New to vv and vw

Status
Not open for further replies.

Behemoth92425

Full Member
Jun 15, 2015
10
0
33
Hey everyone. So I just picked up a sigelei 150w and im loving it so far. I just had a few questions about safely using it though. Now I know its not really recommended to subohm on this thing but I've been running a dual twisted 24 g kanthal build on here at about .18 ohms mainly because of the surface area for more clouds and flavor. My question is how high can I pump the voltage and wattage on something with this low of a resistance before theres a chance of it blowing up my lips? I haven't gone any higher than 85. I was also wondering if anyone could recommend some builds for me to kinda push this device a bit (safely of course) at higher voltage and wattage. Im looking to start participating in the vape competitions around here and I wanna use this mod to help me produce massive clouds. Thanks in advance everyone!
 

Hightech Redneck

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Mar 27, 2015
3,981
24,156
N C
Check on the competition side, Alot have mech only requirements. But go to the app store for your phone etc and get a decent ohms law calculator. The one I use I can just put in my resistance and 4.2v like a fully charged 18650 and I get amps drawn etc.. The amps you really wanna watch. Here is the reult page for your .18 build. 23 amps would be fine on a good batt.
Screenshot_2015-06-14-20-53-50.png
 

Susan~S

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Mar 12, 2014
16,936
11,694
69
Mpls/St.Paul, MN
Hello and welcome to the forum. Glad to have you here!:)

Sigelei recommends you use only 30A CDR (continuous discharge rating) batteries in their 150 Watt mod. If you see a battery labeled anything higher than 30A they are labeled with the "pulse" amp, not the CDR.

If you are using 30A batteries (make sure you marry them) you will be able to build higher (more surface area) and crank up the wattage to get more vapor.

Regarding competitions, most (if not all) of them do not allow regulated mods. Mech mods only. See the rules for the competition you are interested in.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Baditude

Hightech Redneck

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Mar 27, 2015
3,981
24,156
N C
Sorry bypassed original question and went down the mech road, would depend on whether the Batts are setup series or parallel.
I believe yours is series. But the box has safety in it but did calculation the other way to show a .18 build at 150 watts, still looks ok amp wise but betting on some heat. Assuming maybe 35a batts.

Screenshot_2015-06-14-21-08-29.png
 

Susan~S

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Mar 12, 2014
16,936
11,694
69
Mpls/St.Paul, MN
...so what should I not crank my wattage to?

If you are using 30A CDR batteries (like the Sony's) you can use all 150 watts from a battery safety standpoint. Most of the IMREN are 20A CDR. How hot it is will depend on your RDA/RTA, the airflow, your build, etc.

The beauty of a high vv/vw mod is that you don't have to build low sub-ohm coils. In fact, building low sub-ohm works against you. Higher ohm coils use more wire which means more surface area to vaporize juice. This increases both heat and vapor production.

Here's a good thread on the subject: My thoughts about sub-ohm and latest VV/VW devices...

Also check out State-O-Flux's blog on the "Steam Engine" regarding "heat flux": Steam Engine: From Basic Use to Advanced Features
 

speedy_r6

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Apr 25, 2015
438
400
Illinois, US
with a regulated mod, ohms are just a preference(to the extent the chip inside can fire the voltages at). To figure out the amps you are drawing, I recommend calculating it from the low voltage of the cell(3.2 volts, or 6.4 in the case of the sigelei being in series). Factor in a 10% inefficiency for the mod. That means if you are running at 150 watts, that would be 165 after the inefficiency is factored in. 165/6.4=25.8 amps.

Just take the wattage you are running, add 10% to that, and then divide it by 6.4 to calculate how many amps you are drawing. If you want to be even more on the safe side, calculate 20% as the inefficiency.

Let's say you are using 100 watts. Add the 10%(or 20% of added safety margin) to that to get 110 watts(or 120 watts with the extra safety margin). Divide the 110(or 120) by 6.4, and you are pulling 17.2 amps(or 18.75 with the extra safety margin) from the batteries.

