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Missing something

Discussion in 'Cloud Chasers' started by PatThePoltergiest, Oct 17, 2014.

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  1. PatThePoltergiest

    PatThePoltergiest Full Member

    Mar 10, 2014
    West Virginia
    I am not getting the expected result out of my builds. I have been experimenting with dual coil builds anywhere from 1 to .5 ohm. Traditional, micro, macro, twisted wire, 32 to 18ga, you name it I have pretty much tried it. My RDA has adjustable air flow. I use 100% VG juice. But, I am not getting much of a difference in vapor quality. I get heat. I even get more vapor volume. But my clouds are weak and thin.

    My protank running at 2.5 with 70vg / 30pg on a nemesis is performing every bit as good as my dripper. What am I missing? I don't want to fog a room necessarily, but I want my clouds to be dense as glue. That is my goal.

    I often feel that the larger wire is a disadvantage. It seems to heat slower for some reason? I would think that running dual 2ohm coils would be like running two single coil builds at the same time but it isnt. Given the same resistance, I can tell very little difference between single and dual. I can tell very little between wrapping styles too. Not getting the point is irritating me.

    I always build on a nemesis mech mod with 30 amp batteries. If that matters.
     
  2. Wraith504

    Wraith504 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 25, 2014
    New Orleans, LA
  3. PatThePoltergiest

    PatThePoltergiest Full Member

    Mar 10, 2014
    West Virginia
    I forget the name. It is just a typical 3 post design with 6 air holes on each side and a inner cap that slides to cover the unwanted holes. It is nothing elaborate. Nice deck and fairly deep. I also have an IGO-W and I can barely tell them apart. Aside from the air flow.
     
  4. PatThePoltergiest

    PatThePoltergiest Full Member

    Mar 10, 2014
    West Virginia
    My top performing juice is Elysian E-Lixirs. 70/30 blend at 6mg. It gives a very nice vape. If I could just get a half more out of it I would be pretty happy.
     
  5. Markill

    Markill Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 24, 2014
    Connecticut
    Are all your coils wrapped tightly, with no room between them? Are you over or underwicking them? And the thicker wires do take longer to heat up, simply because there's more wire there that needs to be heated up
     
  6. edyle

    edyle ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    That's because you're shooting in the dark between gauge, ohms, and volts.

    If you're using a mech then you're vaping at a nominal 3.7 volts.
    If you're using 28 gauge on the mech, you'll need about 1 ohm per coil.
    If you're using 30 gauge on the mech, you'll need ..... maybe 1.5 or 2 ohm
    If you're using 32 gauge on the mech, you'll need ..... maybe 2 to 2.5 ohm.

    If you have a vv mod, then you'd be able to adjust the volts to the ohm/gauge combination instead of just shooting in the dark.
     
  7. Ryedan

    Ryedan ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 31, 2012
    Ontario, Canada
    With dual coil builds, 1.0 ohm is too high. That build is two 2 ohm coils in parallel. Even at 4.2v, that's 8 watts per coil max and less when battery volts go down, which is not going to perform well. If you build that setup with thick wire, you're making it even worse.

    I typically run a 0.5 ohm dual coil setup in a few different drippers. I use 27 gauge wire and I find it heats up pretty quick and there's no way a Protank is going to be in the same league. This is two 1 ohm coils running at between 10-15 watts each depending on battery voltage, so 20-30 watts total. Sometimes I take it down to around 0.3 ohms total fro 30-45 watts, but for all day vaping I find that a little too aggressive.

    The wire choice needs to suit the power level. Power is directly related to atty resistance, the lower the resistance is the more amps it draws from the battery and the more power it makes. Draw too many amps from your battery and it will heat up and eventually vent.

    If the wire is too thick the mass and surface area of the coil will be higher than the same resistance coil with thinner wire and fewer wraps. If the wire is too thick, the coil will take a while to heat up and it might actually not get hot enough to vape properly for you. Too thin and it will heat fast, but it might get too hot and burn your juice.

