Need a bit of help here...what am I doing wrong???

[timastyle]

I am relatively new to vaping and I got a Sigelei Zmax V5 a couple days ago to replace the ego c twist I had been using. With the ego, I was using PT2 and MT3S tanks without any issues. Both tanks have a 2.5 ohm heads and I would vape between 3.8-4.2v without any issues or burnt tastes. Now along with the Zmax, I also got a Davide tank (currently has a 2.1 ohm head) to try out because I read good things about it.

Now since I've been using the Zmax, I have had it on VW setting and have experimented with higher wattage and it seems like anything I do above 7-8W, I'm getting a constant burnt taste with all of the tanks. As with when I smoked analogs, I like to have a long hard draw when vaping. I noticed that in the higher wattages, with short draws, there's not much of an issue with a burnt taste, but with the long draws is when I get it. Even when I have it in the lower wattage settings, the vapor production is good, but the taste is very muted (currently vaping Flavorz by Joe XTC Red and Blueberry Waffles at 50/50) with little to no TH.

At first I was thinking that there may be added stress on the coils as they are 2.5 ohm and 2.1 ohm resistance, but being that I'm setting the wattage, this shouldn't be the case. I see others posting that their sweet spot being in the 9-11+W depending on the juice and blend, but I can't come anywhere close to that.

My understanding also is that you need more power (i.e. wattage) to get better flavor, which would also explain the muted flavors. I'm sure there's a bit of user error that's involved, but anything you can do to help me in the right direction will be greatly appreciated.

 

[J Teezy]

this interest me as well. You see all these videos and people talking about vaping on coils sub ohm or they they vape at high watts or high volts and whenever i try that I get the burnt taste as well. I'm wondering if they are really getting good flavor or just like to say "hey I'm vaping this at 15watts! just because they like to use big numbers. I'm a flavor chaser not cloud chaser. I want great flavor over cloud size. I use clearos such as iclear 16 and 30s and the Aspire Nautilus. Nautilus heads are 1.6 or 1.8 ohm and the iclears are 2.0ish. I find myself in the 3.8 to 4.2 volt range to get decent flavor. When i start going above 4.2 it taste more and more burnt. This whole issue is important to me in understanding the correlation to flavor as that's what I'm after and I'm wanting to by a mech mod (nemesis clone) and use these clearos with their prefab heads and want to know if I'm going to get good flavor from these since I do not have a rebuildable yet (which seems that everyone who uses a mech uses rebuildables and go a lot lower on their ohms with their coils. Are they getting good flavor doing this? or simply going after bigger vapor clouds?). I'm considering getting into rebuildables by purchasing a KFL+ since majority of people seem to say it produces great flavor, but will it produce great flavor if you build coils around the 1.6 - 2.0 ohm range and fire it on a mech or a VV/VW device?

 

[timastyle]

Hopefully someone with much more experience will weigh in on this and provide some clarification for us. Until then, how are you liking the i30S and Nautilus? I'm looking for a good tank out of the box as I don't see myself modifying them in the near future. I'm looking for something with good flavor and great cloud. I guess you can say I want the best of both worlds. I've been tempted to try the i30B as I hear this provides what I'm looking for out of the box and my local B&M has it. I heard that the Nautilus is great except the heads are a little unpredictable from Aspire which makes me have reservations.

 

[Jonathan Tittle]

The general rule of thumb is higher resistance, lower voltage/wattage; lower resistance, higher voltage/wattage.

That said, more power doesn't equate to more flavor in all cases. You have to find a happy medium that satisfies you. For me, if I'm running a higher resistance coil, I generally vape at 10-12 watts (10w being more common). Not everyone will be happy with 10w, which is the best thing about VW and VV devices, you can adjust to taste. If 10w seems to high for you, adjust down. If it's not enough, adjust up.

When it comes to video reviewers doing reviews, you have to consider many of them are vaping off their own coil builds. Very few of them run stock coils as they've found building their own to produce better vapor and flavor than what stock coils can offer.

It also depends on the juice/liquid. Not all liquids are going to vape the same at 10w. The darker the juice, the more prone to burning as those types are much harder on the coils, which leads to gunking which leads to burning of the gunk and a burnt flavor. The lighter the liquid, the easier on the coils and generally, the higher the wattage or voltage you can run.


With all that in mind, your draw also effects what you get. Hard draws dry the wick out faster and can prevent the wick from being able to keep up with absorption of your liquid. I'd recommend doing a longer, lighter draw instead of a shorter hard draw to see if that helps improve the issues you're facing. Since vaping isn't smoking and you're not inhaling off a filter, you don't need to pull as hard as you would on a cig. The faster you dry the wick out, the faster you're going to get a burnt flavor.

