin: Less sweet, loses the “bright” creaminess (I reckon the dual coils takes care of that), the deeper flavors in the Eggnog can be tasted.

    Summary: I’m not sure that by dropping the % used, the Cinnamon/Nutmeg/Spicy favors will surface and therefore don’t think TFA Eggnog belongs in the Milktart mix. But I am convinced TFA Eggnog has possibilities for something like a good rum cake or similar desert/fruit cake. Combined @ 1.5% with TFA Pie Crust (which has a distinct English Sherry note for me), some INW Biscuit, splashed with a combination of fruit, will make a killer Christmas/Fruit cake. While sucking on this mix all day I was also reminded of another South African favorite namely Pannekoek or Pancake (aka Dutch pancake, think French Crepes with dusting of cinnamon/sugar mix). I’m definitely going to explore both these options.

    Sidenote: So far the various versions (except V1.a) ended up being very sweet and I ascribe this to the low % flavor (< 10%) which has to compete with the natural sweetness of the VG/PG. Everyone’s taste buds are different and perhaps exposure to vaping my own mixes for the past 5-6 years conditioned mine to be sensitive to the natural PG/VG sweetness. I am going to slightly increase the overall flavor % to somewhere between 10-14% going forward.
     
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  3. Ricksha

    Ricksha Full Member

    Feb 19, 2015
    Austin TX
    @man00ver have you broken out your v2 mix and tasted it yet ? I now have all the ingredients, including the distilled Condensed Milk, to mix a copy, but would like to hear your feedback before I do.

    As an aside I ordered INW Biscuit (couldn't find Spicy Biscuit). All I can say is that it smells delectable. I immediately whipped up a derivative of my Milktart v4. Will hopefully be able to take my first taste next weekend. I have a suspicion the INW Biscuit/FA Cookie combo is going to be a good match for the Milktart's crust.

    Milktart v4.b
    TFA Dairy Milk - 1%
    TFA Malted Milk – 0.5%
    FA Meringue - 0.5%
    FA Apple Pie - 1%
    FA Cookie - 0.5%
    INW Biscuit – 1.5%
    TFA Sweet Cream - 0.5%
    FA Fresh Cream - 1.5%
    FA Vienna Cream – 3%
    CAP Vanilla Custard – 1%
    Total flavoring: 11%

    I've never used FA's Vienna Cream before so was unsure of its custard potency, thus the dash of CAP Custard. I may have also been heavy handed on the INW Biscuit - only have my eagerness to taste this beauty to blame.
     
  4. man00ver

    man00ver Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 10, 2014
    Braselton, GA, USA
    I haven't tried either v1.1 or v2 as yet. My plan was to revisit my fully-steeped v1.0 with a high-performing setup this weekend, but I ended up working on another recipe project and don't have room at the moment (probably tomorrow). The newer versions are just a week old, so in a few days I'll give them a run in my low-power testers to get some initial impressions. My nose tells me they're not quite settled yet.
    I hope you bought a big bottle of Biscuit, it's so useful. That and FA Cookie are like twins from different mothers, with Cookie just a little more buttery and Biscuit just a touch more wafer-like. They're great tools, and you may indeed be happy with that mild cookie crust.
    That looks quite good! I'm glad you kept Malted Milk low, as it can muddle other flavors in my experience. Vienna Cream's custard note is more delicate than CAP's VC, so adding the latter is understandable and surely will do no harm. I'll be eager to know if it's close to the cream base + crust you're looking for.

    P.S. Just so you know I haven't been slacking, I baked yet another Mrs. @G-Fog milktart tonight. There was one more pastry crust left from my wife's shopping, and I'd learned a few things from my prior two efforts. This time I did both vanilla and almond extracts, lightly. It's in the fridge for the overnight. So, I guess you could say I've become a fan!
     
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  5. man00ver

    man00ver Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 10, 2014
    Braselton, GA, USA
    Minor update: I'm finishing up my v1.0 test in my dual-coiled Bellus tank, where it's even more apparent that the Catalan Cream doesn't belong. The cream and crust are still very close to target, but the citrus and spice, while not at all strong, are still too present. I do have hope for v1.1 though, and we'll just see about v2 pretty soon, also. If the v1 line goes forward, I might even rich it up a little.
     
