So, you really don't know what science is. That does explain much.
New study: vaping no more toxic than breathing air
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So, you really don't know what science is. That does explain much.
Nope. I have No Clue what Science is for You.
Please. Do Explain it. I'm sure there are Others who would Love to hear your Opinion Also.
Would you like links to what science is? Do you need a lesson in how to use Google?
Just your admission is good enough for what I was looking for as takeaway from this discussion.
PG boils at about 360 to 380 F. VG boils at about 540 to 560?
water above 212F is not vapor,its steam. steam is an invisible
gas. there is no vapor reaching above 212 F. the water vaporizes
atomizing the base mix before that happens. the more heat the faster
the vapor production and thus the volume over time verses area the heat is applied.
anything else you need to know,ask me.
regards
mike
Your responses keep either outright stating or using loaded questions to imply that there is nothing to take from this study because it doesn't speak to ALL eCig/eLiquid use. I can cite several posts where you have raised questions / doubts about the study based on trolling type questions that you feel are unanswered, and which are outside the scope of this study. Would you like me to cite them via quotes or post numbers?
Please do Quote the Complete Posts.
If you feel this Study has Answered All of you Questions about e-Cigarettes and e-Liquids than I think that is Special.
And if you Think Asking Questions about Studies is Trolling, well, then I guess you Read a Lot of Trolling on the Internet. That is, If you Read Studies.
Straw Man
And, do you really think it is reasonable to insist that the study answer All of your Questions about e-Cigarettes and e-Liquids ? Has any single study, in the history of man, ever answered every question about a broader subject?
When you resort to 180 straw man tactics and demand totally unreasonable things, some people may just accuse you of trolling.
No, I Don't.
But I would At Least like people to Consider the Limitations of this Study. And the Position with regards to Regulations that the Tobacco Company that Funded this study holds.
And Possible Refrain from Thinking that "vaping no more toxic than breathing air".
"No, I Don't."
Then why is it necessary to ask the question as a Straw Man after Jman8 already addressed that? You did not address any reasonable limitations of the study. You just wanted to argue for its worthlessness based on your personal criteria. And you continue to do so.
You've made it very clear that you give no credence to the study merely due to the source. Personally I think one post to that effect would have been enough. You are entitled to your opinion but I'm not sure you are entitled to then dominate the thread, repeating the same things over and over. You are trying to justify a merely personal opinion by defending it over and over. And yea, at some point it becomes trolling because at some point this thread was destroyed. I for one would rather see a discussion of the available evidence but there seems to be no room for that.
I will not respond further. I just wanted to make it clear that Jman isn't the only one here concerned with trolling and thread disruption.
I think you are Reading more into things than were Intended. And are Using words like "Worthless" or "No Credence" that I never used.
I've said what I wanted to say. I think that the Study has Limitations. And I see Clear Financial Conflicts of Interest.
If people want the Take away from this Study that it Proves that Vaping is Without Risk. Great. They are More than Entitled to their Opinion.
I have a very different take on this study that I don't think has been addressed yet. I think BAT was throwing down a political gauntlet to the scientific community, somewhere along the lines of "I dare you to reproduce this and publish"
Many people here find the results incredulous, or nearly so. But really, it's sort of a Duh moment if you have a handle on the components of vape juice and their histories...
PG has long been used in the medical industry as a "base" for various inhalers, and I think they even fog rooms with it? Now, it stands to reason that before the medical industry started using that as an (FDA approved) inhalation vehicle, that much study was done on possible toxicity. No one may have done quite the same study BAT did using the particular tissue cultures but one way or the other PG must have been determined to be quite safe.
VG has long been used as "Disco smoke" and we can certainly expect that OSHA and whoever looked closely at the possible toxicity issues related to inhalation and I am confident that VG is known, as an absolute fact, to the best of the ability of real science, to be quite benign when inhaled.
