Nicotine and heart disease

[seebo]

pretty angry in general how e-cigs are being demonized and honestly i've been trying to stay away from the news about it because how angry it makes me, and despite trying to avoid the subject (reading about it) now just today i saw on the local news a new study claims nicotine in e-cigs can cause heart disease.

didn't read much into it, here's a link to the local news Nicotine in e-cigs, tobacco linked to heart disease.

just because in an example: lets say you either limit or eliminate the nicotine, surely they will still look for ways to make e-cigs look bad.. right? it's all about $$$ after all.

 

[ElectronicHookah]

lol WTNH. Most people aren't buying it. Vapor has been on the market too long now and has too many great testimonials. It really is too late for them to try anything funny without some sort of backlash.

 

[richberstler]

Nicotine is nicotine....

 

[Erncig]

I dont think we should dismiss everything thats anti ecig.

Here is what the articles says:

"The molecular pharmacology professor at Brown University exposed cells found in the heart to nicotine. After only six hours, a kind of cellular drill, called podosome rosettes formed and ate through tissue.

When this happens in the vascular smooth muscle cells which are in the middle layer of the arterial wall to the inner layer, this can cause plaque to form in atherosclerosis. This happened when Hai exposed human and rat cells to nicotine.

What that means is that the nicotine is acting like "a kind of cancer of the blood vessel which is waking up these cells and breaking them away from their surrounding matric and then migrating having an effect like it is almost like digging a hole through the wall," Hai said. "I think this is potentially very interesting and significant."

 

[Tache]

I think you might want to take a look at the study Dr. Farsalinos (Onnasis Cardiac Centre) did on the effect of e-liquids on heart cells. I've included the link to his "layman's" summary, which also contains links to the full clinical study paper.

With the exception of liquids made from steeped tobacco (as opposed to extraction) and a cinnamon flavour, there was absolutely no impact on heart cells -irrespective of the level of nicotine.

Evaluation of the cytotoxic potential of e-cigarette vapor on cultured cardiac cells: a new study

 

[Nermal]

I saw that before, Tache. Might we also mention nicotine is even found in cigarette smoke?

 

[seebo]

I dont think we should dismiss everything thats anti ecig.

i agree with that statement. actually, health has always been a concern of mine. And for certain, i'm not doubting nicotine by any means is safe, it is a chemical after all and there may be very well some issues if abused or high doeses,etc.. but, i guess my point is why aren't they putting studies out there comparing traditional cigarettes as well? it's almost as they're making e-cigs far more dangerous than analogs..

i heard that people are using e-cigs as a "pathway" to real cigarettes.. funny because i've been smoke-free for almost 2 months now !!

 

[freeatlast!]

Well, at least with ecigs, we have the option to use 0 nic if we choose to. Not an option with traditional smoking!

 

[Izan]

pretty angry in general how e-cigs are being demonized and honestly i've been trying to stay away from the news about it because how angry it makes me, and despite trying to avoid the subject (reading about it) now just today i saw on the local news a new study claims nicotine in e-cigs can cause heart disease.

didn't read much into it, here's a link to the local news Nicotine in e-cigs, tobacco linked to heart disease.

just because in an example: lets say you either limit or eliminate the nicotine, surely they will still look for ways to make e-cigs look bad.. right? it's all about $$$ after all.

More BAD science.

Did he use "pure" nicotine or CSE for his tests?
Oh...ewww...
Yeah...nothing useful here, Ming just likes his name in the news.


FUD IS FUD

Have fun
I

 

[rothenbj]

I dont think we should dismiss everything thats anti ecig.

Here is what the articles says:

"The molecular pharmacology professor at Brown University exposed cells found in the heart to nicotine. After only six hours, a kind of cellular drill, called podosome rosettes formed and ate through tissue.

When this happens in the vascular smooth muscle cells which are in the middle layer of the arterial wall to the inner layer, this can cause plaque to form in atherosclerosis. This happened when Hai exposed human and rat cells to nicotine.

What that means is that the nicotine is acting like "a kind of cancer of the blood vessel which is waking up these cells and breaking them away from their surrounding matric and then migrating having an effect like it is almost like digging a hole through the wall," Hai said. "I think this is potentially very interesting and significant."