  6. man00ver

    man00ver Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 10, 2014
    Braselton, GA, USA
    Tonight I skipped right over the slumbering v1.1 and am running my 11-day-old v2.0 in my Youde Bellus power rig.

    I'm putting TFA Dairy Milk right out of the running. The diluted FA Milk Condensed is fully in charge of this recipe, powering a milk-and-flour taste that nails the essence of the milktarts I've been eating. It also dries out the vape quite a bit, so the first order of business in v2.1 will be buffing up the other creams and adding back Meringue. I'll also add a dash of INW Shisha Vanilla. The crust blend is good, and the low-dose Butterscotch/Caramel team is just right for sweetness. The light dusting of spice from Spicy Biscuit also seems right.

    It seems the v2 line may win this race for me, but I'll be loading up a tank of v1.1 right behind this one; report to follow in a day or two.

    P.S. Man, I'm going to have to cut down on that Milk Condensed. Even in a 10% dilution, 1% is still too much. My v2.1 will throttle it back to 0.5%.
     
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  7. man00ver

    man00ver Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 10, 2014
    Braselton, GA, USA
    @Ricksha @IDJoel
    Version 1.1 on trial today and last night: It's good, but seems lacking after the milky punch from FA Milk Condensed in v2. At this level, the blandness of the cream base is letting a touch of gingerbread escape from the Spicy Biscuit. It will probably improve with more time, so it's still promising. I'm going to move on to some new ideas while I wait for it.

    SA Milktart v3 - man00ver
    0.25% Acetyl Pyrazine 5% (TPA)
    1.5% Apple Pie (FA)
    0.75% Biscuit (INAWERA)
    0.25% Cinnamon Ceylon (FA)
    1.5% Cream Fresh (FA)
    1% Custard (INAWERA)
    0.5% DX Brown Sugar (TPA)
    0.75% Milk Condensed (FA) 1:10 Dilution
    0.5% Vanilla Shisha (INAWERA)
    3% Vienna Cream (FA)
    Flavor total: 10%

    I intend to mix this up tonight, and I'm hoping it could be a finished product. I've recently tasted INW Custard at 3%. It's remarkably good (and at least twice the intensity of Capella's version); I'm letting it in here to do creamy combat against the slightly-reduced percentage of diluted Milk Condensed. This dynamic duo should hold down the fruit in FA Apple Pie, which is back on crust duty (with INW Biscuit and AP). Brown Sugar is back, since it feels like the more appropriate sweetener. Spicy Biscuit is out, with Vanilla Shisha and Cinnamon Ceylon lined up for bakery spices, while still keeping Holiday Spice in mind for a nutmeg version.

    ...And I'm all out of real milktart, @G-Fog! Maybe I'll try making the crust by hand tomorrow.
     
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  8. G-Fog

    G-Fog Senior Member ECF Veteran

    @man00ver I reckon you're eating more milk tart than I am:D
     
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  9. Ricksha

    Ricksha Full Member

    Feb 19, 2015
    Austin TX
    @man00ver what is the PG/VG ratio you mixed these at ?
     
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  10. man00ver

    man00ver Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 10, 2014
    Braselton, GA, USA
    I'm doing all these at 60VG.
     
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  11. Ricksha

    Ricksha Full Member

    Feb 19, 2015
    Austin TX
    Will drop mine to 70% (was 80%). interesting comment re INW Custard. Ordered some today. hopefully this is the right custard.
     
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  12. Ricksha

    Ricksha Full Member

    Feb 19, 2015
    Austin TX
    I happened to be in San Diego last week and met up with my friend who owns a South African food shop. They bake all sorts of stuff, including traditional meat pies and milk tart. They were getting ready for the rugby 7's in Vegas and Marie Louise was preparing 3 dozen milk tarts for the event, plus a few thousand other baked items. I walked away with 2 milk tarts which served as desert for a couple of nights. Needless to say my milk tart taste buds have been reset - bliss.

