Old coils accelerating cotton wick aging?

[Ionori]

Lately I've found myself rewicking my RTAs very frequently, so much so that I've had to start using some of my old tanks just to get 1-2 days worth of vaping. I got a new tank today and after putting 30ml of liquid through it the wicks seem almost new. I used to be able to go for a week or longer on a single tank without rewicking, now I only get about 5 hours before I have to switch to a new tank. I rewick them all at the same time, and when I do the wicks are almost completely black and the coil is covered in residue, which I burn off by dry burning (must have dry burned each coil at least 50 times now), then I rinse the coils off. I'm using stainless steel coils with 4 flat cores wrapped with thin round wire.

Has anybody noticed that coils that have been in use for a long time make wicks age faster?

 

[stols001]

Yes. You need to recoil your tanks more frequently dude. I know, I hate doing it too but they payoff is worth it.

Anna

 

[ShowMeTwice]

Lately I've found myself rewicking my RTAs very frequently, so much so that I've had to start using some of my old tanks just to get 1-2 days worth of vaping. I got a new tank today and after putting 30ml of liquid through it the wicks seem almost new. I used to be able to go for a week or longer on a single tank without rewicking, now I only get about 5 hours before I have to switch to a new tank. I rewick them all at the same time, and when I do the wicks are almost completely black and the coil is covered in residue, which I burn off by dry burning (must have dry burned each coil at least 50 times now), then I rinse the coils off. I'm using stainless steel coils with 4 flat cores wrapped with thin round wire.

Has anybody noticed that coils that have been in use for a long time make wicks age faster?

Nope. I have ss316L clapton's in several RTA's + RDA's that are 6 months old and a couple that are approaching 8 months. My wicks last the same amount of time. No premature wick aging. Flavor is on par with a new clapton, excellent.

If ss316L clapton's are maintained properly they will last.

What wattage are you dry burning your coils at? Too high is bad.

Are you lighting them up to a bright orange or red glow? If so that's your issue.

SS316L coils should be dry fired at 10-25w in short pulses (0.5-1.0 sec) and the coil should only get to a faint dull orange.

I dry burn 316L at 14-20w. Run a trickle of water into the coil and repeat a couple times. Brush coil off and rewick.

Never go to bright orange or red with ss316L.

If you get ss316L too hot it will damage the wire and bad oxides form.

Here, from AVS, ss316L tips and watch the video at bottom of the page.
Stainless Steel Coil & Wire Instructions and Tips

He has another...


Good luck!

ETA: Just for reference: I get 10-14 days per wick with flavored juices. Up to ~24 with unflavored. That's using rayon or cotton.

 

[Ionori]

Yes. You need to recoil your tanks more frequently dude. I know, I hate doing it too but they payoff is worth it.

Anna

I'll rebuild one of the tanks and test it out, thanks!

Nope. I have ss316L clapton's in several RTA's + RDA's that are 6 months old and a couple that are approaching 8 months. My wicks last the same amount of time. No premature wick aging. Flavor is on par with a new clapton, excellent.

If ss316L clapton's are maintained properly they will last.

What wattage are you dry burning your coils at? Too high is bad.

Are you lighting them up to a bright orange or red glow? If so that's your issue.

SS316L coils should be dry fired at 10-25w in short pulses (0.5-1.0 sec) and the coil should only get to a faint dull orange.

I dry burn 316L at 14-20w. Run a trickle of water into the coil and repeat a couple times. Brush coil off and rewick.

Never go to bright orange or red with ss316L.

If you get ss316L too hot it will damage the wire and bad oxides form.

Here, from AVS, ss316L tips and watch the video at bottom of the page.
Stainless Steel Coil & Wire Instructions and Tips

He has another...


Good luck!

ETA: Just for reference: I get 10-14 days per wick with flavored juices. Up to ~24 with unflavored. That's using rayon or cotton.

I guess I go harder than I should when burning off the residue. Some of my SS coils are dark brown. Maybe I should consider my liquid as a potential culprit for the accelerated wick aging. Thanks!

P.S. If you have any more in-depth information about oxide formation during dry burning, I'd appreciate it, searching the web only turned up a study saying "don't worry about it" and a fairly basic article by a chemist.

 

[ShowMeTwice]

I guess I go harder than I should when burning off the residue. Some of my SS coils are dark brown. Maybe I should consider my liquid as a potential culprit for the accelerated wick aging. Thanks!

P.S. If you have any more in-depth information about oxide formation during dry burning, I'd appreciate it, searching the web only turned up a study saying "don't worry about it" and a fairly basic article by a chemist.

You're most welcome!

My flavored DIY juices never run higher than ~12% total flavorings and I avoid any sweeteners/additives.

If you were vaping the same juice when you were getting a week or longer on a wick I wouldn't think your juice would be the issue. Unless something changed with it.

Are your juices retail or DIY? I found retail juices to be too heavy on flavors and those will gunk up coils and trash wicks quicker. Especially if they're real sweet. NET's too.

Curious, have you changed the brand of wick you use or is it the same?

As an alternative have you considered trying a different brand???

