New enthusiastic DIY'er confused...

[rvbarton]

Hi everyone! Thanks for allowing me to join your forums. I've been reading for hours and have found a ton of useful information, but am confused about some basic items:

1. When you talk PG/VG ratio, you are referring to the types of liquid being used, I get that. But where I am confused is what if you purchased all VG liquid? I can't seem to wrap my head around how to mix this with my nicotine juice to accomplish anything palatable...

I've received my first order from Flavor west:
items ordered:

• Strawberry
• Black cherry
• Peach tobacco
• Cheesecake
• Bavarian cream
• bourbon
• graham cracker
• sweetener

I also ordered my mixers from XtremeVaping:
items ordered:

• 125ml VG
• 50mg VG based nicotine juice

So the first thing I tried to do was use a ejuice calculator to determine what mixes I should try, to achieve a 12mg -18mg nicotine level in my first juice.

Being the frugal minded individual I am, I used a 10ml bottle, in an attempt to make a Black Cherry Bourbon liquid, using the following recipe:

6ml VG
1.5 ml nic
1 ml black cherry
.5 ml bourbon
.5 sweetener

If I'm correct, I should be between the 12mg - 18mg nicotine level, and the juice should be 100% VG based, but the juice doesn't taste like how I felt it should. It tastes more like "old lady perfume", than anything worth vaping on.

Any help or guidance would be GREATLY appreciated...

Have a great day !!

 

[xxJollyRogerxx]

That is one of the things with DIY you have to find a vendor that has a flavoring that you do like. Not all flavorings are created equal. A lot of flavors will have a candy / fake taste to them or some just don't taste right to you. Others may rave about the flavoring and you buy it, mix it and ... can't stand it. Happens with everyone all the time.
Now with that being said, you will also find that by mixing some of the flavors they are awesome. I had a banana and a strawberry that i didn't like on their own but when i found the right % mix for them ... viola .. my new ADV. I call it Banaberry
You just gotta get your hands dirty and see what you can create for yourself.

But 12-18 is a big range. the calculator should give you precise amounts

 

[keonee]

When mixing flavors together they need some steep time.

As stated above you should be able to hit your target for Nicotine.

Maybe you should just try the black cherry and see if you like it. It only needs a day or 2 to steep. I make quite a few 1 flavor e-liquids ( fruits ) including the Black Cherry. Sometimes I mix the stand alone fruits together in my tank and am really impressed with the tuity fruity flavors.

Good Luck to You!!!

 

[dannyv45]

Thats 10% black cherry, 5% bourbon, 5% sweetener. That seems a bit to much. Over flavoring can result in a perfume taste or no taste at all or a very muted taste. Most black cherries I've tasted are very concentrated and require far less. To much sweetener can have the reverse effect by muting the primary flavor and mask the sweetness.

I would have done the receipe as follows

2- 3 % black cherry
1% bourbon
half a percent sweetener should only be added if needed. Taste it first before adding.

You can always add more but it is far more difficult to reduce taste by diluting. You can try diluting what you have by 3 parts base to 1 part mix. and see if that helps.

You are also using an All VG mix so you need to add some amount of distilled water to the mix (5 - 10%) to thin it. VG by nature is a thick liquid thats a poor carrier of flavor as compared to PG and needs more time for flavors to flow through and mix with the VG. Adding water then warming the solution for 15 minutes in temperature no hotter then 150F and shaking every 5 minutes or so will help better combine all ingredients. Adding distilled water will also allow for better wicking in your devices producing better vapor reproduction and a more prominent flavor. Some steeping time may be required. Those flavors may need 1 or 2 days to mature.

For more information read the following.

Read my blogs

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/dannyv45/

then read hoosier's blogs.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/hoosier/

then read the stickies at the top of the page.

this will explain a lot of the how's and why's.

 

[Rat2chat2]

to ecf rvbarton and to the fun world of mixing. It is a hobby in every sense of the word. Trial and error for sure. You have received good suggestions and thank goodness for all the threads about DIY on ecf. YouTube has even bee beneficial to me. Good luck to you and I look forward to reading about your juice successes. Have fun with it.

 

[rvbarton]

Thanks everyone for your tips! I'm excited to get home and start again.

 

[williebb123]

you also have several other flavors to try other than black cherry , cherry has been my nemesis , if you have read several hours of post here im sure you have come across that cherry is one of the hardest flavs to get right , so before you go and shoot yourself in the foot and start pulling your hair out may i suggest bavarian cream , cheese cake or strawberry to wet your whistle and get that ego pumped back up , nothing worse than jumping into a boxing ring only to get knocked out by the first punch , but on the up side we do have danny and or hoosier in our corner with the smelling salts

 

[rvbarton]

Thanks for the support willie! For some reason last night, the black cherry & bourbon sounded quite tasty! I'm going to try a single flavor tonight, just to see how it goes.

from what I've read, one shouldn't use more than 10% of the mix for flavoring. would that be 10% for each flavor (i.e. 10% cheesecake/10%strawberry) or 10% total (i.e. 6% cheesecake, 3% strawberry, 1% graham cracker...)

Thoughts?

