NY ban and big tobacco

[TeeFour]

TL;DR summary: Big tobacco should be with us, not against us. Just a thought.

So most of us on ECF seem to have a pretty good hunch that BT is in some part behind campaigns against PVs. Yet I do not understand why BT is not embracing ecigs and bringing them into their own product lines. There are other US-based PV manufacturers, so I am guessing the FDA couldn't stop them from making their own just yet.
Traditional tobacco is a dying industry, and BT is hanging on to the 1 in 5 americans who still smoke. Their only ideas for marketing and expanding sales are making "new" blends packaged in cool colors and coming out with snus, a miserable flop of a product.
They must be seeing sales decline as PVs catch on. So why are they trying to fight it? Are they so certain that they can win that battle? You would think they would see the potential profit in this emerging industry and bring their own products up to date with what consumers are looking for (ie PVs)
Successful companies evolve. It may be a loose comparison, but look at Sony. When the Betamax was loosing to VHS, they retooled their product line and started making high quality yet affordable VCRs. When the media started blasting fast food for being unhealthy, McDs and Wendys came out with (surprisingly decent) salads and other "healthy" options. The free market business world is full of these failure-turned-success stories.
Well smokers no longer just want analogs, they also want PVs. Many (if not most) want to go exclusively electronic. And yet big tobacco, who could ironically be our biggest ally against the FDA ban campaign, refuse to evolve as companies. They'd rather hide behind the FDA in a vain attempt to conserve their already falling profits.
So what do you think, ECF? Why is BT trying so desperately to go against the tide of consumer choice when it would be so much easier and more profitable to go with it? Am I missing some piece of legal information that would hinder this, or are they just stubborn as companies?
I'm not saying that it would necessarily be good for us if BT made their own brands of PVs, as that may bring the wrath of the FDA down on us even more. Im just wondering why the Phillip Morris board of directors hasn't yet considered this option when looking at their bottom line.

 

[EleanorR]

Actually, it's a pretty good bet that the real opposition to PVs is coming from Big Pharma, which also stands to lose billions if PVs go viral. Also, never discount that whole anti-smoking-which-morphed-into-anti-smokER phenomenon.

Many, many people just cannot STAND the idea that someone, somewhere, might be enjoying themselves (especially if it's not sinful, illegal or fattening!)

 

[zapp1982]

After the initial pattens expire i think we will see a change from BT.

 

[Airbrusher]

I am not so sure Big Tobacco is backing the FDA here. I am also not sure they don't see the future turning. As long as we use Nicotine they will live. They are well entrenched in ciggies... I feel it will take them a while to turn just based on their massive size. The Titanic saw the iceberg coming at the last minute and couldn't turn fast enough either. Give them a chance, they might be not out to get us as much as we think.

 

[NewYork]

We live in a great country with a very corrupt government that is very very greedy for our money. The truth is, We will just have to stand up for ourselves and when they try to shut down such a good life saving alternative to smoking, we have to stand up for our rights and fight back. This doesn't just go for e-cigs. There are many ideas and new improved ways of life that are shut down and destroyed by our very own government for the sole purpose of more money, more power. In the 1960's there were cars running on H2o, electricity and other alternatives to gasoline but they were all shut and sealed.

 

[CarrieM]

There was a new bill introduced to the Senate in NY that would basically make e-cig sales fall under the same rules as tobacco. No sales to minors.. Looks like some of the people in Albany have listened. CASA is working with a couple of the assembly members to have a similar bill introduced there that would take precedence over the original bill that was for banning them totally

 

[keitht253]

This is creative destruction at its finest. As new technology and ways of doing things emerge, old companies are forced to compete or they die off. However, in the country in which we live, big businesses can try to lobby for preferential government treatment. It's rent-seeking, in a nutshell. BT does well producing tobacco, and it is much easier for them to keep producing tobacco rather than have to shift gears towards this new trend, just like Airbrusher was saying.