I just googled "vape ss316L oxide formation" and got several hits.

 

[ShowMeTwice]

I'll rebuild one of the tanks and test it out, thanks!

I dry burned and rewicked one of mine this afternoon. My coil is 5 months old. The RDA is used on a squonker. The wire is Lightning Vapes 26/36 ss316L at 0.4Ω.

After rewicking it vapes fine. My juice is a DIY multi vanilla/cream. Flavor is excellent.

 

[Ionori]

You're most welcome!

My flavored DIY juices never run higher than ~12% total flavorings and I avoid any sweeteners/additives.

If you were vaping the same juice when you were getting a week or longer on a wick I wouldn't think your juice would be the issue. Unless something changed with it.

Are your juices retail or DIY? I found retail juices to be too heavy on flavors and those will gunk up coils and trash wicks quicker. Especially if they're real sweet. NET's too.

Curious, have you changed the brand of wick you use or is it the same?

As an alternative have you considered trying a different brand???

I just googled "vape ss316L oxide formation" and got several hits.

I used to mix my own 100% PG 0 nic juice, now I vape a line of fruity liquids with methol at 70/30 pg/vg 3mg/ml nic. They are quite sweet, in fact after vaping without removing residue and rewicking the sweetness becomes dominant while other flavors are muted. After installing coils on the new RTA I noticed that the juice tasted a lot better on it than it did on old coils in other atomizers, and about as good as it did the firm time I vaped that juice. Maybe I failed to remove the residue collected inside the exotic coil while dry burning them. I think I'll try a plain round wire build for one of the other RTAs and see if dry burning them does a better job of letting the flavor come through, and will use a brush to clean exotic coils when dry burning, as well as being more conservative with the power while dry burning.

I've been using a bag of square Japanese cottons pads for years (about 1/4 used up now).

 

[Mordacai]

@ShowMeTwice, I beleive that the temps that a coil can reach when dry burning to the extreme are not high enough to form toxic compounds.

I think that it's more to do with the thermal stress and metal aging, as over use I've noticed that SS increases in resistance. So the molecules that make up the wire have separated somewhat.

 

[AngeNZ]

I used to mix my own 100% PG 0 nic juice, now I vape a line of fruity liquids with methol at 70/30 pg/vg 3mg/ml nic. They are quite sweet, in fact after vaping without removing residue and rewicking the sweetness becomes dominant while other flavors are muted. After installing coils on the new RTA I noticed that the juice tasted a lot better on it than it did on old coils in other atomizers, and about as good as it did the firm time I vaped that juice. Maybe I failed to remove the residue collected inside the exotic coil while dry burning them. I think I'll try a plain round wire build for one of the other RTAs and see if dry burning them does a better job of letting the flavor come through, and will use a brush to clean exotic coils when dry burning, as well as being more conservative with the power while dry burning.

I've been using a bag of square Japanese cottons pads for years (about 1/4 used up now).

I'm a fan of sweet juices, so I'm well used to having to clean my coils. A wire brush like this:
$2.00 Authentic XFKM Stainless Steel Cleaning Brush for E-Cigarette (2-Pack) 2-pack - 90mm height at FastTech - Free Shipping
will make the world of difference in getting the stuff off your claptons.
These are handy for clean inside coils, and airflow tubes etc on your attys:
$1.46 Mini Cleaning Brushes for E-Cigarettes (5-Piece) - black at FastTech - Free Shipping

 

[DaveP]

I dry burned and rewicked one of mine this afternoon. My coil is 5 months old. The RDA is used on a squonker. The wire is Lightning Vapes 26/36 ss316L at 0.4Ω.
View attachment 888679
After rewicking it vapes fine. My juice is a DIY multi vanilla/cream. Flavor is excellent.

I'll have to try the Lightning Vapes wound wire SS316L. Do you get better flavor from that wire compared to standard single strand SS316L? It certainly looks like there would be more contact surface for the juice.

How does it perform with a rayon or cotton wick?

 

[ShowMeTwice]

I'll have to try the Lightning Vapes wound wire SS316L. Do you get better flavor from that wire compared to standard single strand SS316L? It certainly looks like there would be more contact surface for the juice.

How does it perform with a rayon or cotton wick?

Yes, I get better flavor with it over single strand SS316L. I use rayon (Tidi balls) and cotton (Mavaton's and Carolina Blend). All perform well with claptons.

Lightning Vapes is now WireOptim but run by the same people. I think they just wanted to get the 'Vapes' part out going forward with deeming. I also use wire from Advanced Vape Supply and KbeeVapes. All offer quality USA made wire.

 

[DaveP]

Yes, I get better flavor with it over single strand SS316L. I use rayon (Tidi balls) and cotton (Mavaton's and Carolina Blend). All perform well with claptons.

Lightning Vapes is now WireOptim but run by the same people. I think they just wanted to get the 'Vapes' part out going forward with deeming. I also use wire from Advanced Vape Supply and KbeeVapes. All offer quality USA made wire.

