New Hcigar Clones

[Vermonster13]

Your posting rate isn't completely average now is it.

You think there is a reason counterfeits aren't allowed to be sold here? Do a little thinking instead of being so defensive of your purchase choices and you'll get my points. I own some clones myself and you can tell the difference between them and the authentics when in hand in 99% of them! harder to do by pics, especially when many of the pics used on the "clone" sites are taken from the authentic sites.

 

[MrPlink]

How much "development" do you think goes into a mech mod?

You've got a tube, two end caps, an insulated contact pin on the top and bottom, and a button.

This isn't rocket science here, these are mech mods. Glorfied flashlights. They aren't difficult devices, and quite frankly, if what has been produced is the limits of their abilities then mod designers are pathetic and should find a new career. Buttons that don't work right, battery rattles, flimsy parts, top caps that don't fit some toppers, wild voltage variances, etc...

That gun was made in 1860, and you're telling me that here in 2014 with all of the modern equipment and engineering knowledge that we possess that a mech mod maker can't make a 100% reliable button? But they deserve $200+ for their efforts?

You show me a mech mod that is as complex and as well engineered as a Colt 1911 and I'll agree that it's worth the cost, but a $200 flashlight with a crappy button? Don't make me laugh.

This. Totally this.
Ive built things (including aforementioned firearms) FAR more complex than a mech mod (or even some vv models) so when I first became interested in mechs and APVs I scoffed and said I would simply build my own. Then I stumbled across the clones, knock offs, counterfits etc etc and decided that for less than 50 bones I would just buy one and not worry about a trip to the hardware store and firing up a mill.

The prices being asked for originals are the result of many things, but intense RnD and production expenses are not part of that equation.

 

[blueGrassTubb]

Whoa, I think that you misunderstand my personal position on this.

I have bought two clones - a caravela, and a nemesis. I have since bought one Nemisis, and just ordered the Nemi from Vaperev last night.

I have been looking for a Caravela for months.....dammit.

What I took issue with was the assertion that clones actually help the market. Clones help vapers, but they certainly don't help the makers of the originals.

Sure they are.

Cheaply priced clones force developers to do the next best thing and keep innovation going. It keeps them going. It's called competition, and it's never a bad thing for the economy.

My only issue is with trying to pass a clone off as an original.

 

[Chelonian]

Sure they are.

Cheaply priced clones force developers to do the next best thing and keep innovation going. It keeps them going. It's called competition, and it's never a bad thing for the economy.

My only issue is with trying to pass a clone off as an original.

Competition is great for the economy. Fruitful competition is found between companies such as Kayfun and Upper Class Technologies.

As for clones forcing innovation - I can't think of one product that companies such as EHPro and HCigar have brought to the market that made any producer of original products react in any way.

This fact is borne out in the market right now....Kayfun sells every unit it brings to the market, and has a waiting list for more. The million clones floating around out there certainly hasn't affected their price.

If anything, the fact that there is more demand for the product than there is supply would indicate that prices for originals should rise.....regardless of clones.

And I agree with you about the clones trying to pass themselves off as original. I just can't see where clones are beneficial to anything but our fellow vapers, and the makers of the clones.

 

[blueGrassTubb]

HCigar is a fantastic company that makes really nice quality clones.

In general I agree. They make very good copies.

But one thing I wish they would do is IMPROVE on the original design when there is room for it.

For instance, the Caravela is janky depending on what battery you use. The original tried to get around questionable design and manufacturing by providing several positive connection pins in order to compensate for battery differences. Some 18350 batteries simply won't fit while leaving seamless body and atomizer connections, while others rattle. If you don't have an atomizer with an adjustable pin (and many do not - and even those that do, such as the Kayfun, won't adjust short enough for the Caravela's liking) you're going to have a gap unless you have various pins in order to make a good connection (pins which Hcigar didn't see fit to include). What I would like to have seen Hcigar do is, rather than try and copy it as closely as possible, recognize the battery issue and engineer a way to fix it and make it better. They could have provided a spring loaded pin or a pin that was adjustable both on top where it meets with the atomizer and on the bottom where it contacts the battery. They could have provided us with a magnet switch rather than the mushy spring loaded fire button that oftentimes wobbles and has a throw the length of a football field. The essential design of the MOD would be exactly the same, only it would be a better product.