 

[timastyle]

Thanks Tactical! It seems to me though that you're running a higher resistance coil with a relatively high wattage (at least to me). What type of liquid are you using and at what blend? As stated, I can't come close to those numbers without getting a burnt taste. I do tend to chain vape when actually vaping (I do 5-10 consecutive draws as I can't vape at my leisure at work), which also makes the tanks really warm. I'm wondering if I'm not giving it sufficient time for the liquid to be absorbed by the wicks.

Any recommendations of tanks/heads/liquids that may help resolve this problem for me?

 

[J Teezy]

Hopefully someone with much more experience will weigh in on this and provide some clarification for us. Until then, how are you liking the i30S and Nautilus? I'm looking for a good tank out of the box as I don't see myself modifying them in the near future. I'm looking for something with good flavor and great cloud. I guess you can say I want the best of both worlds. I've been tempted to try the i30B as I hear this provides what I'm looking for out of the box and my local B&M has it. I heard that the Nautilus is great except the heads are a little unpredictable from Aspire which makes me have reservations.

I had the 30b before the nautilus. First juice i put in it cracked it within an hour. Was Key Lime pie from velvet vapors 100% vg. I sent the tank back to where i bought it from and decided I need a glass tank. So i went with the nautilus. I like it. Pretty much my go to tank for the flavor i vape the most and I use the iclear 16's for other flavors that I want to hit on occassionally. The 30s was nice too but I only used one flavor with it and havent used it since I got the nautilus as i don't need two bigger tanks filled with juice. I'm actually looking to sell the 30s as it's just sitting around not being used.

 

[SirSteve]

Tactical nailed it pretty good, and remember no one watt/volt setting works for everyone, even with the same setup. Set you device where it works best for you. And don't put so much stock in the clouds reviewers blow, they know the tricks, and some those tricks include lighting and camera angle.

 

[timastyle]

Thanks J Teezy! I may give the Nautilus a try as well.

SirSteve - While I get the point that you and Tactical are making in that difference settings work best for different people and the juices they use, I'm curious why I'm getting a burnt taste at levels where people find as their sweet spot. I could understand it if it hit too harsh and provided discomfort for me say at 10w, but when I'm consistently getting a burnt taste, it makes me think I'm doing something wrong.

I was just vaping and even got a burnt hit 5 draws into it at 7w which has been good with my FBJ XTC Red flavor I've been using now for a few days. I also replaced the coil last night to an unused one thinking it may have been the old coil that was causing the burnt taste, but I'm still getting it.

 

[SirSteve]

Not sure about the V5, but earlier Zmaxes had a no 8 option on the menu, if the V5 has that make sure it set to RMS. Mean is know to cause problems with overpowering. Other than that, hard,long, frequent draws like Tactical stated can overwhelm the wicking leading to no juice on the coils which will cause a burnt taste.

7 watts should not cause a burnt taste, you are right, with luck someone will come along and be able to solve this for you. Best of luck, I'm off to work.

 

[timastyle]

I read about the RMS vs. Mean issue and was one of the first things I did when I got the Zmax (i.e. set it to RMS). It makes me wonder if a top coil system won't be better for hard, long, frequent draws ina short amount of time as the wicks are longer, therefore absorbing more liquid. All the setups I've been using have been bottom coil clearos, so I'm wondering if this is the culprit with the much shorter wicks.

Perhaps others can help shed some insight on this as well. Thanks for your input!

 

[J Teezy]

Maybe your juice is really thick on the wicks and gunking up? I find if I take some hits very frequently on an iclear 16 which is top coil the wicks dry quick and have to let it get soaked up again. But again like you mentioned I used them on a SVD that I had and on watts above 10 and volts above 4.2 there was a great chance it was going to taste burnt which again puzzles me on how people vape at high watts and volts and say they get great flavor

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

 

[timastyle]

J - The FBJ juice I'm using seems a bit thick. If I tilt the tank from side to side, I can see some juice on the glass as it slowly works it's way to the bottom. The only other juice I've tried has been the Maya with a 80/20 blend. The added PG seemed to irritate my throat though. I also have a Pink Spot Gummy Bear flavor with higher nicotine than I normally use. The acidic flavor also irritates my throat although it's not as thick. Any suggestions on good liquids?