Strange how the market is having to adapt to fit the FDA model. It's sure feeding the frenzy to get stocked up. I have a couple of 100' foot rolls of 28 and 26 gauge SS316. Single coil SS is the easy way to longevity in coil winding. I might order and try the coiled SS316L for the flavor hit. It could easily be my new wire choice.

 

[AvaOrchid]

Lately I've found myself rewicking my RTAs very frequently, so much so that I've had to start using some of my old tanks just to get 1-2 days worth of vaping. I got a new tank today and after putting 30ml of liquid through it the wicks seem almost new. I used to be able to go for a week or longer on a single tank without rewicking, now I only get about 5 hours before I have to switch to a new tank. I rewick them all at the same time, and when I do the wicks are almost completely black and the coil is covered in residue, which I burn off by dry burning (must have dry burned each coil at least 50 times now), then I rinse the coils off. I'm using stainless steel coils with 4 flat cores wrapped with thin round wire.

Has anybody noticed that coils that have been in use for a long time make wicks age faster?

I've only been using rebuildable since October and to be honest there are a few devices that I still have the same coils on since October however the actual amount of time that I've used those devices is way less then the time it's been since I installed if you get what I mean. I've maybe used them for two or three weeks and have of course changed the wicking but never the coil.

In my most used devices I don't think I would push it past 3 months and that's if the coil looks perfect. And even then I wouldn't be using it every day of that three months because I use multiple devices. Even if you can't see that there's a jaggedness or pitting to the metal in your coil I guarantee there is. If you were to take it under a microscope you would see something resembling a rocky path more than a smooth piece of metal. And the more use you get out of it and the more times you dry burn t
the more it's going to damage the metal.

You can get a lot of use out of a coil it's really super economical but when you start seeing performance issues it's time to change your coil. Go ahead and pull the coils put some new coils in there and that should solve the whole problem.

 

[ShowMeTwice]

Strange how the market is having to adapt to fit the FDA model. It's sure feeding the frenzy to get stocked up. I have a couple of 100' foot rolls of 28 and 26 gauge SS316. Single coil SS is the easy way to longevity in coil winding. I might order and try the coiled SS316L for the flavor hit. It could easily be my new wire choice.

It is strange. I give them credit for finding novel ways around big gov. With everything going on I wouldn't be surprised to see the date get pushed back again. Sure would help those just getting into vaping and some here who are still stocking up. I still use 28g, 26g, 24g 316L from TEMCo direct (100' ~6 bucks ea). Free shipping and fast too. Also USA made wire. I still pop a kanthal coil in here and there.

 

[DaveP]

I've slowed down on dry burning coils in the last couple of years after reading the reports about coils breaking down and delivering microscopic metal particles possibly into the vapor. When I change wicks now I water wash the coil without dry burning, If it's not smooth, I recoil and then wick.

 

[Mordacai]

I've found 0.2 mm thick flat wire to be good for vapour and flavour production, just it's hard to find certain widths such as 0.6 mm. But not impossible.

 

[vaper1960]

I guess I go harder than I should when burning off the residue. Some of my SS coils are dark brown. Maybe I should consider my liquid as a potential culprit for the accelerated wick aging. Thanks!

I'm going with the e-juice as the culprit. I put new coils (pre-made) in two identical tanks (and coils) the one with sweeter juices crapped out sooner. Same thing with my RTAs (one difference is when my RTAs are getting close to needing new wicks, I push the watts a bit higher... that backfired on me... both wick and coils suffered) As mentioned, don't push a "dry-fire" too hard... not needed anyway... a nice orange glow is all that's needed and do it in short pulses. Maybe just re-wick more often before the coil get yucky.

 

[vaper1960]

I've found 0.2 mm thick flat wire to be good for vapour and flavour production, just it's hard to find certain widths such as 0.6 mm. But not impossible.

Haven't tried "flat wire" but wish I could (my build decks won't allow it... except my one RDA that I don't use much) Many people have convinced me that simple "flat" wire (actually rectangular like 3mm x 9mm) can perform just as well as fancy designs. Much easier to clean too.

 

[Mordacai]

0.3 mm × 0.9 mm has a little too much mass and surface area in contact with the wicking for me @vaper1960.

I have some 0.2 mm × 0.8 mm and I keep on toasting wicking with it, even though I've tried everything to resolve it.

 

[AngeNZ]

@ShowMeTwice, I beleive that the temps that a coil can reach when dry burning to the extreme are not high enough to form toxic compounds.

I think that it's more to do with the thermal stress and metal aging, as over use I've noticed that SS increases in resistance. So the molecules that make up the wire have separated somewhat.

This post:

There are some changes in austenitic SS after prolonged heating, like in grain size, . But it does not influence it's properties as a heating element. 316L is rated in heat resistance at about 1700F (900C), which is close to typical temperature of dry burning. Dark color after dry burning is due not to metal properties, but to contamination - cindered ashes of flavors, cotton and such. May be even of VG and PG (I am not sure).
A few years ago I took a look at a kanthal coil after dry burning; if you are interested it's here: Coil under electron microscope

explains it more clearly exactly what happens.
This thread is fascinating viewing:
Coil under electron microscope