Hey guys, my name is Mike. I am from Philly and I am new to the vaping Community! I have an Eleaf 50w istick and a Reuleaux RX200.. On the istick I have the regular Arctic Sub Ohm tank, while on my RX200 I have a MutationX V4s rda with a dual clapton build reading at around 0.2 ohms.. Now I have been told by my local vape shop that I cannot use below 70% VG in my Arctic sub ohm tank. The guy said any lower and it will be too thin and will be too harsh. But why is this exactly. Why are higher PG liquids not good for Sub Ohm tanks? What makes sub ohm coils not able to take thinner liquid? Now I have gotten a few 60VG/40PG blends that I haven't really had an issue with. Maybe a tiny bit of gurgling and liquid in the mouth when I first fill it, but not really any harsher or do I notice a huge difference in flavor or anything else. So do sub ohm coils for these tanks have less, or thinner cotton? I just don't understand. People have also told me to use higher VG on my RDA's as well. So when is high PG liquids good then? Only on above 1 ohm coils and builds? If anyone could give me the details I would gladly appreciate it. I am just trying to understand coils better and wicking, along with the juices and their ratio effects. Thanks guys!
New to Vaping and need to understand PG/VG Ratios better.
- Thread starter CueBall1
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Without going into details (like, the short history of e-cigs) most liquids were high PG not that long ago.
PG is harsh, VG is smoother but is making more of the cloud.
Early hardware made using high VG tricky, as silica wicks, cartomizers, early atomizers couldn't deal with super-thick juice.
But... power has gone up, coils have been designed for wicking VG better and yes! PG liquid at high power can be harsh, really harsh.
If I was to put some 80/20 (PG/VG) in a subohm tank tomorrow, it would most likely spit more and maybe even leak. But the worst bit would be lack of smoothness as the power increases.
PG is still probably better for small and older tech kit. Depends on the exact coil really.
I have vaped 100% PG in a dripper. It was 'interesting' as basically it looked like a gas station cig-a-like (the vapor emitted) even at 40w.
Only trial and error works really. If you enjoy 50/50 (that's my choice) and feel you can go to the power you want, enjoy! On a RDA, anything (more or less) is possible. In a sub-ohm tank, things might get a little tricky as you go thinner on the liquid (more PG).
PG is harsh, VG is smoother but is making more of the cloud.
Early hardware made using high VG tricky, as silica wicks, cartomizers, early atomizers couldn't deal with super-thick juice.
But... power has gone up, coils have been designed for wicking VG better and yes! PG liquid at high power can be harsh, really harsh.
If I was to put some 80/20 (PG/VG) in a subohm tank tomorrow, it would most likely spit more and maybe even leak. But the worst bit would be lack of smoothness as the power increases.
PG is still probably better for small and older tech kit. Depends on the exact coil really.
I have vaped 100% PG in a dripper. It was 'interesting' as basically it looked like a gas station cig-a-like (the vapor emitted) even at 40w.
Only trial and error works really. If you enjoy 50/50 (that's my choice) and feel you can go to the power you want, enjoy! On a RDA, anything (more or less) is possible. In a sub-ohm tank, things might get a little tricky as you go thinner on the liquid (more PG).
Hello and welcome to the forum @CueBall1. Glad to have you here!
I run 50/50 juice in all my subΩ tanks/RTA's/RDA's ... no problem.
eLiquid/Juice
PG = Propylene Glycol - the "flavor carrier" of e-liquid. A secondary source of "throat hit", but not as strong as the nicotine concentration. Some people have a sensitivity or even an allergy to PG. It's very thin.
VG = Vegetable Glycerin - the "vapor maker" of e-liquid. Used as a sweeter in many food sources, and also as a skin emollient. It's very thick. Often labeled just "Glycerine"
PG and VG are often used together in different ratios in e-liquid. For example, a 50/50 PG/VG ratio. Many juice vendors offer a range of different ratios as far as PG/VG.
I run 50/50 juice in all my subΩ tanks/RTA's/RDA's ... no problem.
eLiquid/Juice
PG = Propylene Glycol - the "flavor carrier" of e-liquid. A secondary source of "throat hit", but not as strong as the nicotine concentration. Some people have a sensitivity or even an allergy to PG. It's very thin.
VG = Vegetable Glycerin - the "vapor maker" of e-liquid. Used as a sweeter in many food sources, and also as a skin emollient. It's very thick. Often labeled just "Glycerine"
PG and VG are often used together in different ratios in e-liquid. For example, a 50/50 PG/VG ratio. Many juice vendors offer a range of different ratios as far as PG/VG.
*I edited this reply and put it as a reply to someone (sorry am new and still learning)
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Hello and welcome to the forum @CueBall1. Glad to have you here!
I run 50/50 juice in all my subΩ tanks/RTA's/RDA's ... no problem.
eLiquid/Juice
PG = Propylene Glycol - the "flavor carrier" of e-liquid. A secondary source of "throat hit", but not as strong as the nicotine concentration. Some people have a sensitivity or even an allergy to PG. It's very thin.
VG = Vegetable Glycerin - the "vapor maker" of e-liquid. Used as a sweeter in many food sources, and also as a skin emollient. It's very thick. Often labeled just "Glycerine"
PG and VG are often used together in different ratios in e-liquid. For example, a 50/50 PG/VG ratio. Many juice vendors offer a range of different ratios as far as PG/VG.
Thanks!.. was just curious as to why everyone keeps telling sub ohm= higher VG juice, and why the guy told me higher PG liquids are too thin for sub ohm tanks.. Why is this? Why cant sub ohm tanks handle thinner liquids? what is it about the sub ohm coils that don't work as well with higher PG liquids?
Without going into details (like, the short history of e-cigs) most liquids were high PG not that long ago.