 

[J Teezy]

J - The FBJ juice I'm using seems a bit thick. If I tilt the tank from side to side, I can see some juice on the glass as it slowly works it's way to the bottom. The only other juice I've tried has been the Maya with a 80/20 blend. The added PG seemed to irritate my throat though. I also have a Pink Spot Gummy Bear flavor with higher nicotine than I normally use. The acidic flavor also irritates my throat although it's not as thick. Any suggestions on good liquids?

I'm like you, my first bottle of juice was NicQuid Peach Lemonade at 12mg nic. I found it dried my throat out and I relate this to either the nic and/or PG. My second bottle was Melon Champagne in 6mg nic by Perfected Vapes. It didn't dry me out as bad. Now I'm using some Space Jam Pluto with 0 nic and it seems to not mess with my throat. Now here's the other thing. I bought these at Alt Smoke and tried them all out in store before buying. Now the their samples all have nic in them 12-18mg i believe it is. Now the melon and space jame didn't taste like they did at the store. Maybe it's in my head or something but I'm going to make an assumption that the nicotine helps hold flavor (i could be totally wrong here). I also had a sampler pack of juice from velvet vapors of 100% VG juices. They had flavor to them but to me it seemed the flavors were a tad bit light (I need a strong flavor). So, my next juice I think is going to be Jamisons Peaches n Cream (tasted it at alt smoke and liked it) but its expensive. I'll have to go back there and try it again as the first thing i try when i walk in (i tend to sample a lot there and feel my taste gets messed up due to the mass amounts of flavor tasting in a quick time). But again, their samples have nic, so the test will be to see if 0 nic taste the same as what they have out to sample. I'm also tempted to try out some juice from MBV and maybe use a VG PG blend with an extra flavor shot in the juices.

 

[Jonathan Tittle]

I vape anywhere from .4 ohms to 1.8 ohms, but never above or below (personal preference). I vape on Protank 2's, an IGO-L, a Kayfun 3.1 Clone and an Octopus. I actually just put a stock coil in my Protank 2 (2 ohms) and it's working beautifully, but the Protank heads are really hit or miss. Some swear by them, some will fill 5-10 pages of a thread with how many issues they have with them and how much they hate them. They same, honestly, can be said with any stock coil. They are all mass produced and very few, barring the niche companies that do make theirs or source them, are 100% trouble free. I wish that wasn't the case, trust me!

On the Protank 2 I max out at 10 watts for 1.4-1.8 ohm coils. That's me though. Sometimes I will go as low as 9, but that's the lowest and 11 is the highest. On the Kayfun 3.1 clone, being a rebuildable, I do micro-coils, which can tolerate much higher power levels, so 12-15 is about where I stand there, but the coil is always lower than 1.4 ohms (i.e. .8 - 1.2 max).

The IGO-L, another rebuildable, is where I do my sub-ohm'ing. I run the .4, .5, and .8 ohms primarily on this cheap little deck. It's a single coil deck and it works wonderfully. Vapor is good and flavor is as good as the coil I put in there.


That said, me personally, I like the Protank 2's and the MTS3's. They were what I first transitioned to after years of using "crap" (i.e. gas station cig-a-likes). They work perfectly, but here's a few things.


1). 9-12w on a 2.5 ohm coil is most likely way too high. I would be starting at 6w and moving as high as 8w, max. They higher you go, the less power you really need to get things going. Higher ohms also equates to a cooler vape because the coil takes a few seconds to properly heat up and less time to cool down since the kanthal is probably 31-32 gauge.

2). 31-32 gauge kanthal is tiny, so forcing it to heat up at voltages or wattages meant for lower resistance (and thicker) coils is going to burn your wick up and fry the juice, regardless of whether it's light or dark. Fried juice tastes just as bad as burnt juice.

3). Throat Hit & Flavor on the Protank 2, MTS3's and other similar tanks are going to be muted. It's simply the way these tanks work. I went from those to an IGO-L and my eyes opened wide. There's that much of a difference. That's not to sway you to rebuilding (and if you do, please do your homework before doing it - just for safety), but if you even have a chance to compare, you'll see what I mean by muted.

4). The eGO batteries run at 3.7v, which is more like 3.3-3.4 under load (i.e. when firing the atty on your tank), so you're not really vaping at 3.7v. When you transition to something such as a VV/VW device and try to exceed what you were using, you run the risk of burning things up.


The best advice I can give you is to start low and vape your way up. Go down to 5w, vape. Go to 5.5w, vape, go to 6w, vape etc. This will allow you to find the sweet spot. If you start high, you may not be able to go down because the coil could snap (too much heat) or you may gunk your wick beyond what dry burning and soaking will help.

