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OK maybe THC CAN kill?!?!

Discussion in 'General Cannabis Discussion' started by ScottP, Sep 21, 2019.

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  1. ScottP

    ScottP Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 9, 2013
    Houston, TX
    He loved weed. Then the vomiting began. Months later, he died

    I am posting this to maybe raise some awareness as I had never heard of this before. Like everything else moderation is going to be key. Of course there could also be some other circumstances they didn't account for.
     
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  2. Dr. Seuss

    Dr. Seuss Super Member

    Jul 15, 2019
    It’s not understood what causes it in some people and not others. From what I’ve read though, just my opinion, it makes me think it’s something specific about the person rather than something about the chemical that causes it.

    So if I was tasked with figuring this whole thing out I would start with trying to find a common denominator about the people who show up with this issue. As a whole though thc is on the far end of the safer side of things.

    Edit: You know another thing to take into consideration is that it’s a relatively new phenomenon from what (I think) I understand. It correlates along with when the specialize breeding of cannabis plants really took off so another thing I would look for is the genetic line of the plants. There could be a specific trait that was in goal that carries along with it a passenger trait that wasn’t specifically on the radar.
     
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  3. Horselady154

    Horselady154 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 15, 2013
    United States
    Very hard to believe it was pot that killed him. More likely spice, or some chemical/pesticide added to the marijuana, in my opinion.
     
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  4. Dr. Seuss

    Dr. Seuss Super Member

    Jul 15, 2019
    Yeah, CHS being a proper diagnosis is about as firm as saying “vaping kills”. There’s enough room in that series of events listed in the article for it to not even be related to weed. During times smoking and times not smoking the symptoms still persisted. Plus, with the way it’s spelled out in the report, from what I’ve read about it, that’s not how CHS works.

    It sounds like a nurse that wasn’t even in the room hip shot a rather wide range guess out there and whoever was in “charge” ran with it. They said they stopped doing tests.

    “Another emergency room doctor poked her head in the door and asked two questions: Do you smoke marijuana often? Do you take frequent hot showers?”

    How many people does that apply to? Anyone like ice cream too?
     
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  5. ScottP

    ScottP Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 9, 2013
    Houston, TX
    I agree with both of you. I mentioned their may be other circumstances. To be clear, I am not trying to sound any alarms, I just want to make sure that people are aware of this just in case. Even if it only occurs when 1% of people use one single very specific strain, if they know that this is a risk and what symptoms to watch for, it might just save their life. If others use every day for 100 years and never see any symptoms, then great for them.
     
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  6. Dr. Seuss

    Dr. Seuss Super Member

    Jul 15, 2019
    There’s something else, I remember it being in the news maybe two years ago and I think it was linked up with CHS too and that is screaming. They nicknamed it “screaming disease” or something. This is going back a ways so it’s hazy for me.

    Here it is, “scromiting”.
    A mysterious illness is affecting some marijuana smokers
     
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  7. Sloth Tonight

    Sloth Tonight CF Moderator Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jun 25, 2014
    Adirondacks
    This reminds me of the last cat I had - maybe it had found my stash...

    "SEVERE SCREAMING" - :lol:
     
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  8. stratus.vaping

    stratus.vaping Super Member ECF Veteran

    Thanks for the reminder about this syndrome or whatever it is. I'm surprised that it hasn't been picked up and used as another weapon to make us bleed.

    Some personal thoughts; every activity & response of our bodies are electro-chemical in some way. With that in mind I would, as someone else said above, suggest that it could be a cannabinoid receptor being confused in some way. In a very very small sample of users.

    There seem to be similarities here with whatever process it is that causes the very tiny group of people who, allegedly, "become" schizophrenic after using THC cannabis. It's a tiny sample of users, nobody has been able to determine any of the what, where and why of that either.

    Then again, I had a friend many years ago who, seemingly balanced and stable before hand, started using cannabis heavily and became very disturbed and conflicted in a short period of time. He then took :censored: at a UK festival in the 70s - he never came down from it, we lost him completely, he spent the rest of his life addicted to Largactil and so on prescribed in order that he could walk around and vaguely function, sectioned in a hospital.

    Pre-disposition? Who knows?

    << Goes off to research this, even though I haven't got the time. Another rabbit hole!
     
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  9. Egzoset

    Egzoset Full Member

    Sep 19, 2014
    Canada
    Salutations Horselady154,

    Who would gladly volunteer to inhale cannabis ("legal" or otherwise) knowing it's been sprayed with myclobutanil which once heated transforms into Hydrogen Cyanide (HCN), a "Schedule-3" poison of the Chemical Weapons Convention, also known as Zyklon (cyclone) in death camps around 1942 ~ 1944?...

