Need tips for a Regulated Mod Build

[NealBJr]

So compared to a dual coil with 0.2ohms a quad coil @ 0.2ohms would heat up faster and cool down faster, thus making my mod less hot compared to a dual cool @ 0.2ohms?did i get that right? Would it produce same vapour tho? And would a quad coil use more juice? Or just the same as the dual coil?

Lol.. I just woke up from a nap... honest, I am not on the forum 24/7.

Assuming they were the same type of coils, probably yes. There are many factors that go into coil building, so the answer isn't as straight forward as it seems. Deck and chamber size has a big role to play in it as well as airflow amount and placement. If the airflow is not setup to to allow for quad coils, then you might not get the airflow over two coils, allowing two of the coils to get hotter than usual. Type of coils matter as well. Clapton coils give the coils more surface area.

The only thing I can say, is play around with different types of builds in your atomizer to find what's best for you. There's just so many factors when it comes to building coils to balance flavor, vapor, and heat to your liking. It's like learning to drive; you can study all you want, and it gets you a general idea of what's going on, but the only way to truly understand is to put it to practice.

 

[Cedric Marcelino]

In general

Dual Coil = More Flavor /w decent cloud production due to how the wire to wicking surface contact area is distributed <- flavor king setup
Quad Coil = More Cloud /w decent flavor production due to how the wire to wicking surface contact area is more than a dual coil <- cloud king setup with an emphasis on battery efficiency or battery efficiency decrease
Triple Coil = A balance of the two

It all boils down to the surface area (wicking to wire contact) that determines how much juice is vaporized, without dropping off the cloud/flavor gain versus the battery power efficiency needed edge, the four best build types are still single coil, dual coil, quad coil, or triple coil, going further you tail spin downward on that efficiency to power needed threshold. Every extra parallel wire you add to the coil circuit divides the resistance by that many wires if all wires are equal length, 1 ohm single coil, 0.5ohm dual coil (2x 1ohm coils 1/2 = 0.5ohm), 0.25 ohm Quad Coil (4x 1ohm coils 1/4 = 0.25ohm). A quad coil on a regulated mod you adjust for that resistance splitting by adding more wraps to each coil or moving to using a thinner wire. Being you are wanting to produce less heat into the mod, then the thinner wire setup is what you are looking for, example 0.2ohm using thicker 24awg wire in a dual coil, for a quad coil to reach that same 0.2ohm using thinner 26awg or 28awg wire using the same number of wraps per coil of the 24awg dual coil build, thus less mass to the wires as a whole = less radiating heat disipation (heats up and cools down quicker).

As far as juice consumption, yes a quad coil is going to guzzle 2x the amount of juice a dual coil does due to 2x the number of coils to feed. Understanding what you are really wanting to achieve, cloud and flavor production vs. juice consumption vs. battery efficiency vs. a whole host of other variables is a balancing act everyone has to deal with and decide for themselves which has more priority over others.

Thank you for your answer bro! All, if not all, most of my questions are already answered by this reply! Sending some love from the Philippines! Thanks!

 

[Cedric Marcelino]

Lol.. I just woke up from a nap... honest, I am not on the forum 24/7.

Assuming they were the same type of coils, probably yes. There are many factors that go into coil building, so the answer isn't as straight forward as it seems. Deck and chamber size has a big role to play in it as well as airflow amount and placement. If the airflow is not setup to to allow for quad coils, then you might not get the airflow over two coils, allowing two of the coils to get hotter than usual. Type of coils matter as well. Clapton coils give the coils more surface area.

The only thing I can say, is play around with different types of builds in your atomizer to find what's best for you. There's just so many factors when it comes to building coils to balance flavor, vapor, and heat to your liking. It's like learning to drive; you can study all you want, and it gets you a general idea of what's going on, but the only way to truly understand is to put it to practice.

Thankyou thankyou! I might drop clapton coils for now. I have a 24g Kanthal here right now, what do you suggest i build with it? Besides the basic 8 loops dual coil. I am passing on quad coils right now, so any suggestion on how many wraps i should do or should i do parallel wire?