    So if you're making 0.8 - 1.2 ohm single coils I suggest using 26-30 gauge wire, but I prefer 27 or 28. You can adjust from there so the vape experience suits you.

    Hope this helps :)
     
  8. PatThePoltergiest

    PatThePoltergiest Full Member

    Mar 10, 2014
    West Virginia
    Ok, so I just built a brand new dual coil with 28ga that comes in right at .5ohms. Heat. Just heat and intensity. The juice is not giving a burnt taste but it is more than doubling the throat hit I usually get from this juice. No good.

    I am starting to think my wicking is to blame. I can dial up the heat and the air and the juice. The only thing left is the wick. I use silica because I can taste cotton. Yes, even boiled cotton.
     
  9. PatThePoltergiest

    PatThePoltergiest Full Member

    Mar 10, 2014
    West Virginia
    I run my single coil protanks at 2ohms, that is 8 watts on a fresh charge. So, two 2ohm coils would be like two of my protanks going at once. See the idea? I am just taking my usual build and doubling it. 8 watts per coil is my norm. I may be misunderstanding the logic. Does a dripper really need that much more power? Why?
     
  10. DaveP

    DaveP PV Master & Musician ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 22, 2010
    Central GA
    A hot vape is generally an undersaturated wick. Juice it up and turn up the air flow. You may not have achieved the balance you need between heat (watts), wick saturation, and air flow. I was in the local B&M the other day and the owner handed me her DNA30 to try. It was set at 23.5 watts with a Nautilus Mini. She had drilled out the air holes to several times stock size. The draw was easy enough to lung hit and the vapor was cool, tasty, and thick enough to obscure the person in front of me. I could blow a cloud several feet long with thick density.

    I'm not much on cloud vaping. I'm generally at 3.7v/1.6 ohms on my Provari with a Kayfun. I can still blow a respectable cloud with 100% PG that resembles a cigar exhale and that's enough for me. 50ml of juice a week is all I want to pay for. :)
     
  11. Ryedan

    Ryedan ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 31, 2012
    Ontario, Canada
    So, the problem is too much heat and TH and not enough vapor? How is the flavor?

    Are your air holes are aligned with the coils? Are your coils high enough so they are in the air flow?

    I'm assuming you have this on your RDA with adjustable air flow and 6 holes. I would really like to know what this dripper is so I can have a look at it. I have a Mutation X that has nine, 2mm holes on each side (huge air!). Is it something like that? I have mine setup at 0.2 ohms right now and with three holes per side open it's a cool vape with a lot of flavor and good vapor. With all the holes open and taking a full lungful of inhale, I get tons of vapor but reduced flavor because of the large air chamber. I also think I'm not running wnough power to take advantage of all the air holes.

    Are you taking lung hits? If you are drawing into your mouth and then inhaling you are not getting enough air flow no matter how many holes you have.

    Yes, if you are using cotton and you're putting too much in the coils you'll choke and dry out the coils. The wicks should slide easily in the coil. Don't use too much cotton. If you're putting the cotton on the inside of the coils, you do not want any touching the outside of the coils.

    Pictures of your setup would be good :)

    Can't think of anything else right now.
     
  12. Ryedan

    Ryedan ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 31, 2012
    Ontario, Canada
    The Protanks have a very small air chamber, limited air flow and use thin wire. That is a huge difference compared to a full sized dripper. It all works together to make your vape experience.

    With a small dripper like this one, running around 8 watts on one coil is a very good vape. In a IGO-W it's lousy.

    Your 0.5 ohm build has plenty of power, there's certainly no need for more. I'm pretty sure it's just there is something is wrong with your setup. The devil is in the details :)
     
  13. edyle

    edyle ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    It's not the dripper that needs more power, it's the thicker wire that needs more power.

    The dripper has more space to work with than regular clearomizers, so as a result you can use the thicker wire.
     
