New Vaper and Freaking Myself Out

[TrustNoOneKS]

Hey all, I'm a fairly new vaper. I started 12/26. I'm using an EGO AIO and have been vaping 18 nic. I'd been doing great going cigarette free for a month, but then last week I started to have symptoms of blood clots in my legs and started to get panic attacks, etc.

I'm pretty sure that as I was vaping and loving it, that I really upped my intake of nic and was overdoing it.

It might all be in my head, but now I'm scared to vape. I decided to go ahead and join up and maybe get some support from other vapers because I've gone back to analogs because I'm just scared all the time that I'm overdoing the nice with the vape. I really like vaping and want to kick the analogs so I figured maybe I just need to get some help from other more experienced vapers.

I'm probably vaping around 10 ml a day. I fill my tank about 5 times a day or every 2-3 hours, so am I overdoing my nic or am I just being paranoid?

Yesterday, I went and got some 0 nic and was watering down the 18 with it, but tonight I started feeling funny again and was scared I was getting too much nic even watered down.

Any support/help would be greatly appreciated since I really do want to kick the habit.

 

[NealBJr]

First, let me say I am not a doctor, so my first advice would be to consult a doctor.

What I will say, is from what I've researched, Nicotine may alter the blood vessels, but so does smoking. I will say that 18mg/ml is a bit high for a .6 ohm AIO coil. Judging by your vaping style, I'd suggest lowering the nicotine content. There's no numbers I can throw out at you to compare, but it has to do with absorption rate. A typical cigarette holds about 20mg per cigarette, however, only 1mg is absorbed into the blood stream. With vaping, you can customize the vape experience dramatically from one device to another, and one juice to another as well. So even if a study were to come out measuring the nicotine intake from a device, chances are your device would be different.

I think you're on the right track when you mentioned "diluting" the nicotine juice with non nicotine juice. If your juice is 18mg/ml, try putting 1/3rd nicotine in with 2/3 rds non nicotine to create a 6mg/ml and start there. This will require a third bottle though. For measuring, go to a pharmacy and ask for 1 or 2 10ml oral syringes. Most places give those out free to help people take medicine like liquid ibuprofen. Try mixing 3.3ml of the 18mg juice, and 6.6mg of the zero nicotine juice and shake for 3-4 minutes. make sure there's enough air in the new bottle to allow the juices to mix thoroughly. Try a day on that to see if it helps.

Another suggestion.. is just try the zero nic for a while to see if there might be a reaction to just the liquid itself. You'll still get a craving, and will still want to smoke, but if you get that feeling again, you know it's not from the nicotine in the juice.

 

[NealBJr]

Hey all, I'm a fairly new vaper. I started 12/26. I'm using an EGO AIO and have been vaping 18 nic. I'd been doing great going cigarette free for a month, but then last week I started to have symptoms of blood clots in my legs and started to get panic attacks, etc.

I'm pretty sure that as I was vaping and loving it, that I really upped my intake of nic and was overdoing it.

It might all be in my head, but now I'm scared to vape. I decided to go ahead and join up and maybe get some support from other vapers because I've gone back to analogs because I'm just scared all the time that I'm overdoing the nice with the vape. I really like vaping and want to kick the analogs so I figured maybe I just need to get some help from other more experienced vapers.

I'm probably vaping around 10 ml a day. I fill my tank about 5 times a day or every 2-3 hours, so am I overdoing my nic or am I just being paranoid?

Yesterday, I went and got some 0 nic and was watering down the 18 with it, but tonight I started feeling funny again and was scared I was getting too much nic even watered down.

Any support/help would be greatly appreciated since I really do want to kick the habit.

.... and where's my manners.... WELCOME TO THE FORUM!

 

[TrustNoOneKS]

First, let me say I am not a doctor, so my first advice would be to consult a doctor.

What I will say, is from what I've researched, Nicotine may alter the blood vessels, but so does smoking. I will say that 18mg/ml is a bit high for a .6 ohm AIO coil. Judging by your vaping style, I'd suggest lowering the nicotine content. There's no numbers I can throw out at you to compare, but it has to do with absorption rate. A typical cigarette holds about 20mg per cigarette, however, only 1mg is absorbed into the blood stream. With vaping, you can customize the vape experience dramatically from one device to another, and one juice to another as well. So even if a study were to come out measuring the nicotine intake from a device, chances are your device would be different.