 

[NealBJr]

Thankyou thankyou! I might drop clapton coils for now. I have a 24g Kanthal here right now, what do you suggest i build with it? Besides the basic 8 loops dual coil. I am passing on quad coils right now, so any suggestion on how many wraps i should do or should i do parallel wire?

Dual coils should be fine. 24 gauge is fine. Since your mod is restricted to 120W, try a simple dual coil setup around a 2.5mm post. Vape it, and tell me how it could be better. take pictures.

 

[Cedric Marcelino]

Dual coils should be fine. 24 gauge is fine. Since your mod is restricted to 120W, try a simple dual coil setup around a 2.5mm post. Vape it, and tell me how it could be better. take pictures.

How many loops for the coil?

 

[Joakim Langborg]

Test it with maybe 10 wraps (for each coil) and try it between 60-80w or 6 wraps between 50-60w and you can go higher wattages, this just some baselines.

Sent from my Lenovo TAB 2 A10-70F using Tapatalk

 

[Coastal Cowboy]

Now, knowing that, how does the resistance affect the battery.. well, the lower the resistance, the more power it would take to heat up the coil, and thus, lower the battery life. What range resistance should you use? Well, that's up to your personal choice... thicker wire gives more heat, and lower ohms with usually higher vapor production. Higher ohms gives less heat, and usually less vapor production but extend the battery life. I use mainly regulated mods, but I do have some mech mods to play with. With todays wattages, a regulated mod generally has more potential than a mech mod. You can't supply 6 volts to a coil on a single battery mech mod, but you can with a regulated mod.

Now, why does your mod get hotter on lower resistance builds.. well, that's because there's more metal in there to heat up, and it takes longer for that metal to cool back down. BUT, that usually means more clouds. If you want more clouds but cooler vape, try thinner wire, but more coils.

This is not quite correct. It's not the resistance of the wire in the coil alone that requires more power. It's both the mass of the coil assembly itself (wicking material plus wire) and the resistance of the metal.

If you were to look at the older 1.5 Ohm Protank/Evod coil compared to the xOCC coil for the newer Kanger tanks (just using Kanger as a same-brand comparison) you'll see an order of magnitude difference in the physical sizes of the two units.

Deliver 40 watts to the older, smaller coil and the thing will likely melt. Deliver 40 watts to the xOCC and you'll get the start of a nice vape. The much larger chamber and chimney of the newer Kanger tank, combined with the much larger mass and surface area of the wicking material the xOCC has and with the massive increase in airflow the tank and coil allows, and the more able you are to vaporize such larger amounts of liquid.

I hope I got that right... phys therapy was a cast iron ..... today and I need a nap.

 

[Cedric Marcelino]

Hey guys thanks for the answer. I sold my tesla and bought a ncv2 thread so this thread is not an issue anymore. Thank you guys! I managed to get the kind if vape i want with my ncv2 right now. Current build on my ncv2 is Dual coil, parallel coil kanthal 0.5, 3mm guide, 6 wraps. Im on parallel circuit with my batts, and what i got is cool vapor with dense vapor, my batts are vtc4. Don't worry i researched my ohms law and battery safeties, both parallel circuits and series.

I just have a question in mind tho, why does a parallel circuit gives off a cool vape compared to a series circuit that gives a warmer vape and more throat hit, though even they are on the same wattage. I tried a build of 0.28ohms i think its alien wire? I'm not sure but it's pretty thick, it comes with the atty i bought from another person. And it gave me a very warm vape @ maybe 3v (i used series regulated) on this one, and it produced about 10amps and 32w bases on ohms law. Then I built my current build which is a Parallel Coil, Kanthal 0.5,3mm guide 6 wraps, and based on the Vape Tool app, it should be at around 0.14ohms to 0.17ohms and i vape this build at 4.2v. But it gave me a cooler vape and dense vapour, dont get me wrong it's what I want on a Build, i just want to know why does my current build gave off a much cooler vape even i am vaping at a lower ohms and a higher voltage compared to the previous build i mentioned.

Thank you again guys!

And if someone will point out why i dont use an ohm reader on my current build, don't worry i will be going out later to buy one. The 0.28ohms build i checked it on my friend's regulated mod. But my current build is just an estimate based on Vape Tool app.