  14. PatThePoltergiest

    PatThePoltergiest Full Member

    Mar 10, 2014
    West Virginia
    Yes, that is almost exactly what I have. I align the coils with the bottom two holes. I have been using 3mm ecowool silica wick. I pull it through and wrap the ends under the coil. The coil is sitting on the wick at the bottom but nowhere else. It is snug in the coil but you can move it without distorting the wire. I do usually take lung hits. The vapor density goes down when I do however. This last .5 build was too intense to do a lung hit lol.
     
  15. edyle

    edyle ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    I'm guessing that is a 0.5 ohm dual coil at 30 gauge. You mean it was too hot?

    Or maybe I got that wrong and you mean it's just real cloudy/vapory.
     
  16. PatThePoltergiest

    PatThePoltergiest Full Member

    Mar 10, 2014
    West Virginia
    .5 ohms at 28 gauge was too hot. Vapor was thin and throat hit was very harsh.
     
  17. edyle

    edyle ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    So 0.5 ohm single coil 28 guage at 4 volts;
    yes that's too hot. You'd want 2 volts for that.

    it is
    1 ohm single coil 28 guage for 4 volts.
    If you make 2 of those coils you get a dual coil at 0.5 ohms.

    If you used a regulated mod, you could experiment with your build and adjust the voltage to suit.
     
  18. fogging_katrider

    fogging_katrider Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 31, 2013
    Tennessee USA
    You'll get much better flavor if you didnt have your wick ends stuffed under the coil. Without that wick under the coil the air can flow over/under and around the coil much better and your vape quality will increase considerably. try it please.

    Also, you said you dont like cotton because you can taste cotton. A properly cotton wicked coil will only taste cottony the first several drags, then it will deliver the absolute best flavor you'll ever find once its broken in. Once you find the right wick tension...not too tight and not too loose...you'll really wonder why you ever used ecowool silica wick...i promise if you give it a chance you'll love it.

    When I wick a dripper with cotton I saturate the cotton and let it sit a minute or two to soak in thoroughly, then I fire it up without the cap and blow on it a few long button presses fogging up the area some and breaking in that cotton wick combo... then I rewet it and slap on the rda's cap and that initial cottonyness is history...just pure flavor here

    But I digress...unshroud that coil and see how the vape improves :thumb:
     
  19. Ryedan

    Ryedan ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 31, 2012
    Ontario, Canada
    Good to know what style atty you've got :)

    First off, I would take the wick out from under the coil to let the coil breath and make more vapor.

    If you do not use lung hits, 0.5 ohms is a waste of power. Change the wicking, open up the air holes all the way and do a fast, big lung hit for one second and see what that's like. I expect it will be cool with low flavor and not intense enough. If that's the case, try longer hits, but stay with high volume (lots of inhale) lung hits. Then experiment with slower inhales, less volume and less air, one at a time and then in combinations. The fewer air holes open the tighter the draw will become and the more flavor you will get, but don't stop doing lung hits or you will not be able to move enough air.

    If you get to a better experience than you are having now you will have learned a few things about how it all works. If you find that even with wide open air and lung inhales it is still too intense for you, the only thing left is to reduce the power. I doubt you will find that though as my 0.2 ohm setup is a cool, non-intense vape for me and your 0.5 ohm setup should be even more so. OTOH, this is my opinion about how the vape is for me and my taste in vaping. Some people just don't like this style of vaping and there's nothing wrong with that ;)

    If you can't get any satisfaction from this, I would replace the silica with cotton and try that. Yes, you'll taste cotton a bit for a little while but that will go away, in around 15 drags if you did it right. Don't put too much in the coils, it should slide in them easily. If you're getting burnt hits it's too tight.
     
  20. PatThePoltergiest

    PatThePoltergiest Full Member

    Mar 10, 2014
    West Virginia
    New dual coil build coming in at 0.65 ohms. 28ga around a 1/8in drill bit compressed. I used cotton and made sure there was nothing touching anywhere around the outside. Cotton taste went away after a while just like you said. Holy crap what a difference. This I can handle. The vape is cool, billowy, and heavy. Flavor is exceptional after tuning the air flow. This is what I was after. You guys are great! Thanks for your help.
     
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