    Over the weekend I cracked open my v4 juice for a sneak taste (couldn't stare at those bottles any longer). Even though it had been steeping for 9 days only, I figured the major flavors should've been there. Turned out to be somewhat of a disappointment. The crust is beautiful but it lacks the creaminess and custard tones I was hoping for. Am am thus changing my strategy slightly here because I think I have a few baselines from which a final decision can be made:
    • Mixed a version of the V1 mix (which was very good) but dropping the FW Dulce de Leche and swapping the TFA Bav. Cream for Sweet cream and adding 0.5% FA Condensed Milk (10%) - V1.d
    • Mixed 3 versions of v4, using the FA/INW crust combo in all, using CAP, FA and INW custards with a combo of FA and TFA creams respectively in each of the 3. One of these mirrors your V3 version closely @man00ver (dropped Cinnamon Ceylon). V4.d, V4.e, V4.f.
    Hidden from my prying hands in the steeping rack for a few weeks they are. In the meantime I'm going to play around with the Cinnamon and Nutmeg flavors so I have a better idea of what will work in a milk tart recipe. FWIW below is a copy of the recipes in Excel format:

    Recipes.JPG
     
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  13. man00ver

    man00ver Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 10, 2014
    Braselton, GA, USA
    @Ricksha @IDJoel @G-Fog
    This is tasting extremely close to what I want from this recipe, so I think it's time for my final tweaking.

    SA Milktart v3.1 (FINAL) - man00ver
    0.25% Acetyl Pyrazine 5% (TPA)
    0.3% Almond (FA)
    1.5% Apple Pie (FA)
    0.75% Biscuit (INAWERA)
    0.3% Cinnamon Ceylon (FA)
    1.5% Cream Fresh (FA)
    1.6% Custard (INAWERA)
    0.6% DX Brown Sugar (TPA)
    0.6% Milk Condensed (FA) 1:10 Dilution
    0.6% Vanilla Shisha (INAWERA)
    3% Vienna Cream (FA)
    Flavor total: 11%

    I wanted just a bit more sweetness and another shot of creaminess, so I'm bumping the Custard, and fine-tuning Vanilla Shisha and Brown Sugar up a hair. Also, I'm shaving back the wonderfully explosive Milk Condensed Dilution again. And, in a tribute to Mrs. G-Fog's magnificently educational recipe, I'm adding a drop of FA Almond, which should also help with sweetening (those who prefer to forego may substitute TFA Sweetener instead), and tuning up the Cinnamon Ceylon also.

    I believe this will be just right...but then again I've been wrong before. I'll be making 30mL tomorrow.
     
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  14. Ricksha

    Ricksha Full Member

    Feb 19, 2015
    Austin TX
    @man00ver I think we've basically nailed this recipe. I broke out my last 4 variants over the weekend after a 2-week steep and can convincingly say that V4.f is pretty damn close to the actual taste of the milk tarts I grew up with. Working the different angles with a multitude of different flavor profiles, I think we managed to pair the right flavors for the basic elements of a south african milk tart.
    Must have - Filling:
    The basic essence of the filling is captured with INW Custard and Vanilla Shisha (2 magic flavors) and supplemented with FA Condensed Milk. Adding Meringue is an option if you like those recipes where the egg whites are folded into final custard mix. Neither CAP or FA Custard works in this recipe.​
    Must have - Crust:
    FA Apple Pie and INW Biscuit is the perfect combination for the crust.
    I think the addition of a little AP or TFA Cheesecake Graham Crust is optional dependent on someone's taste buds. Neither FW or TFA Pie Crust's are right for this recipe.​
    Creamy/milky - Filling:
    FA Option: For those preferring FA creams, the Cream Fresh and Vienna Cream combo can be used.
    TFA or CAP Option: For those preferring the TFA/CAP creams, one can use TFA Sweet Cream and/or CAP Sweet cream.​
    Cinnamon dusting - Optional:
    Even though every SA milk tart recipe includes a light Cinnamon dusting, I'm going to admit that this must be optional as it is so easy to mess up the flavor if you get this wrong. We used a variety of flavors to nail this part of the recipe and I think ultimately the options are either TFA Cinnamon Spice or FA Cinnamon Ceylon. However, I think you'll agree that one needs to be very, very careful with the amount used else it will ruin the complex flavors in the background.​
    Almond - Optional:
    Even though this is optional in real-world recipes, a tiny bit of Almond spice just gives it a special background taste.
    I'll be mixing my final version tonight and will post the recipe as well. But I learned my lesson - I'm going to mix up 120 ml and not 30 ml. 30 ml only lasts a couple of days !
     
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  15. Ricksha

    Ricksha Full Member

    Feb 19, 2015
    Austin TX
    I just mixed up 120 ml of what I think should be the final tester for this recipe.