 

[IMFire3605]

Hey guys thanks for the answer. I sold my tesla and bought a ncv2 thread so this thread is not an issue anymore. Thank you guys! I managed to get the kind if vape i want with my ncv2 right now. Current build on my ncv2 is Dual coil, parallel coil kanthal 0.5, 3mm guide, 6 wraps. Im on parallel circuit with my batts, and what i got is cool vapor with dense vapor, my batts are vtc4. Don't worry i researched my ohms law and battery safeties, both parallel circuits and series.

I just have a question in mind tho, why does a parallel circuit gives off a cool vape compared to a series circuit that gives a warmer vape and more throat hit, though even they are on the same wattage. I tried a build of 0.28ohms i think its alien wire? I'm not sure but it's pretty thick, it comes with the atty i bought from another person. And it gave me a very warm vape @ maybe 3v (i used series regulated) on this one, and it produced about 10amps and 32w bases on ohms law. Then I built my current build which is a Parallel Coil, Kanthal 0.5,3mm guide 6 wraps, and based on the Vape Tool app, it should be at around 0.14ohms to 0.17ohms and i vape this build at 4.2v. But it gave me a cooler vape and dense vapour, dont get me wrong it's what I want on a Build, i just want to know why does my current build gave off a much cooler vape even i am vaping at a lower ohms and a higher voltage compared to the previous build i mentioned.

Thank you again guys!

And if someone will point out why i dont use an ohm reader on my current build, don't worry i will be going out later to buy one. The 0.28ohms build i checked it on my friend's regulated mod. But my current build is just an estimate based on Vape Tool app.

If we are talking parallel vs series battery configurations, this is assuming Mechanical/Unregulated...

Parallel Batteries = Voltage of a single battery, yet the load is balanced between both batteries in theory, so Mah of a single battery X number of batteries, CDR of a single battery X number of batteries, but I always tell people with a parallel battery config to assume battery 1 = 100% of a single battery, battery 2 = +50% more CDR, so those Sony VTC4 as example you have total 4.2v fresh charge of a single battery to about 3.5 or 3.6v for low charge, 4200mah (2100mah X 2), being 23amps CDR batteries we get total CDR of 34.5amps total load, battery 1 23amps, battery 2 +11.5 amps

Series Battery Config = In this setup, you get Voltage X Number of batteries, yet are limited to the Mah and CDR of a single battery, again using your VTC4's, we get voltage range of 8.4v highest (4.2v X 2) to 7.2v lowest (3.6v X 2), 2100mah and 23amps CDR.

So as you see with a series, 2X the voltage = 2x the potential wattage output, be very careful on such a Mech/Unregulated device, lowest, safest build suggested for Parallel mod is 0.1 to 0.15, never ask more than 50% max CDR of you batteries all the time on Mech/Unregulated, heavy abuse of max CDR cooks them and kills them 30, 60, even 90 days down the road they could only be 50% of new CDR, on a Series, lowest safest build is about 0.55 to 0.6ohms, using Ohms Law of Voltage/Resistance (Ohms) = Max Amps

Parallel
4.2v/0.14ohms=30amps <- About Ideal almost 15amps per battery being requested
4.2v/0.1ohms=42amps <-Dangerous with your VTC4's

Series
8.4v/0.55ohms=15.2727amps <-About Ideal, 15amps both batteries must support
8.4v/0.25ohms=33.6amps <- Dangerous with any 18650 out there.

 

[Cedric Marcelino]

If we are talking parallel vs series battery configurations, this is assuming Mechanical/Unregulated...

Parallel Batteries = Voltage of a single battery, yet the load is balanced between both batteries in theory, so Mah of a single battery X number of batteries, CDR of a single battery X number of batteries, but I always tell people with a parallel battery config to assume battery 1 = 100% of a single battery, battery 2 = +50% more CDR, so those Sony VTC4 as example you have total 4.2v fresh charge of a single battery to about 3.5 or 3.6v for low charge, 4200mah (2100mah X 2), being 23amps CDR batteries we get total CDR of 34.5amps total load, battery 1 23amps, battery 2 +11.5 amps

Series Battery Config = In this setup, you get Voltage X Number of batteries, yet are limited to the Mah and CDR of a single battery, again using your VTC4's, we get voltage range of 8.4v highest (4.2v X 2) to 7.2v lowest (3.6v X 2), 2100mah and 23amps CDR.