The same thing happened with cars in the early 1900s and the horse and buggy industry. The companies behind horse and buggy transportation heavily lobbied to keep cars off of the streets. It happens again and again with many infant industries and their older, out-dated competitors. As long as we have a government that is susceptible to, and facilitates, lobbying and rent-seeking, the wheels of progress will be slowed or even stopped in some cases.

 

[TeeFour]

There was a new bill introduced to the Senate in NY that would basically make e-cig sales fall under the same rules as tobacco. No sales to minors.. Looks like some of the people in Albany have listened. CASA is working with a couple of the assembly members to have a similar bill introduced there that would take precedence over the original bill that was for banning them totally

Thats great! Frankly, I'd like to see some level of regulation and oversight of PVs and ejuice. No sales to minors is a must if just to appease the anti-smoker hounds. I'd also like to see proper study into the manufacturing processes of attys, as well as see more affordable american-made hardware. There are some pretty nasty adhesives out there, and even low levels of vaporization over time concerns me. If only the FDA could help make sure we were getting safe products (as in their job) instead of trying to keep us "safe" through the further extension of the nanny state.

 

[NewYork]

This is creative destruction at its finest. As new technology and ways of doing things emerge, old companies are forced to compete or they die off. However, in the country in which we live, big businesses can try to lobby for preferential government treatment. It's rent-seeking, in a nutshell. BT does well producing tobacco, and it is much easier for them to keep producing tobacco rather than have to shift gears towards this new trend, just like Airbrusher was saying.

The same thing happened with cars in the early 1900s and the horse and buggy industry. The companies behind horse and buggy transportation heavily lobbied to keep cars off of the streets. It happens again and again with many infant industries and their older, out-dated competitors. As long as we have a government that is susceptible to, and facilitates, lobbying and rent-seeking, the wheels of progress will be slowed or even stopped in some cases.

Very well put indeed.

 

[keitht253]

Very well put indeed.

Thanks, NewYork. My response was very similar to yours (admittedly, I did not completely read through every post in this thread before responding). Oh well, it never hurts to drive home the point

 

[deadlichik]

I can see their reasoning on this for a number of reasons. The whole bottom line is money. A struggling economy that honestly cannot take any more big business lay-offs that could be caused by people quitting a highly addictive, life threatening habit. Ciggs are $ and lots of it. Medical professionals make money treating patients with various issues caused by cigarette smokers. The U.S. and state Govts. make a mint in taxes on cigarettes with all their reasoning being to fund medical research (and major amounts going towards research on how to fatten their wallets to the max). Don't forget the payoffs to those "special" politicians that can influence others to vote like them or die by the assassin waiting in the tree outside their bedroom window for an opportunistic moment.
It could also be their way of taking on a monopoly-like status within our country. If the FDA and WHO are able to ban sales in certain areas, then they can decrease supply in demend, thus giving major tobacco companies and chance of "creating" their own version of the same thing with a few tweeks and massive amounts of regulation like only being able to have Nicotine in your PV with a prescription from your doctor with a very strict dosing regimen. Then they can shove this "SAFER" method down our throats to make us try to quit and cut us from nic sooner than one would be ready, thus starting yet another smoker/quitter cycle.
Change is a big factor as well for the reason kietht253 said.

Or maybe the paranoid schitzo in me is just having too much fun typing this rambling head spinning conspiracy theory that gets started from having a hyperactive imagination

 

[CarrieM]

Thats great! Frankly, I'd like to see some level of regulation and oversight of PVs and ejuice. No sales to minors is a must if just to appease the anti-smoker hounds. I'd also like to see proper study into the manufacturing processes of attys, as well as see more affordable american-made hardware. There are some pretty nasty adhesives out there, and even low levels of vaporization over time concerns me. If only the FDA could help make sure we were getting safe products (as in their job) instead of trying to keep us "safe" through the further extension of the nanny state.

I agree, as do many others that there needs to be some regulation of e-liquids and components. We would like the e-liquid manufacturers to test and label products appropriately. Some manufacturers are already doing this voluntarily, but there is still more to do industry wide.