I think you're on the right track when you mentioned "diluting" the nicotine juice with non nicotine juice. If your juice is 18mg/ml, try putting 1/3rd nicotine in with 2/3 rds non nicotine to create a 6mg/ml and start there. This will require a third bottle though. For measuring, go to a pharmacy and ask for 1 or 2 10ml oral syringes. Most places give those out free to help people take medicine like liquid ibuprofen. Try mixing 3.3ml of the 18mg juice, and 6.6mg of the zero nicotine juice and shake for 3-4 minutes. make sure there's enough air in the new bottle to allow the juices to mix thoroughly. Try a day on that to see if it helps.

Another suggestion.. is just try the zero nic for a while to see if there might be a reaction to just the liquid itself. You'll still get a craving, and will still want to smoke, but if you get that feeling again, you know it's not from the nicotine in the juice.

Thanks for the reply. I'm sure I'm just being overly paranoid. I did go ahead and put the analogs back up and mixed 18 at 1/3 and 0 at 2/3. I'm prone to panic attacks and so it probably really is just all in my head.

It really helps hearing from people who have been doing it longer if my nic level was too high for the device. I'm starting to think now that it was and maybe since I vape pretty heavy that I should really bring that nic level down significantly.

 

[TrustNoOneKS]

.... and where's my manners.... WELCOME TO THE FORUM!

Thanks! Glad to be here!

 

[Eskie]

That really is quite a bit of nicotine at 10 ml of 18 mg. Some folks do need that much to stay off smokes but it can certainly over stimulate you. As for the clot symptoms I have no advice other than see your doctor asap as if that is an issue your need to deal with it immediately. Not sure why you think that is going on but it's enough to merit attention.

 

[TrustNoOneKS]

That really is quite a bit of nicotine at 10 ml of 18 mg. Some folks do need that much to stay off smokes but it can certainly over stimulate you. As for the clot symptoms I have no advice other than see your doctor asap as if that is an issue your need to deal with it immediately. Not sure why you think that is going on but it's enough to merit attention.

Thanks for the reply. I was just worried that vaping such high levels of nicotine (accidentally of course since I'm so new to this) could have been causing the blood clots since blood clots can be caused by nicotine. Backing off the nicotine via analog use or diluting the 18 mg has made the symptoms for blood clots in the leg go away at least.

The thing I'm seeing while doing research is that using the .6 coil on the EGO AIO is a subohm coil, so I should maybe only be vaping 6 or 3 nic. I'm not sure why the vape shop I go to didn't think of telling me that I shouldn't be vaping that 18 nic level since they knew what my device was and that I was new to it.

My main concern is that I don't want to have to spend another night sitting in the parking lot at at the ER for a hour and a half freaking out most likely due to too much nicotine with my poor husband (who's a great guy for dealing with this with me).

I'm thinking at my current level of usage (about 8-10 mls a day) that I should be vaping a 6 mg. Does that sound about right to more experienced vapers? My husband is also vaping 18 mg and he's worried now too that maybe we have not been getting good help at our vape shop, although he's only vaping 2 tanks a day, so he's at around 4 ml a day.

Sorry to be such a noob (my being a worry wart and prone to panic attacks really isn't helping I'm sure).

 

[Eskie]

When I started vaping I was using a mouth to lung type setup (close to the way we draw on a cigarette) with 24 mg nic but only about 2 ml a day. Now I vape on more higher airflow lower resistance type setups 6 mg nic and about 7 ml a day. I was a pack and a half smoker before I stopped about 2 years ago.

 

[mcclintock]

Are you drinking plenty of water? Also purified nicotine is not as good at cutting stress as smoking. I tried pushing it to going all the work day only vaping a bit too early and had to go back to one cig late afternoon for a while. That may have been that I vaped too much otherwise but then that in itself is a symptom. If you use the method of just smoking one (rather than getting WTA eliquid or Snus or something to get those chemicals) as an ex-smoker of course you tend to think you need more of them than is actually the case. For a year I smoked one a month and I actually believe the effects can last that long.

 

[Opinionated]

When I first started vaping was a long time ago but I also used a very very low watt device and used 18mg nicotine. I went through 2 ml of ejuice a day (devices were not nearly as efficient as they are today)

I also went through serious withdrawal symptoms as that wasn't near enough nicotine for me, I could have easily used 36 mg and done better with the withdrawals.

