As they say... Thanks to vaping, I am cig free. Except for the horrors of nicotine withdraws, I feel all the other symptoms and benefits of quitting cigarettes. However, each time I try to gather specific health info on google, the first hits are always negative articles regarding vaping. They often quote a scientific study and go overboard about what the scientists found and always say "more research are needed". In my yesterday's search, the first hit was an article almost claiming "go back to cig" based on a paper recently published in Lung Cellular and Molecular Physiology :"Endothelial disruptive proinflammatory effects of nicotine and e-cigarette vapor exposures". So I read in some details the original paper including the methods, results and discussion. I found the paper relatively well rounded, however, the focus was not on ecig but on nicotine effects on "Endothelial lung cells". Experiences performed on ecig are relatively limited, and I noticed a lack of appropriate experimental controls to generalize their conclusions, almost like they threw the ecig samples in the middle of their experiments. "Publish or die" as they say in the field, so I am concern that to publish their paper, which overall is not so original, they had to make a "sexy" title with the hot topic ecig. The study was funded by the NIH, but seems negatively bias against ecig as other articles, published by the American Lung Association which don't even acknowledge the overwhelming benefit that many ex-smokers found in vaping. It is almost like "smoke, it's better for you"... so "we don't loose our job!?" "More research are needed", as they say but they don't offer functional alternatives, or proposal to make ecig safer if necessary. Chantix maybe? We all know how many people this drug has already killed.... Do they really care about people's heath? I know that there is some positive studies publish out there, but still the negative ones seems to dominate in my searches. Is there any active, unbiased funded research ongoing on ecig? If there is demonstrated specific safety issues about vaping, vaping,what can you propose to make them safer?
"More research are needed"
- Thread starter Nimaz
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Hi Nimaz. This is a good read : https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...armful-than-tobacco-estimates-landmark-review
You might also look in the Health, Safety area, and Media sections of the forum. Just click on the red FORUMS in the upper left of every page.
You might also look in the Health, Safety area, and Media sections of the forum. Just click on the red FORUMS in the upper left of every page.
Thank you again for that link. The summary article is overwhelming on its own. I am going into the publications details. GB seems quite ahead of us (USA) on that matter. It is still frustrating that almost 50% of the GB population (including smokers) don't realize that e-cigarettes are much less harmful than smoking... More education is required and I strongly recommend to read these articles.
I am also interested in the biochemical, cellular and physiological effects of vaping or e juices. The limited studies on that topic seem to point some Flavors as potential source of toxicity. For instance, in the paper that I quoted, it seems that they only used flavored e juices with or without nicotine, from one supplier. For the sake of scientific rigorousness, I pretty sure that they used unflavored e juices, with or without nicotine in their experiences, but choose not to show the data. Without nicotine and flavor the juices certainly have no effects on Endothelial lung cells, which would have defeated the title's claim. The devil is in the details... I am sure that many are ahead of me on that issue. Do we have available a classification of vendors and ejuices products based on their safety/purity profiles? At best, I can switch to un-flavored juices but the taste is quite a great part of the pleasure in vaping.
Dr. Farsalinos' site is a good place from some solid information: http://www.ecigarette-research.org/research/
As well as the Media & News forum, where you will find a lot of current articles being discussed (both good and bad ones) https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/forums/media-and-general-news.629/
Hope you find those links useful and happy reading
As well as the Media & News forum, where you will find a lot of current articles being discussed (both good and bad ones) https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/forums/media-and-general-news.629/
Hope you find those links useful and happy reading
Great! Thank you.Dr. Farsalinos' site is a good place from some solid information: http://www.ecigarette-research.org/research/
As well as the Media & News forum, where you will find a lot of current articles being discussed (both good and bad ones) https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/forums/media-and-general-news.629/
Hope you find those links useful and happy reading
Nimaz, I have heard some say that the unflavored juices are quite good and actually remind them of tobacco. Not quite sure as I've never tried them myself. Ginger
Hello and welcome to the forum @Nimaz. Glad to have you here!
What are Diacetyl, Acetyl Propionyl and Acetoin?
No, but many juice vendors are posting on their site whether their juice contains any "bad actors". The flavoring manufacturers are doing this as well.
What are Diacetyl, Acetyl Propionyl and Acetoin?