If you have 20amp CDR batteries, I wouldn't go over 115 watts. If you want to start pushing the higher end of it, get some authentic VTC4 batteries. I ordered mine from Orbtronic.

Calculating from the low voltage limits you more, but it adds an extra layer of safety. Your batteries shouldnt be that discharged, but if they are, that is the amperage. Better to be on the safe side of things.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Behemoth92425

Behemoth92425

Full Member
Jun 15, 2015
10
0
33
with a regulated mod, ohms are just a preference(to the extent the chip inside can fire the voltages at). To figure out the amps you are drawing, I recommend calculating it from the low voltage of the cell(3.2 volts, or 6.4 in the case of the sigelei being in series). Factor in a 10% inefficiency for the mod. That means if you are running at 150 watts, that would be 165 after the inefficiency is factored in. 165/6.4=25.8 amps.

Just take the wattage you are running, add 10% to that, and then divide it by 6.4 to calculate how many amps you are drawing. If you want to be even more on the safe side, calculate 20% as the inefficiency.

Let's say you are using 100 watts. Add the 10%(or 20% of added safety margin) to that to get 110 watts(or 120 watts with the extra safety margin). Divide the 110(or 120) by 6.4, and you are pulling 17.2 amps(or 18.75 with the extra safety margin) from the batteries.

If you have 20amp CDR batteries, I wouldn't go over 115 watts. If you want to start pushing the higher end of it, get some authentic VTC4 batteries. I ordered mine from Orbtronic.

Calculating from the low voltage limits you more, but it adds an extra layer of safety. Your batteries shouldnt be that discharged, but if they are, that is the amperage. Better to be on the safe side of things.

Ok, so I just downloaded an ohms ccalculator and was wondering if you could explain something. It says at 150 watts it'd be drawing almost 29 amps from my batteries right? Well they're running in series so since their Sony's that put out 30 amps does that mean it'd only be taking about half my batteries power and that it's safe? Just so I kinda understand. What I'm getting from this is as long as I don't build something that draws over 60 amps of power from my two batteries I'll be ok at higher wattage?
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_2015-06-14-23-25-53.png
    Screenshot_2015-06-14-23-25-53.png
    147.6 KB · Views: 30

edyle

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Oct 23, 2013
14,199
7,195
Port-of-Spain, Trinidad & Tobago
Ok, so I just downloaded an ohms ccalculator and was wondering if you could explain something. It says at 150 watts it'd be drawing almost 29 amps from my batteries right? Well they're running in series so since their Sony's that put out 30 amps does that mean it'd only be taking about half my batteries power and that it's safe? Just so I kinda understand. What I'm getting from this is as long as I don't build something that draws over 60 amps of power from my two batteries I'll be ok at higher wattage?

If you want to be safe, you use higher voltage with higher ohms (and lower amps).

It's the AMPS that cause the problem.
 

Behemoth92425

Full Member
Jun 15, 2015
10
0
33
If you want to be safe, you use higher voltage with higher ohms (and lower amps).

It's the AMPS that cause the problem.
I get what you're saying but that doesn't answer my question. I can't really go with higher ohms right now because I can't get any smaller gauge wire until I get paid which is why I'm trying to find out the safest method of using it at these low ohms.
 

edyle

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Oct 23, 2013
14,199
7,195
Port-of-Spain, Trinidad & Tobago
I get what you're saying but that doesn't answer my question. I can't really go with higher ohms right now because I can't get any smaller gauge wire until I get paid which is why I'm trying to find out the safest method of using it at these low ohms.

30 watts seems to be pretty common nowadays : I did not say "safe"
if you vape off of 2 batteries at 30watts each that's 60 watts.

If something happens to somebody vaping at 100 watts, the average person is going to look at that as extreme sports.