BAT, and BT in general, has been doing 100 years of research into Nicotine. So surely they know it is benign. We know it, but we also know of the "conspiracy" to equate Nicotine with smoking, and etc, etc, ad nauseum. But at the end of the day, inhaled nicotine is quite safe and everyone knows it even though the PTB refuse to quite acknowledge that.
So that leaves just whatever flavorings BAT used (or might have used). And despite the few protestations to the contrary here, no one is ever going to unravel the mysteries of all the hundreds of flavorings we use now. But surely BAT, in the normal course of their research into the eCig market, has at least informally studied the flavor issue, to the extent they felt they would test well. The only people surprised are the people here that are convinced (via propaganda) that their "must be something unsafe with these eCigs".
So aside from flavoring issues, really the results of this study are not any more interesting or surprising than a study indicating well filtered spring water is safe to drink.
But the politics that the vaping industry is faced with, and that includes BT to the extent they want to be players, demands that gauntlet be thrown. Otherwise no one would study it because they won't like the answer that everyone knows will come out of any study such as this. Vaping really is safe.
Many people here find the results incredulous, or nearly so. But really, it's sort of a Duh moment if you have a handle on the components of vape juice and their histories...
PG has long been used in the medical industry as a "base" for various inhalers, and I think they even fog rooms with it? Now, it stands to reason that before the medical industry started using that as an (FDA approved) inhalation vehicle, that much study was done on possible toxicity. No one may have done quite the same study BAT did using the particular tissue cultures but one way or the other PG must have been determined to be quite safe.
VG has long been used as "Disco smoke" and we can certainly expect that OSHA and whoever looked closely at the possible toxicity issues related to inhalation and I am confident that VG is known, as an absolute fact, to the best of the ability of real science, to be quite benign when inhaled.
BAT, and BT in general, has been doing 100 years of research into Nicotine. So surely they know it is benign. We know it, but we also know of the "conspiracy" to equate Nicotine with smoking, and etc, etc, ad nauseum. But at the end of the day, inhaled nicotine is quite safe and everyone knows it even though the PTB refuse to quite acknowledge that.
So that leaves just whatever flavorings BAT used (or might have used). And despite the few protestations to the contrary here, no one is ever going to unravel the mysteries of all the hundreds of flavorings we use now. But surely BAT, in the normal course of their research into the eCig market, has at least informally studied the flavor issue, to the extent they felt they would test well. The only people surprised are the people here that are convinced (via propaganda) that their "must be something unsafe with these eCigs".
So aside from flavoring issues, really the results of this study are not any more interesting or surprising than a study indicating well filtered spring water is safe to drink.
But the politics that the vaping industry is faced with, and that includes BT to the extent they want to be players, demands that gauntlet be thrown. Otherwise no one would study it because they won't like the answer that everyone knows will come out of any study such as this. Vaping really is safe.
PG isn't heated and inhaled in inhalers. Just because something is a medication, doesn't mean it is safe, it just isn't as bad as the disease. PG is not pumped into ventilation systems; a study was done, but there is no evidence it is practiced. There are guidelines for working around fog machines and exposure limits...
More straw man arguments. I didn't say that just because it is FDA approved it is 100% safe. What I said is that this stuff has all been studied to death, in terms of inhalation, not just ingestion. And not by BT, but by "general science".
You can choose to disregard all these studies if you so desire. I choose to go with the studies. And I suggest that BAT is familiar with all these studies (plus whatever they've done privately) and no one should be surprised with the results, except perhaps those like yourself that choose to deny the evidence.
The FACTS are that it would be hugely surprising if any of this stuff, other than the flavorings, turned up positive for toxicity.
The power of propaganda...
we have considered the limitations of the study.
the study is good.
what more do you want?
do you want us to admit to things that are just not there
to please your aesthetics?
if you have a problem with the study,please share your
concerns with us.
regards
mike
It is the lack of any long term vaping studies which is why some politicians are against e-nic...
I just read a new thread about someone complaining about throat and lung irritation from vaping. Guess that's propaganda, as well...
This assertion strikes me as more naive than thinking the results of this study were not crafted to get the results that the funders wanted. Like way more naive.
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