 

[michaelsil1]

Thanks for the support willie! For some reason last night, the black cherry & bourbon sounded quite tasty! I'm going to try a single flavor tonight, just to see how it goes.

from what I've read, one shouldn't use more than 10% of the mix for flavoring. would that be 10% for each flavor (i.e. 10% cheesecake/10%strawberry) or 10% total (i.e. 6% cheesecake, 3% strawberry, 1% graham cracker...)

Thoughts?

I think the recommended for FW is 5-10% (total flavor)

 

[dannyv45]

Thanks for the support willie! For some reason last night, the black cherry & bourbon sounded quite tasty! I'm going to try a single flavor tonight, just to see how it goes.

from what I've read, one shouldn't use more than 10% of the mix for flavoring. would that be 10% for each flavor (i.e. 10% cheesecake/10%strawberry) or 10% total (i.e. 6% cheesecake, 3% strawberry, 1% graham cracker...)

Thoughts?

Just like cooking there are no set rules for how much ingrediance or in our case flavoring to add. It all goes by taste. The rule is start with the lowest recommended amount and work up. STart with 3 test batches and if the lowest recommended amount is 3% do 1 batch at 3% one batch at 5% on batch at 7% mix it then taste it, select the best tasting then after it has sat a few days adjust it.

 

[rvbarton]

Thanks! Good advice!

 

[williebb123]

yeah what danny said.....lol , if you go too far with the flavor it will taste like less or perfume , my super concentrates are 3-5% but ive got some capellas at 15-20% at single flavs but my multi mixes of 4 flavs may go to 35% total flavor , just something to think about so take your time, when i first started i still bought online juice until i had like 4 all day vapes and 4-5 that were good but still needed adjustment

 

[rvbarton]

Well, I tried again last night. This time I was trying to make a 8ml bottle and used 4ml VG (no nic), .7ml 50mg VG Nic, 2ml Bourbon (Flavor West), and .5ml Bavarian cream. I also add 2 drops of Stolichnaya Vodka to thin the VG out.

Tasted like flowers after shaking it for 30 minutes to mix. I'm letting it steep for a couple of days, but am not optimisitic.

I'm wondering if I need to do a PG/VG mix? I ordered a bottle of PG and it should be here tomorrow. We'll see...

 

[dannyv45]

Well, I tried again last night. This time I was trying to make a 8ml bottle and used 4ml VG (no nic), .7ml 50mg VG Nic, 2ml Bourbon (Flavor West), and .5ml Bavarian cream. I also add 2 drops of Stolichnaya Vodka to thin the VG out.

Tasted like flowers after shaking it for 30 minutes to mix. I'm letting it steep for a couple of days, but am not optimisitic.

I'm wondering if I need to do a PG/VG mix? I ordered a bottle of PG and it should be here tomorrow. We'll see...

Your using to much flavoring 2ml Bourbon = 20% bourbon wow that's a lot for a 10ml mix. I think your getting ML's mixed up with percentage. The bourbon should have only been like .2 ml (2%) not 2ml (20%). The cream if doing 1% should be like .1 (1%) or like 2 or 3 drops and not .5ml (5%)

It's all a learning process and this is how you learn so keep at it.

 

[Steve K]

Also it seems that 10ml is a lot to do testing new recipes as I only test with 3ml.

 

[rvbarton]

Your using to much flavoring 2ml Bourbon = 20% bourbon wow that's a lot for a 10ml mix. I think your getting ML's mixed up with percentage. The bourbon should have only been like .2 ml (2%) not 2ml (20%). The cream if doing 1% should be like .1 (1%) or like 2 or 3 drops and not .5ml (5%)

It's all a learning process and this is how you learn so keep at it.

Thank you! Thank you for clarifying. I am getting my percentages mixed up. I'm trying to figure out how this works. The way you stated it makes more sense, so that is my next step. I'm trying to figure out the difference between percentages and ML's. Until your comment, I was using the logic as in 100% = 60% or 60 ml for mix, 10% = 10ml flavor. I thought it very odd when I the calculator I was using told me to put 1.7ml of 50mg nic juice in a 10ml container. Seemed very strong, so I cut that down by more than half...

Very confusing.

 

[rvbarton]

Also it seems that 8ml is a lot to do testing new recipes as I only test with 3ml.

good point. So, with 3ml, how do you break it up into percentages?

 

[Steve K]

I'm stuck on using an actual percentage calculator like this.
Percentage Calculator

Well if you put 3% of 3 in the calculator it says 0.09
3% flavor of 3ml = 0.09 ml

Are you using syringes???

Also keep in mind the flavoring is not added to the complete 3ml but a part of the 3ml.Just to put that out there.

 

[rvbarton]

I'm stuck on using an actual percentage calculator like this.
Percentage Calculator

Well if you put 3% of 3 in the calculated it says .009 = .009 ml

Okay... so if I'm making a 10ml bottle, and the flavor I'm using has a recommended usage of 20%, then 20% of 10ml is 2ml of flavoring? so I should use 2ml of flavor? that's what I've been doing I thought...

 

[Big_Jim]

Before you start doing multiple flavor recipes I'd recommend mixing up single flavor recipes to see where you like the flavor. I find I like the majority of my single flavor FW flavorings mixed at about 15%.

I would also recommend either breaking out the calculator and a scratch pad, or using one of the many juice calculators available.