New Member + A bone to pick with the community

[3Hunna]

Hi, I've been vaping for only 2 months now but have been considering vaping for over a year. I've learnt so much about vaping in the past 2 months, I've spent hours on learning how to build rebuildables, about electronics, ohms, watts, and enjoy making my little wish list of what gear I want. I am a social smoker but there was this one time I bought two decks to last me a holiday with friends. Never again. May not seem much to most people, but I just don't like the thought at the back of my head that I could be doing myself harm with the cigarettes.

I've been lurking this forum for a while but what I've noticed is something disturbing with new members.

I've posted this below on another thread in the new members section, but I wanted to address this problem (imo) in its own thread since it'll be less messier. Just a heads up just to let you guys know that I'm not trying to spam, I just want to get a view point across.

What sorta irks me is when people who are new to vaping but have never ever smoked an analog come to this forum but are told by other forum members not to start vaping on the basis that, for examples sake, "if it's anything but air, it shouldn't be in your lungs" or that, it's another habit in itself, it's a gateway to cigarettes, there's no point to vape if you haven't smoked cigarettes, we don't know what chemicals are in it or the long term effects.


Why is that? I read some guy on this very forum saying word for word "It took hundreds of years before the dangers of smoking became obvious." I guess we have a lot more advanced chemical analysis as well as scientific research, better health and safety standards as well as having these health and safety standards as well as research more open to the public compared to a hundred years ago. We understand PG does this, VG does that, tobacco extract has nitrosamines which is a carcinogen but I guess slightly burnt food, car fumes unintentionally breathed in, work environment, air we breathe as well as our exposure to EMF are putting us at higher risk of cancer, things that we didn't know years ago. We all have a risk of dying, yet why are some being unaware that we live in a different world where if new things come into existence that are a threat to our longevity, we instantly become aware of it and take action against it to the point of maddening paranoia (you'll be surprised at what things are claimed to cause cancer and how many times they occur everyday) and if vaping actually posed a risk for the years it has existed, where are vapings casualities and deaths, reports of disease, etc?


The point I'm making is that we should understand that vaping has become a lot more than a life-saving cigarette alternative. There is a culture, an aesthetic as well as a service to the people of the Philippines and China (and any other countries) that have made a profound affect on the vaping world such as the Kraken, Atomic RDA, Dekang, Hangsen, etc. We have hundreds of thousands, possibly millions of people vaping for whatever reason. It is their money that they're spending and to say they're "wasting" their money is purely subjective and it is their responsibility as to how they spend their money. Vaping is more than a cigarette alternative, it is a hobby and it is very clear based on some people's signatures on this forum.


I feel what vaping forums in general are about are to encourage people who want to vape to vape by preparing them with the knowledge and skills they need as well as discussion and development of the vaping community. We can teach them the importance of amps, caution them about sub-ohms, teach them how to mix their juices, just like you and I have learned. Because we already have the technology, media and education to understand that vaping is not as bad to the point where we ward people away from vaping. It's not to say that vaping doesn't have its caveats such as coughing, possibly alleriges, asthma, etc and when people face a problem with their own vaping journey they will most likely post about it here. If people want to vape, so be it. It'll stop them from going into cigarettes since vaping is such a rich, diverse, deep and educational experience with a lot more variables, a lot more people, a lot more support, a lot more to learn, etc.

I come from a Health & Fitness forum, complete opposite of what a vaping forum is for, I know people that have gotten sick (not just nauseous but an actual disease) from drinking too much milk, taking steroids, or have died because someone decided to be too over the top with their vitmains. There are inherent risks in every hobby and passion, we know we aren't in much risk and if we are, it's obviously going to give us the time to make a post about it, see a doctor or a few (some doctors are really just not that educated) and take action and that's what makes the difference between vaping risks, and other risks.

RiP Trippers motto is: "Smoking is dead, vaping is the future, and the future is now". Understand that smokers chose to be smokers not because they moved up from something, but because they wanted to. Why can't we say the same with vaping? It is the future right? It has saved lives and is continuing to save lives. Why should we be on the side to stop people from vaping when we should embrace it?