PG is harsh, VG is smoother but is making more of the cloud.
Early hardware made using high VG tricky, as silica wicks, cartomizers, early atomizers couldn't deal with super-thick juice.
But... power has gone up, coils have been designed for wicking VG better and yes! PG liquid at high power can be harsh, really harsh.
If I was to put some 80/20 (PG/VG) in a subohm tank tomorrow, it would most likely spit more and maybe even leak. But the worst bit would be lack of smoothness as the power increases.
PG is still probably better for small and older tech kit. Depends on the exact coil really.
I have vaped 100% PG in a dripper. It was 'interesting' as basically it looked like a gas station cig-a-like (the vapor emitted) even at 40w.
Only trial and error works really. If you enjoy 50/50 (that's my choice) and feel you can go to the power you want, enjoy! On a RDA, anything (more or less) is possible. In a sub-ohm tank, things might get a little tricky as you go thinner on the liquid (more PG).
*sorry meant to leave this to you as a reply but put it in the comment section below by accident*..But why is it that you get more spit back from the thinner PG juices in sub ohm tanks? Is this because there is less cotton in the premade coils? Or because the higher power does not burn off the thinner liquid as good as a higher VG?
Could be because:
- Many vapers equate subΩ tanks (and high wattage) with "cloud chasing"
- Many vape shops are staffed with young men/women that don't know any better as they have no experience with any other way of vaping.
I have never tried high Pg (i.e. 70+) in a subΩ tank but I can surmise that 70Pg *may* be too thin and leak.
SubΩ coils are usually run at high wattage and high Pg can be harsh when run at higher wattage.
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Think of your wicking as being tiny little holes in a bottle. Incredibly tiny holes. Think of VG as really thick syrup, and PG as water. If you have some really thick fluid in there like syrup, it doesn't try to leak out too fast because it is basically too thick to get through the holes. If you put something really thin like water in there, it will leak right through.
This is basically what is going on with your coil. The wick needs to let the juice move though it fast enough to keep the coil moist. Since the wick inside there is a specific material, you can't really change its properties. You can change the properties of the juice, though. Higher PG is very thin, while higher VG is very thick. Since the wick needs a certain range of flow, if you go too high with the PG and make the juice too thin, it can flow too much and leak. If you go too high of VG, the juice can be too thick to flow effectively and give you dry hits. Most sub-ohm tanks are made with the idea of vapers running high VG. This means the wicks are able to flow a lot of juice. If you suddenly toss in something a lot thinner than it was designed for, it may not work properly.
This is basically what is going on with your coil. The wick needs to let the juice move though it fast enough to keep the coil moist. Since the wick inside there is a specific material, you can't really change its properties. You can change the properties of the juice, though. Higher PG is very thin, while higher VG is very thick. Since the wick needs a certain range of flow, if you go too high with the PG and make the juice too thin, it can flow too much and leak. If you go too high of VG, the juice can be too thick to flow effectively and give you dry hits. Most sub-ohm tanks are made with the idea of vapers running high VG. This means the wicks are able to flow a lot of juice. If you suddenly toss in something a lot thinner than it was designed for, it may not work properly.
So then when can you use really thin, and high PG juices? Because all coils need wicking regardless of rda or tank coils, so what is even the point of all these ratios with high PG? PG also seems to be the one that has more allergy issues so it doesn't make too much sense to me that there are super thin and super high PG e-juices out there when they are just not ideal for really any wick. Unless there are wicks specifically made for thin PG juices? I'm sorry to dig so far into details, but I am just trying to understand.
You are right when it comes to many shops having younger staff.. It is just odd that literally "everyone" at these shops (and I have been to like 12 shops all around Philly) always tell me to do 70+ VG in my rda and sub ohm tank.. So being that everyone pretty much sub ohm's now whether it be tanks or rda's, what is even the point of them selling high PG or anything less than 70% VG if that is all they keep telling everyone to use?? Weird to me.
Don't be sorry. You asking so many questions is a good thing. It means you are wanting to learn. I like that.
Most of the newer coils all sit below the liquid. This isn't how older coils worked. Take a look at this older CE4 style clearomizer.
You can see the little strings hanging down in there. Those are silica strings that were used as wicks. The coil was up on the very top where the wicks are going in. With those type clearomizers, when the juice was starting to get low, it had to make its way up the silica wick and into the coil. If it was a thick juice, it couldn't do it. Most of those are happier with 50-70% PG. While it is older tech, there are still a lot of people who like to just puff away on those. To keep those people happy, you have to have juices out there that will work with those clearomizers.
Contrary to popular belief MOST vapers do not use subΩ tanks and vape at high wattage.
The vast majority of new vapers start off using cigalikes and ego type batteries w/low airflow tanks and you will never see them posting on forums such as this.
Vape shops also cater/sell equipment/juice to these vapers and high VG juice does not play well with their equipment.
VG - is thick, doesn't wick well, produces lots of vapor, not as good as PG for nicotine throat hit and flavor.
PG - is thin, wicks easily, produces less vapor, better than VG for nicotine throat hit and flavor.
For reasons stated above most folks use a blend of PG/VG to achieve their desired results in the equipment they are using.
PG - is thin, wicks easily, produces less vapor, better than VG for nicotine throat hit and flavor.
For reasons stated above most folks use a blend of PG/VG to achieve their desired results in the equipment they are using.
High PG tends to carry flavor better than low PG. I use RDA's with no leak/cloud production problems.
Some of this is simple personal preference. I cannot tolerate high VG liquids as it gives me heavy lungs (phlegm...COPD). 70% or even 80% pg is better for me. I do have some subohm (cubis, tron-s, rda's) capable devices, but also earlier Kayfun & Protank types. I don't have problems running my liquid in any of them.
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