Titanium wire, not kanthal
. Its resistance is about 3x lower for the same size coil. You really can't compare ti and kanthal.Ohms do matter
- Thread starter sofarsogood
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
- Status
Titanium wire, not kanthal
. Its resistance is about 3x lower for the same size coil. You really can't compare ti and kanthal.
I'm comparing them because I'm trying to get a good quality vape with out needing a pocket full of batteries. Kanthal is efficent for making heat but I'm finding temp control is desirable for rda's, which I prefer. So instead of making a dual coil build just take the same amount of wire and put it in one coil and regulate it with temp control and get lots of surface area for making vapor but at well above sub ohm resistance. As resistance rises the amount of watts needed to make given amount of vapor goes down.Titanium wire, not kanthal
I went to the evolv dna 200 forum and asked if their board would allow me to use Ti coils at 1.2 ohms. An admin answered yes so long as I don't need more than 65 watts, which I don't. The admin also said that as resistance rises from 1.2 the watts available would decline. This is good news and means I can vape these big Ti coils if that turns out to be the best solution for me.
I understand
. I was talking to another member who questioned a 1.2 ohm coil being high resistance. For titanium it is.
When that 1.2 ohm coil gets to 450 degress it's at a significantly higher ohms so it's needing less and less watts to keep it at that temperature. I'm still vaping on the first 1.2 ohm Ti coil and it's the best build for flavor and vapor quality I'm managed to produce in my 6 monhs of building (I'm not a cloud chaser). It might also be more energy efficient than any of my kanthal builds which is what I'm looking for.I understand
Here are a few more observations about this build. When I was using nickel and building .15 ohm coils I needed temperature to be 480 degrees and 40 max watts. With this 1.2 ohm Ti coil I'm getting more vapor and a better throat hit at 430 degrees and 30 max watts.
I'm sorry, but you're still not getting it. Higher resistance will require less volts to give the same watts, but in no way does a higher resistance in and by itself require less watts. Coil mass/wire type/wire gauge.
Also, titanium and nickel have different tcr's so it's no wonder that you'll need less temp with a titanium coil. With evolv-type mods you usually set the temp at 80-100 f less than with a ni200 coil (so your 480 with ni200 should be set to 380 with titanium, whereas your 430 with titanium is comparable to 530 with ni200. No wonder the titanium coil gets hotter). That's for mods that don't have a ti-mode, which the VF Mini doesn't.
Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk
The issue of ohms and efficiency is interesting. Make a coil out of 28 guage copper and fire it at 20 watts. The run time will be the same as a Ti coil of the same guage and length fired fired at the same watts. The difference is the copper coil will produce almost no vapor. It is an efficent conductor of electricity which means in part it doesn't heat up much when electricity is passing through. Kanthal, Ti, Ni, etc are used instead because they have higher resistance, they are less efficient transmitters of electricity and the by product of that inefficiency is heat. If a super conduting wire existed it would also have the same run time but not one calorie of heat would be created. Heat is what makes vapor.
No!
Sorry, but to get 20 watts through the very low resistance of the copper coil would require huge amperage. Remember P=I^2*R=I*I*R (I squared R).
Let us say the Ti coil is .2 ohms so it requires 10 amps to generate 20 watts. Now the copper is a much better conductor. Let us say that it has a resistance of .002 ohms. This would require a current of 100 amps to get 20 watts. (I chose this resistance value out of the air to make the math easy.) This will produce a good vapor until you batteries explode. If 20 watts are being used in the coil there will be lots of heat and it will vape. The power doesn't care what resistance it comes from. It just cares about power.
In real life this wouldn't work very well. The resistance of the 510 connector parts and the posts would be as much or greater than the coil resistance. Batteries can't provide this much current for long. Current control circuits for hundreds of amps are large and complex.
I feel like many people are not understanding what what SoFarSoGood is actually saying.
Okay, so here is how most TC devices work to my limmitted knowledge. A user sets a temperature right. When the user hits the fire button the watts are stepped UP until it reaches a point where the coil is too hot. Then the watts are stepped DOWN to maintain the required temperature.
What I believe SoFarSoGood is saying is this. With a high resistance(relative to most TC coils), it gets hot (stays hot longer). While it stays hot/warm due to greater mass contacting cotton/juice(look into specific heat capacity), the device does not have to step up as high to maintain temperature. Meaning the mod uses less power to maintain the temperature.