We are all different, we all absorb nicotine at different rates, but I would not go much over 9mg of ejuice if your vaping up to 10ml per day.. your body might could get away with 12mg. .. but I'd never go above that.

You might find you do better with some WTA ejuice, it's got more of the alkaloids from the tobacco plant than just the nicotine. Some people who have a more difficult time getting through the switch from cigarettes to vaping do better with WTA ejuice. AROMA and Umba are two companies who make WTA ejuice, it is more expensive but it might help with the initial switch a little more than regular ejuice, and give you more ability to decrease the amount of nicotine your using.

Your freaking out with the hand to mouth action because your withdrawing from the thousands of other chemicals that are in cigarettes, which aren't found in ejuice.

Your going to have an adjustment period, a period of withdrawal and physical adjustment no matter what, the point is to make that period more comfortable than it would otherwise be.

Some people don't make the full switch all at once, some people smoke one cigarette or two a day for a while, and taper off some..doing this tapering off might help you. Don't try to quit all at once, keep your morning cigarette and your before bed cigarette for a while... then when your ready get rid of one, once your adjusted to that get rid of the other...

Most important is to relax, and try to find other things to do as well. Exercise a little more, try some knitting or other hobby with your hands and try to keep your mind calm. Avoid stress if possible, or as much as possible - you are after all quitting smoking. Your going to feel weird, it's not easy. What vaping does is make it easier but it doesn't change the fact your still detoxing.

 

[TrustNoOneKS]

Are you drinking plenty of water? Also purified nicotine is not as good at cutting stress as smoking. I tried pushing it to going all the work day only vaping a bit too early and had to go back to one cig late afternoon for a while. That may have been that I vaped too much otherwise but then that in itself is a symptom. If you use the method of just smoking one (rather than getting WTA eliquid or Snus or something to get those chemicals) as an ex-smoker of course you tend to think you need more of them than is actually the case. For a year I smoked one a month and I actually believe the effects can last that long.

You know, I didn't even know until tonight that I should increase my drinking when vaping? Doing research tonight, I came across that. So, yeah, I may not be getting enough fluids in me.

 

[TrustNoOneKS]

When I first started vaping was a long time ago but I also used a very very low watt device and used 18mg nicotine. I went through 2 ml of ejuice a day (devices were not nearly as efficient as they are today)

I also went through serious withdrawal symptoms as that wasn't near enough nicotine for me, I could have easily used 36 mg and done better with the withdrawals.

We are all different, we all absorb nicotine at different rates, but I would not go much over 9mg of ejuice if your vaping up to 10ml per day.. your body might could get away with 12mg. .. but I'd never go above that.

You might find you do better with some WTA ejuice, it's got more of the alkaloids from the tobacco plant than just the nicotine. Some people who have a more difficult time getting through the switch from cigarettes to vaping do better with WTA ejuice. AROMA and Umba are two companies who make WTA ejuice, it is more expensive but it might help with the initial switch a little more than regular ejuice, and give you more ability to decrease the amount of nicotine your using.

Your freaking out with the hand to mouth action because your withdrawing from the thousands of other chemicals that are in cigarettes, which aren't found in ejuice.

Your going to have an adjustment period, a period of withdrawal and physical adjustment no matter what, the point is to make that period more comfortable than it would otherwise be.

Some people don't make the full switch all at once, some people smoke one cigarette or two a day for a while, and taper off some..doing this tapering off might help you. Don't try to quit all at once, keep your morning cigarette and your before bed cigarette for a while... then when your ready get rid of one, once your adjusted to that get rid of the other...

Most important is to relax, and try to find other things to do as well. Exercise a little more, try some knitting or other hobby with your hands and try to keep your mind calm. Avoid stress if possible, or as much as possible - you are after all quitting smoking. Your going to feel weird, it's not easy. What vaping does is make it easier but it doesn't change the fact your still detoxing.

Thanks for the great advice. Maybe you are right with the tapering off with an analog here and there. The vape shop we go to actually made me feel bad for still using one here and there in the beginning. I think I'm going through so much juice because I was a very heavy smoker and so I vape heavily as well because I'm replicating the actions of smoking more than the nicotine addiction.

 

[Opinionated]

Thanks for the great advice. Maybe you are right with the tapering off with an analog here and there. The vape shop we go to actually made me feel bad for still using one here and there in the beginning. I think I'm going through so much juice because I was a very heavy smoker and so I vape heavily as well because I'm replicating the actions of smoking more than the nicotine addiction.

