Ni200 degradation, not happy seeing this.

[TKS]

On my Kayfun V4 after a few hours and I went to check how things were under the hood (got lucky not seeing any serious hotspots considering I never dry burn coils).

The only issue is the tons of flakes I see making my rayon look like KGD seeded cotton. Those black flakes could also be seen all over the inner chamber of the bellcap. The issue with this whole thing is..

1) Never over 21W of power through these coils
2) 450 max temp using DNA40 with F/C revision (so recent), but still piss poor temp algorithm that fails once your done vaping and resistance falls hard thus killing any real temp control.
3) Always fired while coil was soaked, and never any dry burning as mention previously, so this thing shouldn't be reaching temps where ni200 is degrading, or hell even oxidizing from my limited knowledge (though who knows these days, and especially with the stupidity of the DNA40's horrible take on temp control to add to the unknown factor of just how hot this coil is really getting).

I did what I shouldn't have, and took a few peices of the black crap and tried to bite it too see if it was the texture of my gunky RDA drippers gunk and it was definitely not the same, and was much firmer and brittle, almost calcified. And why the .... are these coils getting so gunky in the span of a few hours anyway? Yeah my airflow is very low (and those who use RDA's can see if there is a high flow of air on a section of the coil, there is far less gunky blackness, whether that is due to the cooling factor preventing oxidation/oragnic compound breakdown within the juice, or cooling that coil enough not allowing it to reach breakdown temps; remains to be seen), so I suppose with my low airflow stuff gets gunky faster (maybe good because that means I am not inhaling so many micro gunk particulates). But jeez I would have thought sticking to a temp just above e juice vaporization would prevent this mess slightly, I guess not?

TL;DR, anyone know why nickel seems to be gunking faster than kanthal, or hell why at all when kept in low temps?

Goodness I wish I can go get a materials education and start a research fund on some of these things.

EDIT: Some pics (sorry using iPhone 6 Plus, this thing has horrid macro shots), oh and in the chamber, any black spots you see that may look like scrapes, they arent, this thing is an authentic with FLAWLESS internals to say the least).

 

[gpjoe]

I guess I should take a look at my nickel coil...I'm still using my first and haven't checked it since the initial build.

Does this happen with any juice? Just wondering if sweet or dark juices may be the culprit here.

 

[TKS]

The juices I used were mostly clear, and some with a slight tinge of yellow (after long steeping). Nothing like Creme de la Creme from Philipe Rocke or any custards. Basic ITC Vapes juice 70/30 Blueberry Blackberry Cheesecake, though I never taste anything aside from slightly sweet fruit, a great all day vape especially on mouth to lung hit setups.

This has happened in my RDA as well but I ignored it the first time.

 

[sedition]

Strange. I'd be interested to see what the coil looked like after a dry burn and rinse, whether you can anything missing from the surface of the nickel. You'd probably need a good camera with macro to be able to see it. I could be wrong, but I don't think airflow is the problem here. If coil heat (due to low airflow or anything else) were a problem, you'd know it from dry hits.

How long since you stripped the Kayfun down and cleaned it? I'm wondering if there's something in the space underneath the deck.

 

[xtwosm0kesx]

No idea whats happening here but its definitely not normal, ive never experienced any flaking or anything other than normal build-up in 6 months of running nickel, so that's very odd if its actually metal/gunk flakes.

One of my Veritas daily drivers has a 30g coil that's over 2 months old and its still holding up fine, though slightly discolored, so if it was losing large amounts of metal there would be nothing left at this point.

At this point there are enough people out there running nickel that this would've been well known if it was actually the coil breaking down, so i'm inclined to believe something else is happening here. Maybe explosive vaporization (atty pops) is breaking free chunks of coil gunk (aka caramelized sugars/flavoring)?

Have different roll of wire you could try?

Also the DNA40's temp control functions just fine, so no idea why you say its horrible.

Best of luck!

 

[TKS]

Strange. I'd be interested to see what the coil looked like after a dry burn and rinse, whether you can anything missing from the surface of the nickel. You'd probably need a good camera with macro to be able to see it. I could be wrong, but I don't think airflow is the problem here. If coil heat (due to low airflow or anything else) were a problem, you'd know it from dry hits.

How long since you stripped the Kayfun down and cleaned it? I'm wondering if there's something in the space underneath the deck.