 

[thebanik]

Although you do make a point but all the bans on vaping is happening because the reason given by policy makers is that Kids are taking up to vaping simply for the cool factor and second is that, No we do not know about the complete effects of vaping. Any such scientific research would need 1000's of subjects under observation for years. And there are no multi-million company funding such a research.

 

[wv2win]

If someone on this forum told you that vaping is a "gateway" to smoking or we "don't know what is in it", that is a very sad example of some members on ECF.

A few years back, I commented to a non-smoker who was interested in vaping that I would not recommend it simply due to the cost and if they use nicotine in their eliquid, that they could develop a "dependence" to a degree on nicotine. My thinking was similar to caffeinated coffee. Why add a cost and a possible dependence that one doesn't currently have?

Some of us also feel we "walk a tightrope" when it comes to non-smokers delving into vaping. We don't want to be seen as encouraging vaping to everyone, as we view it as an activity that saved our lives from smoking.

But using ignorant "scare" tactics is wrong, IMO.

 

[zanedog]

I was smoking at 13 years of age lol, we used to grab a cigarette from a certain teachers pack and share it in shop class. They were menthols lol I wish i had the opportunity back then to take up vaping.I don't care who vapes, if someone who doesn't smoke wishes to start vaping, is it my business?

 

[szot]

If you don't smoke analogs, I wouldn't recommend vaping as a new "hobby" to anybody...there are too many unknowns still...I would recommend a hobby that doesn't involve ingesting anything into your body..I do feel that vaping is better than smoking analogs and a great alternative, but wouldn't encourage a non smoker to vape for a new hobby..and would definitely discourage it for the unknown factor..but I wouldn't fabricate stories and tell untruths..

 

[Chakthi]

I pretty much agree with you. If someone wants to spend their money on vaping equipment, and wants to take the chance of becoming dependent on nicotine, that's their business. Personally, given the choice of smoking or vaping, vaping is without a doubt the safer of the two. Unfortuantely, as others here have already stated, politicians in particular seem to have a fear of non-smokers picking up vape gear and using it. Why? Because (I believe) vapor looks very much like smoke, and nowadays smoking has a very serious stigma associated with it. At this point, I tend to think it's in our best interest as a community to embrace the idea that we don't approve of non-smokers vaping. Not necessarily because it's true, but because the future of our beloved hobby, and the one thing that is keeping most of us, including myself, from smoking is at stake. I will be glad when all the legislation is drawn up and over with. Not that's it's ever really over with, but at least the "newness" will have worn off with lawmakers.

 

[Rob0506]

People start smoking all the time. If they start vaping instead, it's still better. This is the kind of thing that is ignored in the few studies that have been done. They will ask high school students if they've used a PV in the last 60 days, but won't ask if they regularly smoked efore that or if they would have tried a cigarette instead.

People will start from nothing and start vaping. People will start from nothing and start drinking. Whether that becomes a problem is yet to be seen, but most will discourage non smokers from vaping simply to try to blunt the argument that vaping is a gateway to cigarettes.

 

[Coelli]

I think if someone is an adult, they can make the decision for themselves.

I haven't smoked in 14 years (smoked a PAD or more from age 13 to almost 30). I was so quickly hooked that by the time I was 15 my mom bought me a carton of cigarettes a week because she'd rather do that than wonder where I was getting the money for them (or continue to steal hers!).

I took up vaping a few months ago because of the flavorings and because even though I was in no danger of smoking another analog ever again, I *liked* smoking. I just hated everything that came along with it.

My boyfriend has been an on-again-off-again smoker since he was a teen. He hadn't smoked in a couple of years but when I said "I think I might be interested in vaping" I barely had the sentence out before he was like "Okay, let's go!". So we both jumped in feet first and have a genuine love for vaping now.

My brother (47 this year) has never smoked but got into it recently independently from us. He called me yesterday because he was so excited about building a microcoil but didn't have anyone else to share it with. He lives with my mom.