I did the same thing you did.. I kept my vape in my hand and chain vaped my .... off.. it helped. I didn't use so much nicotine, so I never had any worries about getting too much, but chain vaping was a real help to get through the more difficult times.

I was also a heavy smoker, two packs a day of reds. SO chain vaping was natural..

After a while, once your through the withdrawal phase, you wont need or perhaps want to chain vape so much, or at least I didn't. But it took a while to reach that stage.

What actually solidified my quit was to go two weeks straight without even one cigarette. After those two weeks were up I caved on a craving and had one.. Oh man that thing tasted so bad that I put it out straight away. Didn't smoke again. You might desire that experience, once you get your taste buds back to remember what it was you quit, and why. Sometimes just smoking that once is the end of it. But if your taste buds haven't returned yet it won't have the same affect.

But yeah. if you need a cigarette or two, don't let anyone make you feel guilty. Even one less cigarette is a step in the right direction. Vaping is about going at YOUR own pace, not someone elses. YOU are doing this for YOU... never forget that. What works for you is what needs to be done.. nothing more, nothing less.

 

[KenD]

If you have blood clots in your legs they won't simply go away (eventually they might dislodge and end up in your lungs, heart, brain). If you suspect you have a blood clot, go to a doctor! Nicotine in itself will not cause blood clots.

Sent from my Thor E using Tapatalk

 

[Vaperer]

Hello and welcome to the Forum.
If I was you I'd get to the doctor right away. I don't this has anything from vaping. Time is of the essence if you suspect blood clots. Try not to do anything strenuous. At least that's what they told me.until my CAT scan But please get to a doctor. Don't take any aspirin. I know you're a nervous wreck because I'm a nervous wreck. You're having high anxiety and so am I. But I don't think the Vape has anything to do with that
Joe

 

[pmadden]

Thanks for the reply. I was just worried that vaping such high levels of nicotine (accidentally of course since I'm so new to this) could have been causing the blood clots since blood clots can be caused by nicotine. Backing off the nicotine via analog use or diluting the 18 mg has made the symptoms for blood clots in the leg go away at least.

The thing I'm seeing while doing research is that using the .6 coil on the EGO AIO is a subohm coil, so I should maybe only be vaping 6 or 3 nic. I'm not sure why the vape shop I go to didn't think of telling me that I shouldn't be vaping that 18 nic level since they knew what my device was and that I was new to it.

My main concern is that I don't want to have to spend another night sitting in the parking lot at at the ER for a hour and a half freaking out most likely due to too much nicotine with my poor husband (who's a great guy for dealing with this with me).

I'm thinking at my current level of usage (about 8-10 mls a day) that I should be vaping a 6 mg. Does that sound about right to more experienced vapers? My husband is also vaping 18 mg and he's worried now too that maybe we have not been getting good help at our vape shop, although he's only vaping 2 tanks a day, so he's at around 4 ml a day.

Sorry to be such a noob (my being a worry wart and prone to panic attacks really isn't helping I'm sure).

Hi and welcome to the forum. I’m just one week off cigs, but I will add that you have to pace yourself while vaping. It’s understandable that coming off stinkies we are going to overindulge on juice, so I try to treat it like smoking, take 8-10 puffs and put it down for a while. The nicotine won’t hurt you if you overdo it, just a headache or a little nauseous feeling. Don’t reach for a cig, take a pull off the device when you feel the urge to smoke, try not to do both together because that is nicotine overkill for sure. Good luck and enjoy your vaping!

 

[NealBJr]

Thanks for the great advice. Maybe you are right with the tapering off with an analog here and there. The vape shop we go to actually made me feel bad for still using one here and there in the beginning. I think I'm going through so much juice because I was a very heavy smoker and so I vape heavily as well because I'm replicating the actions of smoking more than the nicotine addiction.

Never feel bad about having to go back to an analog cigarette. I was a smoker for 20 years, and I quit somewhat accidentally using Ecigarettes. I used vaping as an excuse to "smoke indoors"... Went from a pack per day to 3 per day almost instantly. That was 17 less cigarettes per day, or 119 less cigarettes per week. When I journeyed up the vaping ladder, and got more powerful devices, the number of cigarettes slowly went down until one day, I said "I wonder how long I can go without smoking"... I think I went three days, then challenged myself again... and that was five years ago (guessing).