I clean all my RDA's and mods weekly, if not then definitely every two weeks with ultra sonic, with rubber and plastics removed and hand brushed.
Oh and I dont dry burn Kanthal let alone ni200, i just dumped the thing and did a kanthal build. The only kind of dry burn I do until I get my hands on a thermal camera, is in pitch black dark and very low 1-4 watts to check for hotspots, after that, never again.

No idea whats happening here but its definitely not normal, ive never experienced any flaking or anything other than normal build-up in 6 months of running nickel, so that's very odd if its actually metal/gunk flakes.

One of my Veritas daily drivers has a 30g coil that's over 2 months old and its still holding up fine, though slightly discolored, so if it was losing large amounts of metal there would be nothing left at this point.

At this point there are enough people out there running nickel that this would've been well known if it was actually the coil breaking down, so i'm inclined to believe something else is happening here. Maybe explosive vaporization (atty pops) is breaking free chunks of coil gunk (aka caramelized sugars/flavoring)?

Have different roll of wire you could try?

Also the DNA40's temp control functions just fine, so no idea why you say its horrible.

Best of luck!

Maybe it might be that explosive vaporization idea you mention. Though where so much gunk is coming from in such a short time is beyond me. I really need to transition to unflavored and simple 3-6 MG nic juices..

I don't have another ni200 brand, only from lightning vapes.

Oh and the DNA40 can't properly keep an ohm setting and adjust based on any falls beyond the initial reading. If your like me and like to barely reach vaporisation point of e juice, this thing is a headache having to get a new reading so often after the unit cools off and ohms drop back down after initial reading. If you vape at higher watts and temp limits, then its fine I suppose.

 

[xtwosm0kesx]

2) 450 max temp using DNA40 with F/C revision (so recent), but still piss poor temp algorithm that fails once your done vaping and resistance falls hard thus killing any real temp control.

I don't have another ni200 brand, only from lightning vapes.

Oh and the DNA40 can't properly keep an ohm setting and adjust based on any falls beyond the initial reading. If your like me and like to barely reach vaporisation point of e juice, this thing is a headache having to get a new reading so often after the unit cools off and ohms drop back down after initial reading. If you vape at higher watts and temp limits, then its fine I suppose.

Well all i know is lightning vapes is the absolute cheapest NI200 you can get, so no idea whether the quality is lower but i can only assume it is, there must be lower grades of NI200 around or people wouldn't be messing with nickel purity settings. That said theres a lot of people running LV wire out there, so again if it was the wire we'd likely have heard about it.

The rest of the above statements make absolutely ZERO sense, and i vape nearly identical base settings as you, 450f @ 25w.

The DNA40's algorithm/temp control works fine.

99% of the time any changes in resistance, beyond the initial refinement, are in the connections (seriously, i can tell when my 510 has juice on it due to the resistance going up .01, clean it and its perfect again.)

The DNA40 actively monitors resistance changes throughout the firing process and refines the coils resistance on a regular basis, so what you say about "initial reading" is completely inaccurate (unless you've set the atty lock, then it wont refine).

 

[TKS]

I don't have atty lock, I just got the C/F version on my VaporFlask (idk if they come yet with the new atty lock feature). What happens is the resistance falls under the initial reading, and the vape turns cold because the power now freely flows much easier, but going under the initial reading it doesn't refresh the temp settings to accomodate, and thus it hits temp lock near 12 watts, nowhere near the actual temp of the coil. I have to either get the new reading after that in order to not have to bump the temp setting over to something like 490, to get the same vape tempurature and flavor results.

This happens much worse when I leave the unit overnight and the whole thing is cold to the touch, drops from like .15 or .14 intial reading (since building the coil and letting it cool for 15 mins), to like .11 or .09 sometimes.

 

[xtwosm0kesx]

I don't have atty lock, I just got the C/F version on my VaporFlask (idk if they come yet with the new atty lock feature). What happens is the resistance falls under the initial reading, and the vape turns cold because the power now freely flows much easier, but going under the initial reading it doesn't refresh the temp settings to accomodate, and thus it hits temp lock near 12 watts, nowhere near the actual temp of the coil. I have to either get the new reading after that in order to not have to bump the temp setting over to something like 490, to get the same vape tempurature and flavor results.

This happens much worse when I leave the unit overnight and the whole thing is cold to the touch, drops from like .15 or .14 intial reading (since building the coil and letting it cool for 15 mins), to like .11 or .09 sometimes.

