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New zealand vapeors

Discussion in 'Australia - New Zealand Forum' started by Kinkykatie, Oct 3, 2013.

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  1. XXYGuy

    XXYGuy Full Member

    Sep 21, 2014
    New Zealand
    In my opinion there's nothing grey about it, the Health Department employees are telling lies. There is no law to prevent the sale of products with nicotine in them to adults.

    There is a law that prevents the amount of nicotine in a product being displayed, only products that are part of an official tobacco cessation regime are allowed to say how much nicotine is in them. So my Habitrol Lozenge has 2.0mg nicotine, my Habitrol Nicotine patch has a staggering 21.0mg in them, every 24 hours. I vape nowhere near that much!

    Have you searched the law yet? The only time nicotine comes under the law is when it's used in conjunction with a smoking cessation regime, or is advertised publicly, otherwise it's unregulated, just like every other tobacco product.

    So I can go to Lotz of Potz in Palmerston North and ask for the nicotine version of the flavours they have one the shelf and get them, perfectly legally.
     
  2. gully

    gully Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 12, 2013
    New Zealand
    Nice catch mate,it looks like Health Department guidlines/recommendations have been taken as law but not passed into law.I can't find anything that disputes what you say.
     
  3. XXYGuy

    XXYGuy Full Member

    Sep 21, 2014
    New Zealand
    Sent to Ministry of Health ( info@health.govt.nz ) today:

    "Your people are going about the place telling retailers they can't sell products that contain Nicotine, claiming there's some law that stops the sales. I can't find that law, that means the Government has been very secretive about this new law, or your people are liars!


    I maintain the second option, your people are liars, send your liars round the retailers again and make them tell the truth, or send me a copy of this imaginary law, I want to read it!"
     
  4. XXYGuy

    XXYGuy Full Member

    Sep 21, 2014
    New Zealand
    I think I've read everything the Department of Health has to say, I can even find a link to a meeting in Moscow, that hasn't be held yet, and a report on it that hasn't been published yet - the Department describes it as a report, but really it's just a list of topics to be discussed, an agenda.

    The meeting is to be run by the infamous World Health Organisation, the very same organisation that approves cutting off part of a mans' penis, provided he is black and living in Africa, as a means to reduce his susceptibility to the virus that causes AIDS. And the very same organisation that has approved untested on humans drugs to treat the Ebola virus, people who again are black and living in Africa! I don't hold the W.H.O. in any great regard at all, and I wonder why anyone would?

    The conference is likely to affect everyone if your country is a signatory to it, and I'll bet NZ's is!

    "....... the 6th Conference of the Parties to the WHO Framework Convention on Tobacco Control, which will be held on 13-18 October 2014 in Moscow."

    If it ever takes place, considering Russias' standing in world affairs right now?
     
  5. robgggg

    robgggg Full Member Verified Member

    Nov 28, 2013
    Wellington, Nz
    I contacted medsafe asking about the legality etc of nic juice and I got this as a reply -

    Hello Robert

    At the present time it is not legal for nicotine-containing e-cigarettes or solutions containing nicotine for use in e-cigarettes to be sold within New Zealand. It is also not legal for e-cigarettes and associated solutions to be sold for a therapeutic purpose (such as for smoking cessation) even if they do not contain nicotine. This is because the presence of nicotine or a a claim for a therapeutic purpose makes these products / solutions medicines and they would need to be approved for sale / supply. At the present time none have been approved. The relevant legislation is the Medicines Act 1981. The Smoke-free Environments Act 1990 also may apply.

    Online sales occurring within New Zealand or from locations in New Zealand to customers in other countries are regarded as sales within New Zealand so are not currently legal. It is, however, permissible for a customer in New Zealand to purchase an e-cigarette / solution from overseas for his or her own use for smoking cessation. It would not be legal to sell or give away any product imported through thus route.

    Medicines for sale / supply in New Zealand must first be approved through a process operated by Medsafe. This is a comprehensive assessment of the quality, safety and efficacy (effectiveness) of the product. The Medsafe website contains information on how applications can be made. The New Zealand legislation is available at New Zealand Legislation.

    The following excerpt from the Medicines Act confirms the penalties:


    20 Restrictions on sale or supply of new medicines

    (1) Except as provided in sections 25, 26(4), 28, 30, 31, and 32, this section applies to new medicines.

    (2) No person shall—
    (a) sell; or
    (b) distribute by way of gift or loan or sample or in any other way; or
    (c) advertise the availability of—
    any medicine to which this section applies before the consent or provisional consent of the Minister to the distribution of the medicine has been notified in the Gazette, or otherwise than in accordance with such conditions as may be imposed by the Minister on giving his consent or provisional consent and notified in the Gazette.

    (3) No consent given under this section shall be deemed to warrant the safety or efficacy of the medicine to which the consent relates.

    (4) A person who contravenes subsection (2) commits an offence, and is liable on conviction—
    (a) in the case of an individual, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or a fine not exceeding $20,000:
    (b) in the case of a body corporate, to a fine not exceeding $100,000.
    (5) In any proceedings for an offence against subsection (4) in which it is alleged that this section applies to a medicine by reason of subsection (1), it shall be presumed that the medicine is a medicine to which this section applies until the contrary is proved.

    (6) The provisions of this section are in addition to, and not in substitution for, the provisions of any other enactment prohibiting, regulating, or restricting the sale or distribution of medicines, and nothing in any such other enactment shall authorise any person to act in contravention of the provisions of this section; but in the event of any conflict, the provisions of this section shall prevail.

    (6A) The Minister, after having given consent or provisional consent to the distribution of any medicine in accordance with this Act, shall give written notification to the EPA of the consent or provisional consent and any condition attached to that consent.