My mom will be 80 this year and has smoked since she was 15. Die-hard smoker, no desire to quit, angry at all the restrictions on smoking, offended when I wouldn't bring my daughter (who has asthma triggered by cigarette smoke) to her house, or when I said she would have a better chance of selling her condo if she stopped smoking inside... well, after her kids started vaping, she's starting now. I sent my brother a bunch of 0 and 6mg juice and my old Spinner. She stole the Spinner and all of the nic juice and wouldn't give the Spinner back until she bought her own; but after trying my boyfriend's Provari when he visited she bought a Smoketech SID, a Protank 2, and a bunch of juice she likes.

So it's not just the non-smokers who are being influenced by the smokers. I am over the moon that my mom would start to vape after 65 years of smoking. She may never quit analogs entirely but who knows? She's certainly interested enough to start on the path...

Anyway, as adults we are able to make our own decisions. Yes, there is a lot of fear out there about normalizing smoking. But perhaps we should be looking at it as normalizing VAPING and concentrate efforts on that...?

 

[jd1978]

I vape for one reason only, because I'm addicted to nicotine. I would not encourage anyone to pick up neither vaping nore smoking. Its not my business what anyone does, nor do I really care, but if asked, I wouldn't recommend either vices. If someone just wants to blow money and just toy around with a no nic setup then so be it.

 

[supertrunker]

Simple: Cigarettes are harmful and bad for you - 6m a year die as a result of smoking them. I used them.

Vaping is less harmful than cigarettes but nobody knows for sure how much less. 100 - 1000 times less maybe. I use that now.

Never smoked but it looks cool to vape? Just don't use nicotine; why risk an addiction you don't already have and most smokers are trying to leave?

T

 

[spk99]

Just live and let live. Ok cliche I know but ....well we all know what opinions are like.

 

[Amraann]

I do not believe that any one here has ever said that vaping is a gateway to analogs. That is something that those opposed to vaping say.

Personally I think that people start vaping much in the way that most of us starting smoking analogs. I do not have a problem is someone starts vaping even if they never smoked analogs. In my mind if the option to start vaping was not available then they very likely would have started smoking analogs.

 

[MikeNice81]

Although you do make a point but all the bans on vaping is happening because the reason given by policy makers is that Kids are taking up to vaping simply for the cool factor and second is that, No we do not know about the complete effects of vaping. Any such scientific research would need 1000's of subjects under observation for years. And there are no multi-million company funding such a research.

Kids take up millions of things simply for the cool factor. I much rather it be vaping than a cigarette, coke, or alcohol. Alcohol is starting to be linked to throat cancer.

Overall, alcohol consumption is one of the top 10 contributors to sickness and death from injuries, motor vehicle crashes, homicides and suicides, sexual assaults, sexually transmitted infections from unsafe sex, falls, birth defects, depression, disorders of the gastrointestinal tract, and sleep disorders.

Additionally, there is a lot of evidence that drinking alcohol increases the risk of several cancers. In 2007, a working group of experts convened by the World Health Organization's International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) reviewed the scientific evidence on alcohol and cancer risk for 27 different anatomic sites. They found sufficient evidence that alcohol drinking is a cause of cancers of the mouth, pharynx, larynx, esophagus, liver, colon, rectum, and female breast. And for cancers of the mouth, larynx, and esophagus, when people drink and use tobacco, the risks are combined to be greater than either tobacco use or alcohol use alone!

Does drinking alcohol increase the risk of cancer?

We may not know all of the effects, but so far it is looking much better than alternative vices. As long as there are kids growing up there will be kids experimenting. The more stress we place on them with "hot box" education methods, helicopter parents, and media, the more they will search for alternatives. You can't stop that. This rallying call of "its for the kids" is a cover for paranoia, lost revenue, and lobbying interest. Guess who sponsored NC's new proposed laws to limit on-line sales. . . Big Tobacco companies.

 

[InTheShade]

What sorta irks me is when people who are new to vaping but have never ever smoked an analog come to this forum but are told by other forum members not to start vaping on the basis that, for examples sake, "if it's anything but air, it shouldn't be in your lungs" or that, it's another habit in itself, it's a gateway to cigarettes, there's no point to vape if you haven't smoked cigarettes, we don't know what chemicals are in it or the long term effects.