    M'well, low and behold: Canadians LPs as Hexo (formerly Hydropothecary) did actually discuss the use of BANNED pesticides privately and even managed to keep their license after doing just that while Health Canada remained contemplative! Some officials complaining about popular chemiophobia with 96+ pesticides approved, as i recall.

    Hexo-Hydropothecary, 120 De la Rive rd, Gatineau, Qc J8M 1V2 (45.5370033,-75.4193073) [480x300] .PNG
    LeDroit & iHeart Radio - Poissons morts de cause inconnue (2019-Jul-11) [480x270] .PNG

    The funny punch being that Hydropothecary went as far as to promise "kosher", about in the same period when they finally changed this company's name as to put similar mass-poisoning reminescence behind!

    ...

    Good day, have fun!! :cool:
     
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  10. NGAHaze

    NGAHaze Infinity Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Dec 13, 2010
    Georgia
    And yet Snoop still walks among us. :blink:
     
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  11. Dr. Seuss

    Dr. Seuss Super Member

    Jul 15, 2019
    Just for clarification, psychedelics are not known to cause schizophrenia, but can agitate the condition into becoming present in people who have it already but show no symptoms.

    Given the nature of what psychedelics are it seems that on an already unstable mindset they can be the bump that knocks a person’s mindset off balance. But it’s not the cause of the schizophrenia.

    So it’s important to know if you have any history of schizophrenia in your family it’s best to stay away from partaking in any psychs.
     
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  12. stratus.vaping

    stratus.vaping Super Member ECF Veteran

    Yes I agree, my comment was about cannabis & schizophrenia, I also believe that suggests some kind of pre-disposition.

    My friend who took that tab simply left the planet and never came back. No diagnosis. Happened to a few famous musicians too, inc a Fleetwood Mac guitarist iirc.

    I never had a problem with it.

    Some of my friends disagree ...Burble burble burble woosh.
     
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  13. stratus.vaping

    stratus.vaping Super Member ECF Veteran

    Myclobutanil is a nasty fungicide. Fungus is one of the very few problems that can occur with growing hemp or cannabis, usually caused by inadequate ventilation, so fungicides may well be used if things go wrong and the growers have no real expertise or are lazy.

    iirc there are no real nuisance pests for the hemp/cannabis family so pesticides should not be needed, particularly as most illegal growing is indoor.

    That's why I insist on certified organic CBD etc or I have personally inspected the grow 8)
     
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  14. stols001

    stols001 Mistress of the Dark Nicotinic Arts Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 30, 2017
    Tucson, AZ
    Well I did some reading I was genuinely fascinated.

    It appears that in most users, it's cyclical. It is a diagnosis based primarily on SYMPTOMS no one is 100% sure how it works. It is not typically fatal, and from what I read, only became a diagnosis in 2004.

    I read a really long and complicated paper on NCBI and well, they don't really know how it works either but they had some pretty graphs and stuff to look at.

    Prevalence appears quite low but of COURSE it is "Under diagnosed."

    IDK if I smoked cannabis and every time I started puking my guts out I would probably stop smoking it, not think "cannabis is not POSSIBLY the cause, even slightly" and just keep SMOKING it, at least not without doing some research on my SYMPTOMS and the disease was NOT hard to find at ALL.

    So look, here's a kid smoking illegal MJ and it's all cool with his mom because he is part of some "weed" club so he's just left like getting high with his buds (in both senses) and mommy has no idea where the weed is coming from or anything or much knowledge of MJ at ALL NOR apparently ANY thought that "Oh gosh maybe I should google my son's symptoms you know, properly to see if this has EVER HAPPENED BEFORE."

    Hmm. Like I said, I love kids. I love them dearly, and whether it was THAT which killed him off or something else, I have to say.

    IF SOMETHING APPEARS TO BE KILLING YOU STOP DOING IT.

    That's what I had to do with cigarettes. It wasn't FUN. Neither is an oxygen tank. THANK GOD for vaping.

    But, Darwin wins again. Another kid, that in my opinion did not MORALLY deserve to die but as an autodidact, perhaps I judge these things HARSHLY, etc, but you know.... You GOT SOMETHING GOING ON LOOK IT UP it WILL HELP YOU FIGURE OUT WHAT TO DO.

    So, yeah, another kid who "deserved" to die. Not because he was a BAD KID necessarily maybe he was Just Lovely but MOM, I'm sorry it's YOUR job to safeguard your kid's well being. I'm sorry you didn't want to tell the kid to knock off the illegal drug use, but hey, you know he would have been MAD at you. That's... Uncomfortable but it won't actually KILL you like it did him. Would it.

    I also love how the magical diagnosis was discovered AFTER his death. If his docs were so on top of crap they would have figured it out BEFORE.

    They have no way of proving what killed that kid besides "I am a stupid teenager and my mom wants me to have friends, even if I do illegal things with them and I am showing signs of SEVERE illness." It could have been.... ANYTHING.

    Jesus. Parents today. You know what? The first time my two year old told me he hated me I was SUPER thrilled. I told him he could not do something, and then he wandered past and said "I HATE YOU MOM!"

    LOL I told him I was proud he could express his emotions (in 2 year old talk) and that he had EVERY right in the world to hate me for as LONG as he needed to but he wasn't getting his way.

    I was thrilled. He was developing as an individual with the ability to hate me, and I actually felt GREAT. I was like, I AM PARENTING.

    IF your kid doesn't hate you SOME of the time, and make you miserable, you are DOING it wrong. Instead of being SO SCARED your kid won't love you, embrace the hate. YOU are supposed to PARENT and your KID is ALLOWED to hate you and you should celebrate it.

    Anna
     
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  15. Sloth Tonight

    Sloth Tonight CF Moderator Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jun 25, 2014
    Adirondacks
    Marijuana is considered to be a mild psychedelic. Erowid Cannabis (Marijuana) Vault

    It doesn't really cause the kind of effects we typically associate with psychedelics, but it shares some elements. In very large doses and in certain individuals, those effects can be more pronounced. That's why Dr. Seuss mentioned that because yes, it works the same for cannabis (can agitate pre-disposed psychological issues but not directly cause them).

    I also had a friend who took psychedelics and lost his marbles. That boy's gone into orbit. He's the only one of my friends who had that kind of reaction after experimenting with those kinds of substances. I haven't seen him in many years but I imagine he's somewhere around Pluto at the moment.
     
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  16. Dr. Seuss

    Dr. Seuss Super Member

    Jul 15, 2019
    Edit: I ramble..:pop:

    @stols001, I’m not entirely sure this kid should get a darwin award or not. From just the short article it sounds like he was a victim of either misdiagnosis or really no diagnosis at all. It mentions an emergency room but no real follow up by a specialist. Emergency rooms are good for broken arms and obvious things like that but anything further and it has to be dealt with by a specialist and they just kind of threw him out the door. It sounds like in the hustle of things they just slapped whatever was convenient on him and sent him along. The reason he continued to smoke was probably because there was no real correlation between smoking and the illness for him so it’s like, he continued to wear shoes despite the symptoms... because there was no obvious correlation between him wearing shoes and his illness.

    Kind of a sad series of events really, so they blame weed.
     
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  17. stratus.vaping

    stratus.vaping Super Member ECF Veteran


    Yes, certainly it can, Temple Balls, in Tibet 1974 are ingrained in my mind, cerebral and trippy. A different mode of activity than those other substances ofc but I agree, similar results on rare occasions. I was just being pedantic in my reply as usual 8)
     
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  18. Vapntime

    Vapntime Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 22, 2013
    Brisbane, Australia
    Ok few things cannabis can cause psychosis in individuals without any other psychotic illness (pre or post) the psychosis disappears 99% of the the time when the individual stops using cannabis after a short period, which may or may not include the use of antipsychotics.

    Cannabis can 'agitate' predisposed psychiatric illness not psychological. It can also 'agitate' (i like this word now) bipolar mood swings either or mixed in persons with diagnosed or undiagnosed bipolar variants. Interestingly CBD can also cause bipolar swings and mania etc, but would be very unlikely to cause psychosis. I will post some links when I get the time.

    I am not anti cannabis these incidents are very well in the minority and this is important information for those that suffer with mental illness. I know people with schizophrenia which have no issues with cbd/thc but i have seen the occurrence of mania in Bipolar with CBD alone.

    Cannabis-Induced Psychosis: A Review
    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0366(19)30086-0/fulltext
    Does cannabis cause mental illness? | NDARC - National Drug and Alcohol Research Centre
    Dispensary cannabidiol marijuana and first-episode mania
     
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  19. Dr. Seuss

    Dr. Seuss Super Member

    Jul 15, 2019
    Cannabis’ psychedelic side really comes out when you ingest it through edibles. The thc ends up going through your liver and being converted to 11-hydroxy-metabolite which is somewhere around 3-5x more potent than thc (Joe Rogan anyone?) so depending on your intentions you can go one roa or another and get different results from it.
     
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  20. Dr. Seuss

    Dr. Seuss Super Member

    Jul 15, 2019
    @Vapntime, I just saw your post. I didn’t know that about cbd. I’d be interested in the whole mechanics behind what’s causing that. For the most part I thought it was pretty benign in that regard.:thumb:
     

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