Honestly this one of those deals where I have heard vaping is 1000 times less harmful than a cig. No one is smoking 1000 cigs in one day or perhaps 1000 vapes worth. So I say screw it. And vape on. It's the better option no doubt. If I find its that bad I'll quit it too if need be
I'll give it a try on my next purchase. I feel a bit weird to debate about such details after smoking for decades... It's not that I am much worry about vaping as I can see, feel and read the benefits of switching. Also, I am encouraging my entourage to switch, so I better educate myself because I am facing some heavy resistance. Also, I used to work as a scientist for the company that makes Chantix... Guess what? They fired me after I came back from sick leave to treat a smoking related disease... I've been struggling to stop analogs since then, until I started vaping. Now I feel better than ever, disease free, running like a rabbit, swimming like a dolphin and motivated to convince my people to switch.
Great links! The dots are now connecting in my brain. Some of these videos gave me straight answers to questions that I was asking myself. I am quite new at vaping and gad that some good folks have already taken the fight ahead. Apparently, the vaping revolution, if I may call it that way, in addition to the benefits that smokers who switched find into it, reveals the truth about politics and corporations who claim to care about our health. Thank you!
The devil is in the details, and is spreading distrust.. that's for sure. Almost every study I have seen on Ecigs are blatantly biased. Taking things to extreme to produce some sort of harm. I would like to see a research based on unflavored ejuice. Just USPS VG, PG, and Nicotine. Neither of these have been shown to be carcinogenic. It's the flavoring that causes most of the findings. Most findings I bet were based on tobacco based flavors, which the process of making a "tobacco extract" will leech those harmful chemicals to the final flavoring. Then there's the Acrolein found in some custards. But start with the basics, PG, VG, and Nicotine, and base any results from the findings.
I have learned to distrust media since I started actually paying attention to how they write. I was very skeptical at first when I first saw an ecig. For years, the guy in the BLU stand, puffing away.. I thought it was just a gimmick for the "fashionable" and something on the lines of "look, my ecig glows blue.. aren't I cool" sort of a thing. I never took it seriously. For years it was like that. then I started to see more and more Blu stands popping up. Then Njoy, and finally at supermarkets, and such. When I bought my first cigalike, it was for $20, and I figued.. heck, it has an orange light instead of a blue one.. let's see what it's about. I tried it, and the first night, I found it tasted pretty good. It helped temporarily curb the sensation. That's when I got REAL serious about doing research. I saw reports that said stuff like "you're smoking antifreeze", and did my research to find out WHY they would say that. I went the extra step that most people don't, and found the truth.. Propylene glycol is sometimes used as an antifreeze, because they wanted a safe chemical that wouldn't harm anyone.
Now, the more I look, the more I see.. The media isn't about reporting truths, they're reporting about what sells. Nobody will buy a paper, magazine, or watch a special bulletin about Mary walking her dog, unless the dog misbehaves and frightens a child. Editors won't publish stories about what a politician orders for breakfast in the morning, but will jump at the story if he looks down the waitresses shirt as she's handing him the plate.... Boring and normal studies of "all is ok" do not sell. I've even seen them post stories based on false doctors claims just to be the first to report it. I now look at the media with a highly suspicious eye.
I wish they would do more research,and officially post papers on their findings. TRUE HONEST RESEARCH. do unflavored ejuice with nicotine, vaped at normal levels, and post the findings and be done with it.
I am so glad that I posted this first thread! First, many of you confirmed my original suspicions regarding many articles that I am reading on vaping. Second, I got a good load of resources to look into. Third, I am starting to understand that the vaping phenomena is going far beyond the benefits that smokers found in switching to vaping. It's a social phenomena taking full advantages of the digital revolution, giving us, people, more power to independently gather for a common good cause. Digging out the truth from the lies, the lies from apparent truth, from a question to many possible answers and accessible resources in no time. I am also skeptical about media because they often fail to inform without bias. I am fluent in French, English and Spanish and read the news from different countries on a daily basis. Often though, I end up in Youtube or forums like this one to hear what are people's opinions on topics of interest until I can set my mind, at least for a little while. Thank you all for your responses.
Relatively new at vaping, I will definitively search in more details to choose my eliquid. I am using tobacco flavor right now... My gear is pretty basic too. Vision Spinner II seems to do the job so far @4.8V but I am thinking of a more compact device with the same power.
I think the research being done like everything else being researched, has to have funding to go on. It seems whomever provides these funds to pay for said research has an agenda. They can pull out facts out as they please to fortify their agenda, no matter what the real results are.