This almost has to be some sort of issue with the connections inside the mod/atty because that is definitely not normal behavior, i can put my mod in the freezer for an hour and have minimal (like .01) change in resistance. A fresh coil may initially refine up or down a bit, but after that it should be semi solid unless youre poking at it, or the connections become somehow contaminated. Even if my 510/rda bottom is completely soaked in juice it will only push the resistance up .01-.02, and a cleaning instantly fixes that.

If it is an authentic VF (assume it is) you may consider contacting them and describing the behavior, maybe they would be willing to look at it, or you could always try contacting Evolv, describe the issue and see what they recommend. The VF should have a warranty and the DNA40 has a 1 year warranty through Evolv.

Best of luck!

 

[TKS]

Than you for the advice. Though I thought it was normal behavior considering reviews I've seen about the board itself. Well, I guess it's time to use that warranty.

 

[GrandSam]

That's odd, my NI200 does look like that, but after a few days. Are you sure the deck was not dirty prior to building on it?

 

[Mike 586]

If you're DNA40 doesn't have the resistance lock, I've got a pretty good idea what's happening.

With the refinement pulse, the preheat forced upon you, and bad firmware inflicted upon you what's happening can be a combination of something not making a solid connection, the refinement pulse throwing calibration out of whack and the preheat function is massively overpowering your coil for a split second.

If that sounds kinda familiar, then its your DNA40 device and there's no fix outside getting something new.

At best you can minimize the chances of it happening by ensuring 510 contact points are clean and screws are tight, but it will continue to happen on occasion and you just get used to recognizing the warning signs. When the warning signs show, you have to do the whole pull the device, let it and your DNA40 cool, the do the whole "Getting your DNA40 to recognize your atty as a new device dance", make sure its in temperature control mode, if not repeat the recognition dance, and do it all over again when the warning signs start appearing again....

...meh. I just use my DNA40 devices for regular kanthal builds and my SX Mini for temp control. YiHi at least made it predictable and somewhat reliable on the first attempt.

EDIT: If you've got resistance lock. Then I dunno

 

[TKS]

Nah resistance lock is nonsense. It increases the chance of improper calibration after cooling everything down after vaping and not taking into account if ohms naturally fall under initial resistance.

That pulse .... is ......ed. Why on earth would they thing I need instant ramp up and sacrifice my cool like that is beyond me. What a bunch of stupid ....... God this chip man...

 

[Heavyrocker]

Im happy im still on the fence about getting into TC MODS,this is still very new stuff,think ill stick with good old ''untorched'' K wire at 1.0 ohm in my KF4 set at 20 watts with 4.5 volts.Im not into vaping for massive clouds,im a flavour junkie.

 

[jefx]

Here's a strange experience i had last night:

I made a nickel coil for my Subtank Mini, in a used coil head....spaced coil, 0.22 ohm, wicked as I have done countless times. It was working decent, but providing less than desired vapor. 30W 550 F. Temp Ni.

I forced a new coil/same coil option on my eVic VT, and selected new coil....... I took a big ole lung hit..... It was the driest, burnt, harshest, nastiest hit I've ever had. Sent me into a coughing fit and gave me a weird buzz for about 30 minutes...... What the hell was that? Burning nickel? I didn't think that was possible using temp control.

I looked at the coil and wick after that and the cotton looks fine, but the nickel wire looks charred.

Does anyone have any idea what that was?

 

[TKS]

That was an uncalibrated temp control hit. Especially at 550 degrees that thing was firing at even higher temp. And since nickel has a low resistance, at 30 watts that thing fired and charred instantly.

The feeling you had for 30 mins is a mystery though. But I suppose if you went all out on the lung hit, who knows the kinda stuff you took in.

 

[jefx]

It was very odd. I won't be using that build again Lol.

 

[TKS]

Just need to get a proper readin on the coil. If it's a Dna 40, let it sit like 30 mins to be sure the chip reads the right ohms.

Do this after choosing a new coil. And yeah toss that first coil out.

 

[TKS]

Alright just had it on my subtank and BF-99 as well, .... Ni200 or this lightning vapes version, even basic clear juices are exhibiting this behavior. I refuse to inhale this crap.

 

[Mattj317]

Do you have an adjustable 510 pin? I've noticed huge changes in Ohm reading ( sometimes as much as +/- .1 Ohm), resulting in a dry hit. The problem is resolved by adjusting my pin.

I've also noticed the same black chunks as you from time to time. No idea what it is. My coils and wick have been gunking up pretty quickly as well, like within a day.