So as you see with a series, 2X the voltage = 2x the potential wattage output, be very careful on such a Mech/Unregulated device, lowest, safest build suggested for Parallel mod is 0.1 to 0.15, never ask more than 50% max CDR of you batteries all the time on Mech/Unregulated, heavy abuse of max CDR cooks them and kills them 30, 60, even 90 days down the road they could only be 50% of new CDR, on a Series, lowest safest build is about 0.55 to 0.6ohms, using Ohms Law of Voltage/Resistance (Ohms) = Max Amps

Parallel
4.2v/0.14ohms=30amps <- About Ideal almost 15amps per battery being requested
4.2v/0.1ohms=42amps <-Dangerous with your VTC4's

Series
8.4v/0.55ohms=15.2727amps <-About Ideal, 15amps both batteries must support
8.4v/0.25ohms=33.6amps <- Dangerous with any 18650 out there.

Thanks for additional info bro. But my main question is. Why does a parallel give off a cooler vape compared to a series, assuming they are on the same wattage

 

[IMFire3605]

If it is a regulated mod, then it could be a couple factors.

Could be the Tesla 120 used a straight DC to DC converter, so thus without a "Bucking Circuit" in the control board, the mod was just giving what the batteries had, example full charge with 2 batteries that would be about 8.4v and decreasing down to about 3.0 to 3.2v per battery (6 to 6.4v) that is a lot of wattage on a 0.3ohm coil, what a bucking circuit does is shunt any excess voltage than what is needed to reach a set wattage setting into the control board.

The Parallel mod, being 4.2v is max available, probably has a "Boosting Circuit", which works in the opposite way, mod reads it needs more than available battery voltage, it kicks the booster in, which then draws extra amps out of the batteries, converts those to raw volts, and shunts those converted volts into the voltage/wattage signal to the coils.

Some mods can have a Pulse Width Modulator Chip (PWM), not all PWM chips are the same, some use Mean Squared PWM, while the more accurate mods will use Root Mean Squared (RMS) PWM. The Tesla could be using flat MS PWM, where the new mod could be using RMS PWM. There are so many variables to determine between differences in mods, from the control boards, what type of circuitry they have, how their firmware software is programmed, its like comparing Apples to Apples, but what are we talking, one mod is a sweet and juicy Red Delicious Apple while the next mod could be a sweet but tart Granny Smith green Apple. It is like comparing a mod with an Evolv DNA 166/200 Control board next to a Yihi SX350J Control Board, they both get the job done, one has more or better bells and whistles where the other just gets the job done with similar or exact features but programmed differently to reach those features.

 

[Cedric Marcelino]

Im talking about my noisycricket v2 tho. Sorry if I had you confused for a moment

 

[IMFire3605]

with the NC V2, the difference is in the voltage available, believe the NC V2 uses a potentiometer coupled with a basic PWM Chip on top of its switching of modes, parallel or series, similar in fashion to the HexOhm V1 and V2, where the HexOhm doesn't have the parallel to series switch. More potential voltage available (in series) compared to lower voltage available (in parallel). 50% of 8.4v is 4.2v (series), where 50% of 4.2v is 2.1v (parallel).

Remember

Parallel = Voltage X 1 Battery with mah and CDR of X number of batteries
Series = Voltage X Number of Batteries, man and CDR of X 1 battery.

0.5ohm coil
Series at full voltage 100% on Potentiometer 8.4v
Output is 16.8amps and 141.12watts

Series at full voltage 50% on the Potentiometer 4.2v
Output is 8.4amps and 35.28watts

0.5ohm coil
Parallel at full voltage 100% on the Potentiometer 4.2v
Output is 8.4amps and 35.28watts

0.5ohm coil
Parallel at full voltage 50% on the Potentiometer 2.1v
Output is 4.2amps and 8.82watts

Ohm's law | Steam Engine | free vaping calculators <- Ohms Law Calculator, Steam Engine is a great bookmark to have, on top of the Ohm's Law Calculator it has a great set of vaping tools, even a coil build simulator, might want to check it out and play around with it a bit.