These giant companies (in any segment or product) will do or say whatever it takes to keep making money. Seen the movie, Thank You For Smoking? I'm not saying all that is real, but I doubt it's far off. If you pay some people enough money, they will do or say whatever they need to keep the cash rolling in and keep their job. I would like to see some real facts about all this. We KNOW cigs are bad for us. Everyone knows. Big money is the ONLY reason they are still around. Like many of you, I am new to this vaping game and I wonder if it really is safe. I see the videos of HUGE vapor clouds being blown and the race for ever more powerful setups and just can't see how that extreme can be good in the long run. Anything taken to extremes can't be good. Just my take on things. Not trying to bash anyone; just want a few more answers as I delve into the world of vaping.
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These giant companies (in any segment or product) will do or say whatever it takes to keep making money. Seen the movie, Thank You For Smoking? I'm not saying all that is real, but I doubt it's far off. If you pay some people enough money, they will do or say whatever they need to keep the cash rolling in and keep their job. I would like to see some real facts about all this. We KNOW cigs are bad for us. Everyone knows. Big money is the ONLY reason they are still around. Like many of you, I am new to this vaping game and I wonder if it really is safe. I see the videos of HUGE vapor clouds being blown and the race for ever more powerful setups and just can't see how that extreme can be good in the long run. Anything taken to extremes can't be good. Just my take on things. Not trying to bash anyone; just want a few more answers as I delve into the world of vaping.
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I haven't seen the movie but heard about it. I may watch it, but I am just a bit afraid to get depressed after watching it because I've been a part of that game for so many years. Vaping seems to be a functional getaway to end the insane pastern many smokers are into. Almost $300 for Chantix, with a marketing strategy involving coupons, saving, coverage by "most insurances" and minimizing the health hazards of the drug, which has killed hundreds already. From the tobacco companies selling their very addictive and deadly products to the pharmaceutical companies selling drug products to stop smoking, the medical industry, and the politics in the middle collecting massive tax profits from both ends... on the head of people, smokers more specifically. The numbers are staggering! Vaping is taking a lot of smokers away from cigarettes including myself and it's not a tobacco product nor a medical device, so both ends are progressively loosing big money, including the ones in the middle. The links provided above by DreamWithin and Susan-S are really informative. Honestly, after smoking for so many years, I am not much worry about the safety of the vaping products but quite pleased by the benefits they provide. At least, research funded with our money by our governments, such as the NIH, should not benefit the large corporations but rather the people. Things may get better as we go along the road, thanks to the good folks who are taking the fight ahead. Vaping, a game changer! The only blockade for further progress that I can see so far is a massive disinformation... The technology of vaping devices is progressing at a very fat paste, becoming more ergonomic and adjustable for individual needs. Not even thinking about cigarettes any longer is my primary goal, and so far, vaping is just working.
It's an interesting paper. Here is a link (to moderators: it is not junk science):
http://ajplung.physiology.org/content/309/2/L175.long
The most interesting part for me is:
Although further studies are needed to determine the usual levels of absorbed e-Cig vapor that are harmful to human lung health, our results in primary human and murine lung endothelial cells and in animal models indicate they are dose related.
So we have finally see statement that damage done by vaping is "dose related" By the way anything is doing damage to a living creature, but vapers should be aware that too high doses are not good.
The worst part - they found acrolein in both vapor and juice. It seems impossible to me. Or some very special juice? Indiana, you know...
If you have not joined CAASA (it's free) I recommend you do. Also sign-up for their "Calls to Action" for your state (if you are located in the US).
Here's a global thread that was just posted by ECF founder @SmokeyJoe: Big News Coming out of the FDA
Here's a global thread that was just posted by ECF founder @SmokeyJoe: Big News Coming out of the FDA
I found it interesting too. The effect of nicotine on lung endothelial cells are clear cut. I have problems with the results on ecig. They are pretty limited and sketchy. The cellular results on ecig w/o nicotine are only shown on figure 2 and table 2. Fig 2A, one Nic free vapor show no significant differences in TER values and the other ecig has poor effects at the edge of significance (see standard error bars, p<0.05). Fig 2C, 64ul volume of vapor is quite a high volume to add in cells were cultured on a small gold electrode (10−4 cm2). No effects with 32 ul added... No dose effects there. All other results added in that figure can be attributed to nicotine, redundant of Fig 1 results. Worse, table 2 shows no significant difference in immune cells/inflammatory cells infiltration. No p values (significance) are reported, which is misleading and actually shows that ecig has no effects at all... The ecig metabolism data on figure 4C can be fully attributed to nicotine, again redundant results... Altogether, the results with ecig w/o nicotine show rather modest to no effects on lung endotheliale cells... The dose effect on lung cells of nicotine is clear, however, the heath implications remain somehow too be shown, from my understanding. In contrast with the suggestions of the first blog that I read about this paper, I rather get my nicotine from vapor than cigarettes.
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