    (7) Any consent that was given in respect of any medicine by the Minister under section 12(2) of the Food and Drug Act 1969 and in force immediately before the commencement of this Act shall be deemed for the purposes of this section and section 35 to have been given under this section.

    Compare: 1969 No 7 s 12
     
  6. gully

    gully Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 12, 2013
    New Zealand
    The first line of their reply deals with what we are talking about,consumer/recreational use but does not link to an applicable law,the rest of the reply deals with nicotine solution where a therapeutic claim has been made and includes reference to the applicable legislation but no reference for the recreational use.Splitting hairs perhaps but an interesting find.
    Doesn't really matter in a real world sense because if NZ vendors start/continue selling juice with nic I'm sure a law will be added to the books to cover it.I don't approve of the vendors that do sell nic unless they are prepared to test the law in court when the authorities attempt to reign them in and I strongly suspect they wont but will fade away with their profits leaving the rest of us to deal with the aftermath.
     
  7. robgggg

    robgggg Full Member Verified Member

    Nov 28, 2013
    Wellington, Nz
    The way I interpret it is that the nicotine itself is considered a new medicine - "This is because the presence of nicotine or a a claim for a therapeutic purpose makes these products / solutions medicines and they would need to be approved for sale / supply." - and needs approval to be sold legally under the Medicines Act 1981.
     
  8. XXYGuy

    XXYGuy Full Member

    Sep 21, 2014
    New Zealand
    Yeup I know all that, now. Nicotine is a Pharmacy Only Medicine. Basically what the fools, in Government and the Health Dep't are trying to do is make Nicotine like h*e*r*o*i*n* or c*o*c*a*i*n, however there's this wee problem of it being freely available in tobacco, tomato, and capsicum. It is also legal to grow tobacco plants. So if the fools in Government really want to crack down on nicotine as a liquid sales, they would not be advising it as legal to import ones own. I know of no other Pharmacy Only Medicine that members of the public can self administer, so I believe the Health Department representatives are lying about our right to import for our own use.

    I have my New Zealand suppliers, I don't have to wait longer then 24 hours to get it, and I can make my own in about 30 minutes! It's one of those unworkable, at present, laws that only fanatics in Government will attempt to administer.

    And by the way, Nicotine is NOT a NEW medicine and you're quoting the wrong part of the act.

    The fine for selling or distributing Nicotine is $500.00 per offence, but I bet you already know that!
     
  9. XXYGuy

    XXYGuy Full Member

    Sep 21, 2014
    New Zealand
    Even sellers who advertise their products as smoking cessation devices are breaking NZ law, however it is my belief that the gutless wonders at the Health Department would much rather go after local sellers than the tobacco companies themselves, which is why absolutely NOTHING has been done about the claims made on this New Zealand website, which is owned by the tobacco companies.

    Electronic Cigarette, Electric Cigarette, e-Cigarette, Smoking - Elusion NZ

    I have a video on how to extract nicotine from Habitrol lozenges, I wonder if it illegal to do that too? And I have been advised on how to extract the Nicotine from the patches, but initial trials suggest the advice is hogwash!
     
  10. XXYGuy

    XXYGuy Full Member

    Sep 21, 2014
    New Zealand
    In this Act, unless the context otherwise requires,—
    new medicine means—
    (a)any medicine that has not been generally available in New Zealand—
    (i)before the commencement of this Act; or
    (ii)at any time during the period of 5 years immediately preceding the date on which it is proposed to become so available:
    (b)any medicine that, immediately before the commencement of Part 2, was a therapeutic drug to which section 12 of the Food and Drug Act 1969 applied, and in respect of the sale or distribution of which the Minister had not given his consent under that section:
    (c)any medicine that becomes a medicine within the meaning of this Act for the first time after the commencement of this Act:
    (d)any medicine that is referred to the Minister under section 24(5)

    So you can see Nicotine is not a new medicine!
     
  11. gully

    gully Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 12, 2013
    New Zealand
    Just watched your youtube vid and need to make one correction,10mg/litre =1% not 10%.10%=100mg and 9% would be 90mg.

    That still means that it is legal to sell 9mg and lower without breaching the medicines act.

    Someone on KV contacted customs months ago and they confirmed that as long as it is for personal supply there is no limit on the amount you can import,they are only worried about tax.The 3 month thing comes from Aus where that is the limit.
     
  12. XXYGuy

    XXYGuy Full Member

    Sep 21, 2014
    New Zealand
    Yeup, I spent ages thinking about that, then thought, 'ahh screw it, someone will correct me' :) I think that must be there to cover the plants where nicotine occurs naturally. Anyway there are plenty of laws in NZ that aren't applied just because they're there, and I get my nicotine no problem at all. If anyone was ever dragged to court over possession of nicotine and they cited Australian law, they'd lose their case, .I think some bureaucratic upstart at the Health Department just got wind of the law and thought s/he'd apply it, without any support from his/her bosses.

    I have received shipments from overseas, and am still expecting one at the moment, and if it doesn't arrive, well I won't deal with that outfit again no matter what the reason.
     
  13. Pipesmokanz

    Pipesmokanz Full Member

    Nov 30, 2014
    Invercargill NZ
    Just been scrolling through these posts and it bought to mind the fact I can import 3 pounds of tobacco leaf, but not processed tobacco. Might have to learn how to process the nic out of the leaf and make my own juice
     
  14. gully

    gully Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 12, 2013
    New Zealand
    You can get tobacco seeds on Trade me for very little and it's pretty easy to grow,especially if you are not going to smoke it.
     
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