Don't count the failures in your life, count the successes. And if you count the failures in life as a learning process, then your life is full of long term successes. I know, sounds like a Meme, but it's and attitude I've developed over my life.

As far as that vape shop goes, Since I'm not there, I cannot say whether they are good or bad. It does sound like they might be more interested in sales instead of actually making a change. I rarely visit one shop because the owner kept trying to sell me stuff I already have, or pushing product on me. When I went to another shop, they were concerned more about my vaping journey than my money. Even though %99 of my vaping money is spent online, I consistantly recommend the other shop (the good one) to new people, and have sent business their way several times. IF there's another vape shop nearby, try visiting others to see if you have a better experience with them.

 

[stols001]

With panic, our brains can manufacture physical symptoms but it is still smart to rule out medical possibilities. My brother started a med that gave him panic attacks, had no idea what they were, and then called the paramedics because he was having heart palpitations (he thought). He said he found their "routine dismissal" of the situation somewhat reassuring, but still went to a cardio and wore a halter monitor for a few days, because heart attacks run in our family. Turns out he was fine.

So, panic or not, get tested so that you can rule out any medical problems, whether they are caused by fear or not. You will have an easier time vaping by making SURE nothing medical is going on, and if it is, you need treatment.

I agree that with a former smoker transitioning, it's quite likely that blood clots while vaping wouldn't be caused by vaping, but you want to be sure.

Lowering your nic is probably a smart bet, and you are going about it the right way, as you have infinite control over figuring out what nic level is right for you.

Finally, tobacco contains nicotine but a host of other things, including substances (alkaloids and tar) that cause MAOI-A and MAOI-B action in the brain. These are powerful anti-depressant and anti-anxiety substances (and have been actually prescribed by psychiatrists although they have fallen out of favor with the newer drugs. So tobacco may have been "treating" your anxiety in a way that you did not realize until you quit..

You do have options. If you want to keep vaping straight nic, you could try Swedish snus, which has been shown to be equally as safe as vaping, but more closely mirrors a tobacco experience, including the alkaloids. You could use that instead of a cigarette when you are feeling particularly anxious, and it is harm reduction. There is also WTA, whole tobacco alkaloids, which contain some of those MAOI actions. I am bipolar and used it myself while transitioning, and I don't think I would have been able to quit without it. Detox was still unpleasant, but vastly improved.

Aroma e-liquids are the gold standard for WTA, Umbavapes is good but less expensive than Aroma. You can get wholesale unflavored WTA from either vendor, and just add small amounts to your tank or keep a tank of it around for when you feel anxiety/panic. I did that for a couple months and then slowly weaned myself once tobacco detox was done. I still keep a tank around for "stressful situations."

Best of luck, and I hope you get things resolved. The other thing you could do is see your psychiatrist (I am assuming you have one) and work on a taper schedule with specific coping skills to manage anxiety, or look at medication interventions as you transition.

I wish you all the best, I had panic attacks early on in my illness (probably about 20 years ago) and a lot of anxiety. I didn't want to take more meds, so I just worked very very hard on coping skills and learning skills, and I'm glad I did, as panic and anxiety can be managed with a good therapist and etc. I will never forget them though.... I once had one so bad walking to my master's program in Baltimore I literally collapsed on the pavement. I must have looked bad as several folks actually stopped to ask if I was okay, which almost never happens in Baltimore.

I wish you the best of luck,

Anna

 

[Vaperer]

And stupid me started smoking just to be cool with the guys. Look at the damage they did to me I can't believe I smoked all them cigarettes. I wonder how many thousands of dollars I spent on cigarettes. I think the general population is very lucky to have these e-cigs because if I I could have Vaped all them years I wouldn't have the conditions I have.. I don't see how some people could be anti Vape it doesn't make sense.

 

[Grimwald]

I was a 40 year very heavy smoker when I started vaping 5 1/2 years ago. Using older cigalike devices I started at 24mg. After a couple of months, I started getting signs of too much nic...sleeplessness, anxiety, woozy...what I described as running around like a headless chicken. I got some VG from Walmart/CVS and some zero nic liquid and started cutting my liquid. First to 21mg then 18mg then 15mg, etc. For the next few years, if I got cravings I went up...if I got headless chicken syndrome I went down.