    Milktart (South African version) v5
    TFA Dairy Milk - 0.5%
    FA Meringue - 0.25%
    FA Apple Pie - 1%
    INW Biscuit – 1.5%
    TFA Cheesecake Graham Crust - 0.5%
    CAP Sweet Cream - 1%
    TFA Sweet Cream - 1%
    FA Condensed Milk (10% dil.) - 0.5%
    INW Shisha Vanilla - 0.6%
    INW Custard – 4%
    Total flavoring: 10.85%

    Instead of using AP I added a bit of the Cheesecake Graham Crust to boost the crust. I've also continued with the Meringue included to round off the custard filling.

    Once the juice has steeped for 2 or so weeks, I'll separate into a few 30ml bottles and add the Cinnamon and Nut flavors. That way I should still have at least 60ml for a baseline, just in case I mess something up.
     
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  16. man00ver

    man00ver Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 10, 2014
    Braselton, GA, USA
    That looks very legit, @Ricksha, and is likely to be a bit richer than mine. I'll mix a bottle of it too, once you say what you think of it. Then I'll bake another milktart, purely for scientific comparison purposes. Uh-huh. :)
     
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  17. retired1

    retired1 Administrator Admin Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 5, 2013
    Texas
    As this was not a finished recipe and posted for the purposes of developing one, moved to DIY E-Liquid
     
  18. Ricksha

    Ricksha Full Member

    Feb 19, 2015
    Austin TX
    I broke out the v5 version over the weekend for a test drive and am really happy with the result. I ended up mixing up two 120ml bottles, the first as per the above recipe and on the second I swapped the FA Condensed Milk with FW Dulce De Leche. I think this recipe is 97.5% on target. The only change I will be making is to increase the INW Custard by 1 or 2 % points.

    I also played with the Cinnamon which is an essential part of the Milktart itself. The issue at hand, or flavor to mimick, is the dry cinnamon powder which is "dusted" over the Milktart after it has been baked (or sprinkled on unbaked version before it's cooled in the fridge). I filled two 30ml bottles and added a few drops of TFA Cinnamon Danish (0.5% or 6 drops) to one and TFA Cinnamon Spice (0.25% or 3 drops) to the other and let it steep for a few days. The Cinnamon Danish isn't right but the Cinnamon Spice worked out great. What a great Cinnamon this is, bright, tantalizing and fresh taste. I dont like Cinnamon as a rule but this one is amkeeper. However, the Custard isn't strong enough to poke it's head over the Cinnamon and must be increased.

    So @man00ver if you want to mix up a sample I suggest you lift the Custard by 1 or 2% and add the Almond and Cinnamon. I am keen to hear how it compares in your scientific shootout.
     
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  19. Ricksha

    Ricksha Full Member

    Feb 19, 2015
    Austin TX
    For my final tunings on the Milktart experiment:

    Milktart (South African version) v5.b
    TFA Dairy Milk - 0.5%
    FA Meringue - 0.25%
    FA Apple Pie - 1%
    INW Biscuit – 2%
    TFA Cheesecake Graham Crust - 0.5%
    CAP Sweet Cream - 1%
    TFA Sweet Cream - 1%
    FW Dulce De Leche - 0.5%
    INW Shisha Vanilla - 1%
    INW Custard – 5%
    TFA Cinnamon Spice 0.2%
    Total flavoring: 12.95%

    Milktart v5 by itself is a great vape and goes down well with a coffee in the morning, or just anytime of the day. These final tweaks should balance out all the flavors now that the Cinnamon is added. Slight increase in the Biscuit, FW Dulce De Leche for condensed milk taste (can be subbed by FA Condensed milk 10% dilution at same %), slightly upped the Vanilla and boosted the Custard to stand alongside the Cinnamon.

    While I wait for this mix to rest in Steeping Hollow, there is 200 ml of v5 goodness just waiting to be turned into pleasant vapor.
     
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  20. man00ver

    man00ver Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 10, 2014
    Braselton, GA, USA
    Thanks for the update, @Ricksha. I don't have FW DDL, so I'll go with the Condensed Milk dilution + FA Cinnamon Ceylon 0.25% (which is not too strong at all) and will zip together 30mL of your v5.b tomorrow.

    Timely posting, since my v3.1 is two weeks old today. I'll have to clean out a suitable tank for that.
     
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