Well that sounds like the Pharma industry must immediately pull all their NRT products off the market immediately rather than going with the latest FDA suggestions that NRT can be used as a long term alternative to smoking. You can't have it two ways. Either nicotine is a problem or it isn't.

Wait, the only good nicotine is that sold by BP, I get it. <sarcasm alert>

 

[Technohydra]

I hate this kind of pocket science, because these results are meaningless. The study reports that he used 10 times a standard dose... When will they remember that the dose, not the substance, makes the poison? Tiny amounts of radiation are harmless, larger amounts cause illness and death...

 

[rothenbj]

I hate this kind of pocket science, because these results are meaningless. The study reports that he used 10 times a standard dose... When will they remember that the dose, not the substance, makes the poison? Tiny amounts of radiation are harmless, larger amounts cause illness and death...

Even life sustaining chemical compositions, like water, at the wrong dosage is deadly.

 

[AgentAnia]

Over the years as both a smoker and a vaper, I've learned to look skeptically at all these studies (pro and con), until I have data on the the researchers (ethics, agenda, specialty appropriate to subject) and the study design, as well as who's doing the funding. Are the dosages tested realistic? Are animal tests or tests done on discrete, specific human cells reliable indicators of human reactions, and are they in fact or are they not reliable indicators of how the human body, as a complete system, would react? Do published conclusions accurately reflect the study's results? etc. etc.

One thing that is often difficult to determine is the reliability of the peer review system, which goes to individual publications, professional associations, and research institutions. Still working on that...

On my personal scorecard, at least, the ANTZ camp is losing badly... Ethics, common sense, and reason are taking the lead. Now if we could just get more of the media on board with this....

[/end ramblings, back to real world]

 

[Technohydra]

The biggest problem with the fight right now is that we haven't been given the ability to debated the ANTZ experts. We speak, and sound like whatever, and they speak and attach titles to their names. No matter what manner of horse.... they spew, some people will fall victim to the logical fault of assuming the source makes the content valid or invalid. We need to find a way to get one of our best and most educated public speakers in a one- on-one structured debate and watch them crumble.

 

[Concat]

Guys, this is actually good news. For many many years researchers have focussed on the effects of tobacco and smoking. There are many nicotine related studies, but they are almost all in regards to the immediate effects on the brain. A study that analyses the long term usage of JUST nicotine is very important to us and will help us make informed decisions about our habit.

This study was not designed to be all encompassing. The very last line speaks volumes:

"We have certain pillars in this data that shows something significant is going on here and we need to understand it better," Hai said.

That is what can be concluded. Let's not jump the gun here and make it seem he's made any iron clad conclusions. His conclusion is that the results merit further study. From what I've read, I share Hai's final sentiment regarding the study.

 

[cookiebun]

pretty angry in general how e-cigs are being demonized and honestly i've been trying to stay away from the news about it because how angry it makes me, and despite trying to avoid the subject (reading about it) now just today i saw on the local news a new study claims nicotine in e-cigs can cause heart disease.

didn't read much into it, here's a link to the local news Nicotine in e-cigs, tobacco linked to heart disease.

just because in an example: lets say you either limit or eliminate the nicotine, surely they will still look for ways to make e-cigs look bad.. right? it's all about $$$ after all.

Just because you vape doesn't mean you use nicotine.
I don't.

 

[Uma]

Their source is CNN. Nuffield said. But comments are allowed. Hurry, before they close. (I just got up, need more coffee)

 

[Bill Godshall]

I posted a comment correcting the inaccurate claims in the headline and article at
Nicotine in e-cigs, tobacco linked to heart disease

 

[Stubby]

A good piece by Carl Phillips

Chi-Ming Hai is a liar – nicotine does not cause measurable risk of CVD | Anti-THR Lies and related topics

The studies on smokeless tobacco show that nicotine is not associated with any measurable risk for heart disease.

 

[cags]

I think I have an attitude problem........

I don't care what "they" say. "they" change "their" minds too often

in the 80's we were told to eat low fat
and
BBQ, peanut butter and coffee were going to give you cancer

then in the 2000's "they" said "oh, eating low fat made us all fat" (duh)
and coffee is good for us ...

but, antibiotics & pesticides & heaven knows what else in our food is perfectly ok

I think I'll continue to follow my own instincts!