The Stingray has an equally egregious design flaw that was copied in to the clone. From what I have read, you can't screw the fire button all the way down because the tolerances are just too tight. In order to get your fire button to spin (so that it can be locked and unlocked) you need to twist the bottom button all the way in, then back out about a 1/2 a turn. There are no threads showing or anything like that, but surely there is a way they could have improved on that so that people like me don't have to search the internet up and down to find out how the hell to use a very simple device.

Not only could they then legitimately make the claim that their devices are, in some ways, better than the originals, but it would 1) adequately differentiate their clones from originals, and 2) provide MOD makers a technological reason for continuing to innovate rather than simply a financial one.

The Russian did this with the Kayfun, then again with the Kayfun Lite. The designer of the Russian 91% saw the Kayfun Lite, copied it almost exactly, except he added a bottom fill port and adjustable airflow. Svoemesto, in turn, improved the KFL and came out with the KFL+ which included these changes. Then they came out with the KFL+ v2, and made it even better. This is how innovation works. It'd be nice to see China innovating on these MOD designs rather than simply copying almost verbatim what is sometimes flawed engineering. The CHinese have shown they can innovate. A Chinese man INVENTED vaping, and there are some companies, like Sigelei, which are coming out with some very good, original products (Sigelei 20W).

When I bought a Caravela clone (and a Stingray clone and a Tree of Life clone and a 69 clone) I bought them because I thought they looked cool. I don't care about The Caravela so much that I'll cry if Hcigar would have departed from the original spring loaded button design and rather included a magnet button. What I wanted was a MOD that looked like the Caravela, and performed about as well. So long as they look the same people will continue to buy them, especially if they make marked improvements. This is what Chinese clone makers need to learn (at least the higher end clone manufacturers like Hcigar, EHPro, Infinite, etc).

 

[blueGrassTubb]

As for clones forcing innovation - I can't think of one product that companies such as EHPro and HCigar have brought to the market that made any producer of original products react in any way.

Sure they have. Look at the fierce battle between the Kayfun and the Russian. The Russian is a blatant knock-off of the Kayfun, only it added one small advantage, which forced the Kayfun to step up, which forced the Russian to further evolve . . .

The existence of cheap clones from China necessitate that MOD makers continue to innovate. They can't keep putting out the same designs in a differently etched tube and continue to prosper. They will have to push their designs even further in order to retain competitive advantage.

 

[ckim111]

Why is everyone making such a big deal about the Chinese making clones of Hana mods with same logos? They've done it with everything else from mechanical mods to rba, etc. This is nothing new to them so why the fuss now?

 

[blueGrassTubb]

Why is everyone making such a big deal about the Chinese making clones of Hana mods with same logos? They've done it with everything else from mechanical mods to rba, etc. This is nothing new to them so why the fuss now?

There seems to be a soft spot for Hana around here, for some reason. The real magic is in the chip. They want people to pay $300 for an aluminum box that holds the real prize. I understand that designing things (even simple aluminum boxes) takes time and money, and that machining them to spec does as well. But $300 is insane for an original Hana.

 

[Keynith]

And this thread has become another clone argument.


Sent From My Galaxy Note 3

 

[Keynith]

There seems to be a soft spot for Hana around here, for some reason. The real magic is in the chip. They want people to pay $300 for an aluminum box that holds the real prize. I understand that designing things (even simple aluminum boxes) takes time and money, and that machining them to spec does as well. But $300 is insane for an original Hana.

Actually the Hana cost 250

 

[dabears34]

At least someones shipping a mod with a Hana logo on it

 

[blueGrassTubb]

Actually the Hana cost 250

Okay.

$250 is insane for an original Hana.

 

[Bodog]

I have been very pleased with my nemesis from hcigar. Screw spending almost 200 dollars for a nemesis. Very easy for beginners in my opinion. Throw a IGO-W on top and your good to go.