Personally I've never seen anyone here say that vaping is a gateway to cigarettes, I'm not saying that it's never been posted, but I would say that it is a minority opinion here on ECF and one that I don't see.

As for the rest of your post, the simple truth is that the long or even medium term effects of vaping on the body are just not known. I would not feel comfortable telling someone who is a non-smoker to take up an activity when I am not 100% sure it is safe.

Now do I believe vaping is safer than cigarettes? Yes, of course I do.

So therefore for me, recommending vaping as a way to reduce harm for smokers is OK, but as a hobby - no.

 

[Frenchfry1942]

Whenever I talk about vaping and its benefits, I include the subject of nicotine levels. I think it is great that there are 0-nic users. More numbers is more lobbying power. Adults only, of course.

 

[CalamityJess]

I've been here since...January or February, and not once have I seen anyone try to push a new member who wanted to quit smoking away from vaping. I've seen tons of advice, tons of support, and tons of tech help however. In fact the only time I've seen anyone say don't waste your money were instances of people thinking about buying sub-par equipment. However, it only makes sense that they'd tell a non nicotine dependent non smoker non dipper to stay away from it. First because why start an addiction that's (my doctor's words) as hard to break as hard core drugs? My own doctor compared it to ...... and ..... Second, non smokers starting vaping gives more ammunition to the politicians trying to shut down vaping by using the "gateway" argument. Do. Not. Want.

 

[supertrunker]

Whenever I talk about vaping and its benefits, I include the subject of nicotine levels. I think it is great that there are 0-nic users. More numbers is more lobbying power. Adults only, of course.

But if they are coming from cigarette usage to 0, then everyone would be applauding. If they are non-smokers to begin with, then it's rather different!

Sooner or later some smart SOB is going to realise a gate works both ways and vaping is not a gateway into cigarettes but an alternative to even starting them.

A safer one.

T

 

[Rickajho]

New Member + A bone to pick with the community

Oh jeez - now what have we done.

Are you sure you have the right forum?

I have seen occasional debates on here regarding whether it's a good idea for non smokers to start vaping. But "it's a gateway to cigarettes" Here? Really?

Look, in the broadest sense most of us here are coming at this from the view point of harm reduction. As in: We know what long term smoking does to you. We can assume vaping is a less harmful alternative and in this regard it's a better alternative to smoking for people who couldn't quit smoking otherwise. I personally would not be vaping if it wasn't for the fact that I started smoking, did it for 30 years, and found no other effective way to quit.

But it is a bit of a stretch to suggest that everyone should be doing it, just because they can. To a smoker who wants to or needs to quit, vaping has a potential benefit. Where is the benefit to a non smoker looking to have a poops and giggles party and see if they can get a few thousand hits on YouBooB bcuz they are a whiz at exhaling vapor in front of a contrasting surface? In other words, since you brought it up - yeah, what is the point to that?

We can say at this point that vaping exchanged for smoking is harm reduction. But to say it is harmless? I would hardly say we have crossed that line measured either by research - which is sadly lacking - or length of use. The hey day of e-cig use in the USA isn't even a decade old.

 

[supertrunker]

hey Rick - i can cloud chase with the best of them!

until the mrs tells me off!

T

 

[Elizabeth Baldwin]

Sure a lot of us turn our habit into a fun hobby. However, the majority of us were once hard core smokers for many years. Vaping is much less harmful than cigarettes but saying there's zero harm after decades of vaping may be a long stretch. We don't know. So why would we advocate it as just a new hobby for a person who has never smoked? We are already under scrutiny and may be taxed to high heaven. I would never advise anyone to pick up a habit that may eventually cause any sort of harm or addiction. Will vaping cause any harm? who knows! What i do know is its less harmful than cigarettes. Also, I'd never tell an adult not to do it. If an adult decides they want to Vape then that's their business.

Our goal is to keep vaping as a community without high taxes and gear/nic/liquid being hard to buy. If we advocate vaping as a hobby for people who never smoked we would get quoted in the next article. We don't need that.