Toss out what reviews say and vape what works for you. People like GrimmGreen and PBusardo, people I respect and watch, have found their own style. For some, it's just slapping it on and vaping, for others it's tweaking and tuning. The tanks you have work, you just have to find out how they work best for you .

Thanks Tactical! It seems to me though that you're running a higher resistance coil with a relatively high wattage (at least to me). What type of liquid are you using and at what blend? As stated, I can't come close to those numbers without getting a burnt taste. I do tend to chain vape when actually vaping (I do 5-10 consecutive draws as I can't vape at my leisure at work), which also makes the tanks really warm. I'm wondering if I'm not giving it sufficient time for the liquid to be absorbed by the wicks.

Any recommendations of tanks/heads/liquids that may help resolve this problem for me?

 

[Gato del Jugo]

Not sure about the V5, but earlier Zmaxes had a no 8 option on the menu, if the V5 has that make sure it set to RMS. Mean is know to cause problems with overpowering.

Seconded.

Go to option 8 and make sure it's at RMS..


Edit: I see you already did that.. but you might want to double-check just in case

 

[timastyle]

Thanks Tactical! That post was very informative and makes more sense. I changed juices tonight to a FBJ Caramel Apple and I got up to 8w without any issues although I could sense it getting burnt on longer draws. 7-7.5w seems to work great with this one. I may get some higher resistance coils and see if they change things any. I do like a cooler vape though so I'm not sure how successful it will be. Perhaps I can get a 2.2ohm and work down if needed.

If it means anything, when I set my settings to display resistance on the lcd display, it said 2.9ohm so I'm assuming it may have also had to do with the burnt taste and not so high wattage. Goes in line with your description of thinner coils and frying the coils.

Gato - I did double check and it's on RMS. I checked when SirSteve first suggested it.

 

[Jonathan Tittle]

To start off, I'd recommend drawing light, much like you would to drink a soda. If you're drawing hard, like, as an example, you're trying to force a cold milkshake through a straw, that's way too hard. The only way you'll get away with that is with what most term wide open air flow.

Stock coils and the Protank/MT3S/Other tanks aren't made for that style of vaping. They naturally have smaller, tighter air holes which are far more reduced in size than what most use for hard drags/pulls/vaping. You also have to consider that the wicks in the Protank style coils are small, very small. No RBA/RDA or rebuildable uses a wick that small, so it'll naturally dry out 5-10x faster than a wick on a coil that was built by hand for an atty.

When it comes to the coils in general, I've not seen any Protank/MT3S heads that read 2.9 ohms unless you're buying 3 ohm coils. If you're seeing 2.9 on a 2.2 or 2.5 ohm coil (check the etching on the coil head to verify), there's probably a short in it somewhere which could mean they're either fakes and low-quality builds (it does happen, a lot) or it's simply a bad head from the factory (that happens too). I'd pull it and use another and see what it reads.


If you plan on vaping in the 2-3 ohm range, lower wattages are going to be your friend. I wouldn't venture above 8w, but that's my own experience, so as above, take it with a grain of salt because your vaping style may be quite different than my own .

If you can handle a little warmer vape (not too warm, but just a tad), I'd really consider aiming for 1.6-1.8 ohms. That stays in the ranges your VV/VW can handle and you should be able to get up to 9-10 watts on those, if that's where you really want to be. As above, I would still start low - at 7 watts for these, and move up.

I find that lower resistances allow me to do shorter pulls, which make up for the longer pulls since they're more concentrated and fuller, so that may be something you want to try too. Just a recommendation.

 

[edyle]

Try 6 watts.

People who have experience vaping and doing their own coils and wicking are going to have special builds and juices and power up 10 watts and make it all sound casual but that would not be the norm.

 

[timastyle]

Tactical - Thanks again for the thorough explanations. This is really helping me understand things. I did check the resistance again and now it says 2.6ohm which is more in line with the 2.5 etched on the head. It's really not important to me to be able to vape at higher wattage. I'd much prefer a consistent vape with good flavor.

The reason I thought about trying higher wattage is that I haven't tried it to date so I don't know what if anything I'm missing out on from my vape experience. The only coils I've tried so far are the 2.5 in the PT2 tank. The Davide has a 2.1 currently in it but I was getting a burnt taste with it as well. The tank also came with a 1.8 coil head so I may put that in and see if I can get to higher wattage and what my preference is.

Edyle - I've been doing it at 7w with the new juice without any issues all evening. When I tried 5.5-6w, the flavor was considerably less. I'm good for.now at least with the caramel apple flavor.