Example -
So the first hit is the most energy expensive. Say we bring the coil from 1.2ohm(room temp) to 2.4ohm(400*F) and use I don't know 1watt to 20 watts to get it there. Now the user takes a break for a second and hits the coil again. Now it's resistance is say 1.8ohm and the device uses 1watt to 7watts to maintain temperature/resistance(2.4ohm). (yes my example negates time for simplification)
Edit -
@sofarsogood - Could you do a test and bring some numbers to the table? Like do a Ti coil of 0.3ohm and use it until the battery is toast (2 or 3 times). Then do one of 1.2ohm two or three times. Maintaining a 'regular routine or something. If not I will try once my focalecig order comes.
Okay, so here is how most TC devices work to my limmitted knowledge. A user sets a temperature right. When the user hits the fire button the watts are stepped UP until it reaches a point where the coil is too hot. Then the watts are stepped DOWN to maintain the required temperature.
What I believe SoFarSoGood is saying is this. With a high resistance(relative to most TC coils), it gets hot (stays hot longer). While it stays hot/warm due to greater mass contacting cotton/juice(look into specific heat capacity), the device does not have to step up as high to maintain temperature. Meaning the mod uses less power to maintain the temperature.
Example -
So the first hit is the most energy expensive. Say we bring the coil from 1.2ohm(room temp) to 2.4ohm(400*F) and use I don't know 1watt to 20 watts to get it there. Now the user takes a break for a second and hits the coil again. Now it's resistance is say 1.8ohm and the device uses 1watt to 7watts to maintain temperature/resistance(2.4ohm). (yes my example negates time for simplification)
Edit -
@sofarsogood - Could you do a test and bring some numbers to the table? Like do a Ti coil of 0.3ohm and use it until the battery is toast (2 or 3 times). Then do one of 1.2ohm two or three times. Maintaining a 'regular routine or something. If not I will try once my focalecig order comes.
Last edited:
Your example disregards that more coil mass will require more power to reach the set temperature initially. Depending on how frequently one puffs, one or the other may be more efficient.
However, as the title highlights resistance, that's what I've commented on. Resistance, in and by itself, does not determine how efficient a coil is. Wire gauge, type, mass needs to be accounted for.
Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk
It's all too subjective. For example, I thought my Koopor Mini had terrible battery life until I compared it my VF Mini at the same settings, atty, and battery. Turns out that the Koopor actually fared better. Until proper testing can be done we need can't say that "higher resistance" is more efficient, especially as the science behind it doesn't warrant such a statement. Bigger, as in more coil mass, is a much better factor to look at than resistance.
Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk
I've always tried to build higher rather than lower ohm coils and I've been using rda's exclusively since last May. In those days I would build 1.5 ohm coils and fire them at 20 watts to get the "satisfying" vape I was looking for. The iStick 50 I used for power lasted for days. That endurance is important to me. I want to do as well with tc.
In July I got the Kangxin mini and start building nickel coils. I tried for the highest ohm 28 guage coils that would fit in my rda's which worked out to .15 ohm most of the time. To get a vape most like my kanthal builds at 20 watts I needed 480 degres and 40 max watts and that was running down the single replacable battery in less than a day. Next I got some 28 guage titanium so I could build 1.0 ohm coils. To reproduce my prefered vape I'm running the Ti coils at 420 degrees and 20 max watts. That setup is producing at least the same amount of vapor per puff. The run time is longer because 420 degrees and 20 max watts are going to run longer than 480 degrees and 40 max watts. I believe what's happening is the higher ohm coils turn electricity into heat more efficently so power can be reduced for the same result. The improved run time comes from reducing the power.
In July I got the Kangxin mini and start building nickel coils. I tried for the highest ohm 28 guage coils that would fit in my rda's which worked out to .15 ohm most of the time. To get a vape most like my kanthal builds at 20 watts I needed 480 degres and 40 max watts and that was running down the single replacable battery in less than a day. Next I got some 28 guage titanium so I could build 1.0 ohm coils. To reproduce my prefered vape I'm running the Ti coils at 420 degrees and 20 max watts. That setup is producing at least the same amount of vapor per puff. The run time is longer because 420 degrees and 20 max watts are going to run longer than 480 degrees and 40 max watts. I believe what's happening is the higher ohm coils turn electricity into heat more efficently so power can be reduced for the same result. The improved run time comes from reducing the power.
- Status