I hope that answers your question, because there is no safe method of shorting out a battery.

Uncomfortable things happen to people to try to do extreme sports on a tight budget.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Baditude

speedy_r6

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Apr 25, 2015
438
400
Illinois, US
With a VV/VW mod, don't worry about keying in the resistance. The batteries have no clue what resistance atty is on there. If you are running at 150 watts, you are drawing 7.4 volts(the nominal capacity of the cells in series) at 20.27 amps. That doesn't get halved, because we used the 7.4v of the two cells together. When you are using a VV/VW mod, there are two circuits in there. There is the one between the battery and the chip, and the one between the chip and the atomizer. The chip will draw the voltage the batteries are at from the cells at however many amps it takes to get to the wattage you are wanting.

EXAMPLE:
If you are wanting 74 watts from the two cells in series which we will assume are at the nominal voltage of 3.7v each, or 7.4v in series, the chip is going to see that it needs 74 watts, and draw 7.4 volts at 10 amps(3.7v at 10 amps from each cell) to get 74 watts. You could have a 0.5 ohm coil on there or a 2 ohm coil. It doesn't matter. 74 watts is 74 watts. If you are running a 0.5 ohm coil at 74 watts, it is drawing the 7.4 volts at 10 amps from the batteries. If you are running a 2 ohm coil at 74 watts, it is still drawing the 7.4 volts at 10 amps from the batteries.

In other words, since you have a regulated device, stop worrying about ohms. As long as you are in the acceptable range of the device, that is what matters. All you need to worry about are the watts you are wanting to push through to the coils, and what voltage the batteries are at. That is why I said to base your calculations of the cutoff voltage of the device, which is 3.2v per cell, or 6.4v in series(you know your batteries will always be above this, so it adds in some safety). Take the number of watts you are wanting to push to the coils, and add 10% to that number(if you are wanting to run at 150w, add 15w to it for the device inefficiency to get 165w). Take that number(165w) and divide it by the voltage(6.4v) and you have the amps you are drawing. 165/6.4=25.8 amps.

EDITED TO ADD------
If you are running authentic Sony batteries capable of 30A continuous discharge, you should be safe to run it all the way to the 150w max it is capable of delivering. Even if we figure 20% inefficiency, that gives us 180w total being used, which is drawing 21.5A when the batteries are fully charged(4.2v each, making 8.4v in series), or 28.125A when the batteries are at the device's cutoff voltage(3.2v each, making 6.4v in series). Both of those are below the 30A CDR rating of the batteries.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Behemoth92425

Behemoth92425

Full Member
Jun 15, 2015
10
0
33
30 watts seems to be pretty common nowadays : I did not say "safe"
if you vape off of 2 batteries at 30watts each that's 60 watts.

If something happens to somebody vaping at 100 watts, the average person is going to look at that as extreme sports.


I hope that answers your question, because there is no safe method of shorting out a battery.

Uncomfortable things happen to people to try to do extreme sports on a tight budget.
30 watts seems to be pretty common nowadays : I did not say "safe"
if you vape off of 2 batteries at 30watts each that's 60 watts.

If something happens to somebody vaping at 100 watts, the average person is going to look at that as extreme sports.


I hope that answers your question, because there is no safe method of shorting out a battery.

Uncomfortable things happen to people to try to do extreme sports on a tight budget.
Thanks so much for that tidbit of information. I appreciate it sooooo much.

Look I said I'm new to this. There's no need to be rude to someone seeking information to safely use a device like this...
 

edyle

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Oct 23, 2013
14,199
7,195
Port-of-Spain, Trinidad & Tobago
Thanks so much for that tidbit of information. I appreciate it sooooo much.

Look I said I'm new to this. There's no need to be rude to someone seeking information to safely use a device like this...

yeah; I just gotta accept that i'm a rude I've heard it lots of times before and its a struggle, but I figure you got I didn't mean to be rude
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread