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OK maybe THC CAN kill?!?!

Discussion in 'General Cannabis Discussion' started by ScottP, Sep 21, 2019.

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  1. stratus.vaping

    stratus.vaping Super Member ECF Veteran


    jeez what a nightmare. This seems to be about myclobutanil contamination. As I mentioned elsewhere it's a fungicide ( I believe that is it's only horticultural use), if they have to use it they are crap growers. Awful situation.

    Wonder why the press there sometimes say it's a pesticide? Stupidity or what?
     
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  2. Kprthevapr

    Kprthevapr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 1, 2015
    On the River, GA
    If grown indoors in a climate controlled environment, there's no need for any pesticides. Keeping your rooms at 78° keeps bugs and fungus out. Granted, unless you veg for a month or so the yield won't be as much as outdoor, but product will be much better.
     
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  3. Egzoset

    Egzoset Full Member

    Sep 19, 2014
    Canada
    Salutations Sloth Tonight,
    Salutations Stratus.Vaping,

    Affirmative, and i also happen to be looking for a volunteer who'd be willing to INDEPENDENTLY DUPLICATE & PEER REVIEW semi-DiY vaporist experiments i've published around the net since the creation of my alias in 2010. Assuming it were possible to protect each other's private identity i actually happen to have a fully customized Bronze/Sherlock VG pipe inherited from a guy who's now driven into the consumption of other substances. It's illustrated below:

    Egzoset's Cust. VG Pipes - 2019 Summer Solstice Ed. [640x480] .PNG

    This is a pair of "Prototyping Platforms" demonstrating what i call "Micro-Bursting", combined to approximative "Packetization" of the "Heat Charge" so it fits its intended bowl Workload in an attempt to discriminately target trichomes based on contact surface, etc...

    Anyway you'll find some e-Cig related considerations posted in the Cannabis Forum section, with more details spread elsewhere, as on my Hack-a-Day pages. Etc., etc.

    IMHO it's simply because Health Canada put it on a list of pesticides:

    [ https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/publications/drugs-health-products/cannabis-testing-pesticide-list-limits.html ]
    Mandatory cannabis testing for pesticide active ingredients - List and limits

    One other interesting detail being about a previously BANNED "pesticide" now apparently tolerated if concentrations range around the minimal target identified by Hexo/Hydropothecary a few years ago already... As far as i'm concerned it's still turning into HCN (e.g. Zyklon gas) and i can only imagine how many more "traces" remain open to similar criticism as mine!

    Good day, have fun!! :cool:
     
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  4. ScottP

    ScottP Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 9, 2013
    Houston, TX
    Informative post, but now I think trying to read all those colors gave me eye cancer.
     
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  5. Egzoset

    Egzoset Full Member

    Sep 19, 2014
    Canada
    Salutations ScottP,

    Integral quoting does something similar to me but i won't say where it hurts.

    :sleep:
     
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  6. RoseB

    RoseB Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 3, 2012
    Washington
    Some black market growers will spray their crops with anything. Some of the legal sprays are in the very least, questionable.
    The leading cause of death: we all die of something eventually ;)
     
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  7. Egzoset

    Egzoset Full Member

    Sep 19, 2014
    Canada
  8. DJ Colonel Corn

    DJ Colonel Corn The Vapor Ninja Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Ohhh quite the contrary.
    Spider mites, thrips, aphids... just to name a few !
    Pesticides are sadly widely used, especially in indoor cannabis gardens.
    Some go an alternative route and use predatory insects to devour the problem insects.
    However, it's been discovered that smoking the feces of those predatory bugs is quite bad for humans.
    Do most people know this ? No. If they do know it, will they stop the practice ? Possibly, possibly not.
    I have seen growers spray copious amounts of Eagle 20 (fungicide) right onto mature flowers (outdoor crop).
    Terrible situation... at least in California our cannabis (in the dispensaries) are tested for fungicides, pesticides, mold, chemical fertilizers, before they can be sold.
    I feel bad for the other places in this country and world that don't have this in place.
    The more you know, the better off you'll be.
     
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  9. stratus.vaping

    stratus.vaping Super Member ECF Veteran

    @DJ Colonel Corn Maybe so, I was speaking of my personal experiences, you have seen it yourself so I bow to your experience in the USA (?)

    Never in Europe, in my direct experience of growing outdoor ( a lot, a lot lot... impossible now), in the 1970s did I see any "nuisance" infestation of anything. I had some aphid, but not much of a problem, a few ladybirds kept them under control. I had more problems with roaming deer eating whole plants!

    I have used organic methods for growing everything since I started in 1969 with veg, never used anything nasty, in 3 different fairly mild climates around the world, I have never grown in the USA.

    So I guess the USA situation must be different then, more humid, hotter, fewer predators, birds etc = more pests? I still know a few outdoor hobby stealth growers in UK, they don't have serious problems.

    If you have to spray anything you are doing it wrong basically, indoor particularly. A problem may be that indoor illegal crops of any scale find it hard to vent air outside ( it stinks!) so humidity can be much too high = mould.
    Skill level is low, profit motive rules, spray everything all the time just in case & use slave locked in illegal immigrants to tend it. The grows are heavily artificially fertilsed ofc, with growth hormones and day/night cycle controlled.

    I haven't touched street THC for many decades because of all that as I have mentioned before. CBD product I use has to have fully checkable lab reports inc chemical residues, not easy to find sadly.

    So, I must add a rider to my posts more often= YMMV, in my experience etc!
     
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  10. Tabac man

    Tabac man Super Member

    May 24, 2019
    London
    My dad had a fairly comprehensive garden when I was growing up in the sixties and seventies. He used pesticides with gay abandon on our veg because he had to or it wouldn't survive. Worms, slugs, snails, caterpillars, green fly, butterfly's you name it, were all around in abundance. It had to be done. In the West coast of Scotland anyway. Never did me any harm.

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Egzoset

    Egzoset Full Member

    Sep 19, 2014
    Canada
    Salutations,

    Simple basic questions:

    1. Can trichome glands get faked?
    2. Would it pass microscope inspection??
    ;)

    Bonus question:

    1. Of those 2 "largest nugget of a deal" which one was "legal" from SQdC???
    Guess which one was the largest legal nugget from SQdC [300x400] .PNG

    :pop:

    Now imagine vegetal debris...

    Good day, have fun!! :cool:
     
  12. stratus.vaping

    stratus.vaping Super Member ECF Veteran

    The image is waaaay too fuzzy to see anything 8) Fake trichomes? I can't see why anyone would bother, they arrive naturally if grown correctly. They may have not a great deal in them, a lab report would tell you about that.
     
  13. Egzoset

    Egzoset Full Member

    Sep 19, 2014
    Canada
    Salutations Stratus.Vaping,

    Certainly not fuzzy enough to erase all evidence that one of those 2 nuggets is ~3 times the size of the other (and that's only about size or there wouldn't have been a need to include any ruler as some hint in between)....

    M'well, i thought that was an easy question. Personally i've seen nuggets which had their trichome glands "tumbled", once even "blasted", though i yet got to hear of fake trichomes that look like this, mechanically speaking:

    African Tom (2015-Dec-16) [640x480] .PNG

    Besides nugget size another early sign which i like to appreciate is its calixes, then after using a grinder i'd say texture needs to be a mix mostly reminescent of salt & sugar as when the atmosphere feels slightly damp, complemented with some screaching sound as i stirr it up.

    Trichomes in principle or those in my previous pair of samples?

    In any case my consumption method is focussed on trichome glands.

    Good day, have fun!! :cool:
     
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  14. stratus.vaping

    stratus.vaping Super Member ECF Veteran

    Ah you mean bud that has the trichome contents removed! Tumbled eh, good description. I would have thought that the flowers would be damaged a lot more though.

    I have never seen that, but ofc it would be worthwhile to do it, if you were a shark. I have never dealt with sharks.

    Keep on pressing 8)
     
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  15. Egzoset

    Egzoset Full Member

    Sep 19, 2014
    Canada
    High again Stratus.Vaping,

    My previous sample was OKay, actually it dates back to "the good old days" BEFORE "Légaleezation"... Alternately, rest assured it was no pleasant photo session trying to capture any composite snapshot as what's shown next...

    Although that ain't part of my routine neither i decided to give it a try:

    MedRelief (THC-centric) vs Aphria (Full-CBD) [400x300] .PNG

    This is a typical response given to those who dare ask for lots of THC with aroma/taste features and some light amount of CBD. Industrially processed, clearly overpriced & overtaxed. Which is a punishment for supporting the new "legal" system, pretending to "save" the lost statistically-elusive kids of planet Itnoc.

    My initial point still being that oil looks like oil looks like oil looks like oil, e.g. dealing with oil it's simply too convenient for sharks to fake oil exactly.

    Good day, have fun!! :cool:
     
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  16. casuald00d

    casuald00d Senior Member ECF Veteran

    yeah okay... and some people are allergic to water: Aquagenic urticaria | Genetic and Rare Diseases Information Center (GARD) – an NCATS Program

    i always hear about how avocados are a "super food" and yet when i eat them i develop hives, swelling, etc. in other words, i'm allergic to avocados. so what's good for one person is not necessarily good for everyone. that's my takeaway from this. i think the same can be said for vaping. personally, i've found that certain e-liquids, perhaps it's the flavorings used, don't mesh well with me. they give me a strange feeling in my lungs when i vape them so i stay away from them and stick to ones that don't seem to cause any apparent issues.
     
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  17. DJ Colonel Corn

    DJ Colonel Corn The Vapor Ninja Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    I could almost envy you !
    That's quite impressive. Sadly, I haven't been as fortunate.
    The compound that is causing the 'cyanide release' in THC cartridges is a fungicide known in USA as Eagle 20, which has been banned in California (people can still order it online however). It's used to combat 'powdery mildew', a fungus that attacks plants here. Happens indoor and outdoor, usually caused by overcrowding or poor ventilation, as you said.
    The problem is, when you concentrate cannabis, you also concentrate any chemicals used.
    It also concentrates other things we thought harmless, such as, predatory bugs' feces.
    Turns out some can be quite dangerous.

    So, vapers, I found THIS today coming out of Tennessee....(image below)
    I have to say here that in over 55 years of hash oil vaping in USA and over 130 years of recorded hash oil vaping, there has been very few cases of 'Acute Lipoid Pneumonia'.
    I find all of this quite suspect.
    However, here it is, feel free to share with the CAVEAT that 'acute lipoid penumonia' may not be the actual problem we're facing, it has not yet been fully determined the cause of 'vaping pnuemonia', as far as I know.
    Here's the image (click on it to see full size):

    [​IMG]

    I'm going to contact tnsmokefree.org about this image, to tell them we don't know if its lipoid pneumonia or not. Seems a shame to damage the name of hashish (why is that censored, hash is ok but h-a-s-h-i-s-h has not been removed from the banned words list yet, contacted moderator) (EDIT: the word 'hashish' has been un-censored, thanks !) like that.
    I personally have vaped extreme amounts of hash oil in various forms, albeit very few cartridges, with no sign of pneumonia or anything else, for seven years solid.
    I find hashish is much better on my lungs as there is less material consumed for equal medication levels.
    All the best !
     
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  18. Egzoset

    Egzoset Full Member

    Sep 19, 2014
    Canada
    Salutations DJ Colonel Corn,

    Here's one item which has changed quite significantly in recent months:

    The article explains that such apparent quality improvement only reflects a potentially dangerous adaptation, also pointing out that failed "legal" products become "illegal" ones as i recall...

    Absolutely correct, and the problem with it is that the numerous effects don't just add up: they multiply, much the same as alcohol vs precribed medication for example. Then there's another elephant in the room few members seem prepared to consider: cooking.

    Which is why i now believe although the "pen" format was very popular so far you people need to redesign the atomizer in order to remove as much Conductive Heat as possible. After all such repeated exposure at the contact surface of a coil to high temperature must be expected to promote all sorts of secondary reactions NOT intended in the initial e-Cig invention.

    So, as i already pointed out, the most obvious solution to me seems to be to maximize the value of natural trichome glands as this happens to be effective filtration biologically performed on a molecular basis already. Starting from there i'd also strongly suggest to take advantage of such trichome quantization in tandem with a "packetized" Convective Heat source with its baking effect radically limited to a minimum between 2 tokes.

    The technology existed for nearly 30-some years and it's readily compatible with the most basic form of IH-driver imaginable. Which by the way somehow makes me wonder if the negative slope illustrated above donesn't also coïncide with recent improvement of the battery technology, still in absence of metered dosing in the consumption method.

    In any case, government officials blaming the "illicit" market are only broadcasting a slim part of the reality, not to mention there's non "legal" cannabis of such high quality it makes no sense to compare anyway since it's a matter of trusting the cultivator's skills and motivations: e.g. it wasn't failure to pay taxes that killed but greed in the 1st place.

    Now lets see if contaminated mari-caca kills users of the other consumption methods as well. Maybe not as fast, yet eventually. Then common features as baking shall provide supplement hints hopefully...

    Good day, have fun!! :cool:
     
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  19. Sloth Tonight

    Sloth Tonight CF Moderator Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jun 25, 2014
    Adirondacks
    Hashish has been uncensored :thumb:
     
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  20. Egzoset

    Egzoset Full Member

    Sep 19, 2014
    Canada
    Salutations DJ Colonel Corn,

    That's the case in Canada as well and this September article of the Daily Star confirms the ban:

    [ https:// www.dailystar.co.uk/news/world-news/black-market-cannabis-vapes-china-20321313 ]
    DS: Black market cannabis vapes from China found to contain cyanide (2019-Sep-28)

    Myclobutanil is banned in Canada, Colorado, Washington, and Oregon for the production of medical and recreational marijuana.

    Which seems relative as there are at least 4 "full-registered" products listed as Nova (#22399), Eagle (#26585), Myclobutanil (#27916), Golden Eagle (#29974). All from Dow AgroSciences Canada, Inc.:

    Health Canada pesticides with Myclobutanil (2019-Aug-25) [640x400] .PNG

    So it's still going to be around for a long while, except i get the persistent feeling that "mandatory cannabis testing for pesticide active ingredients" and "limits of quantification" might require deceiphering performed by a professional lawyer to fully appreciate the exact wording... Because in the end what's banned is not unless myclobutanil non-detection "traces" is no myclobutanil anymore, then beware of ingredients kept secret simply because not "active"!

    That's some kind of cat 'n mouse head games worthy of a red flag IMO. What i think this really means is that it's OKay to spray using practically anything provided the "traces" won't trigger an alarm, which just doesn't correspond to my own definition of a ban. Also i find Health Canada's history was less than "negligible", to recycle their own term... Not to mention that even if there's an alarm the LPs remain in business anyway.

    :?:

    By chance investors ain't this accomodating so i keep hoping in due justice being rendered eventually, the sooner the better.

    Good day, have fun!!
     
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