Only 3 possible ways to dilute Malto Crystals ?

[rockyroad]

At least this is my understanding so far. I could use PGA, PG, or possibly VG.
The Crystals came in the mail today but I want to wait before mixing until I can get a few things clear in my head.
I have read that I should use half of a teaspoon in a 15 ml. bottle then fill with Ever Clear. I have also read a quarter teaspoon in a 10 ml. bottle then add E.C. next step to heat the liquid. I've read microwave, hot water, some kind of coffee hot plate..not sure what that last one is. then let it cool and whatever doesn't mix into the liquid will reform at the bottom of the bottle. Then draw off the liquid from the top, leaving the reformed crystals in the bottom of the bottle to re-use..>does this mean I can add more P.G.A. to the reformed crystals to make more E.M.?
I will personally use a 30 ml. bottle to do this as I would like to have plenty on hand for experimenting. So I am thinking 1 teaspoon in the 30 ml. bottle. I cannot use P.G. so I will add P.G.A. to the rest of the bottle. Cap it, shake it up, and could I just boil a pan of hot water, remove the water from the stove, then place the bottled malto mix into the water? if so for how long...and or does it need to be boiled? would hot tap water work and for how long?

After I see the crystals have dissolved into the P.G.A. can I speed up the cool down process by placing in the fridge or freezer...would that work? I'm assuming the amount of crystals used in the P.G.A.to dissolve does not have to be an exact measurement since they reform at the bottom anyway. Is that true?
Once the crystals reform would there be any point in heating the same batch again (meaning repeating the process with the original mix to try and get the maximum 12.5 percent solution?

I'll try with P.G.A. first and see how this works...if there is anything you could help me with as far as the process and my understanding of it, please, please, jump in here and help me out.
I'll try V.G. after I get a better understanding of how this works....thanks for your help

 

[Nikhil]

Conceptually it's similar to making kool-aid or sugar water. If you heat the liquid, you can dissolve more into it. As it cools, it will try to crystallize, but it will stay dissolved at the highest possible concentration that the solvent liquid allows.

EM doesn't dissolve well at all in VG or water, dissolves well in PG, and better in PGA.

 

[rockyroad]

OK Nikhil I put a half teaspoon in a 15 ml. bottle then added E.C. to just about the top which would be about 19 ml. shook a few times. Went to work and now it's 8 hrs. later. No crystals have reformed in the bottle....should I add more?

 

[Nikhil]

If you want. Like Kool-Aid, it doesn't really matter if there are some crystals at the bottom - you can just add more liquid when you're low.

 

[rockyroad]

Thanks for the response back Nikhil. I do get the kool-aid thing. I guess my concern is that if crystals are not forming at the bottom after it cools and sits for 8 hrs. How do I know I have the maximum percentage of 12.5?

 

[Nikhil]

You don't.

 

[jdvorr]

I just add it in when I'm mixing my liquids. It dissolves in a half a day or so. I'm mixing about 50/50 PG/VG & it always dissolves just fine. Then I know exactly how much I'm adding & I don't get the PGA in the mix, if I don't want it.

 

[banjo]

Here is a thread on the subject: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/59922-help-ethyl-maltol-solution.html - hope this is some help.

 

[rockyroad]

You don't.

I just add it in when I'm mixing my liquids. It dissolves in a half a day or so. I'm mixing about 50/50 PG/VG & it always dissolves just fine. Then I know exactly how much I'm adding & I don't get the PGA in the mix, if I don't want it.

Thanks jd , I wish I could use pg but seems I cannot for irritable reasons. Even the 190 proof I'm using to dilute the crystals in causes my mouth to become irritated if I use too much.

Here is a thread on the subject: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/59922-help-ethyl-maltol-solution.html - hope this is some help.

Nice find Banjo and a good thread. Dan said something about vg could also be used...here is a quote from him..

Ok, the filling the bottle with crystals you are refering to is for menthol crystals. EM has always been 1/4tsp per 10ml. Yes you can add it to straight PG, PG/VG mix or straight VG. The only problem with the VG is increased absorbtion time. Run in under hot water and shake the heck out of it and let it sit. It could take aup to a day to dissolve.
Hope that clears it up.
Dan

of course unless he is referring to the menthol crystals. I did put a little over a quarter teaspoon in a 15 ml. bottle of straight vg. I am ready to run under hot water again for the 5th time and shake.......it appears as if some have dissolved but this could take a very long while as most of the crystals are still waving to me from the bottom.

 

[Nikhil]

Actually the solubility limit for VG is much lower, so you can't dissolve nearly as much in VG as in PGA (probably around 4 times less). Doesn't matter how long you wait. Like I said before, EM doesn't dissolve well at all in VG or water, dissolves well in PG, and better in PGA.

Thanks for the response back Nikhil. I do get the kool-aid thing. I guess my concern is that if crystals are not forming at the bottom after it cools and sits for 8 hrs. How do I know I have the maximum percentage of 12.5?

You don't.

Well, you don't know unless crystals do form.

 

[rockyroad]

So your saying I should add more to the mix(crystals that is) warm it up, let them dissolve and when it cools if there are crystals reforming then I have done it.....12.5 percent. Is that right?

 

[Nikhil]

Yep, that should do it.

 

[Springbird]

Rockyroad, thank you, you always make me laugh. If your using just VG in your mixes, how about getting as much EM as you can to dissolve in it and then substitute the VG with EM in it for some of the VG in your mix. If you would have used 5 mLs of VG(without EM) use 4 mLs with EM and 1mL without.
I do a 50/50 mix, so there is a limit on how much VG can be used but, I'm thinking that if it's all VG then you should be able to get it strong enough by using lots of VG with EM. This way you could get out of the irritating PGA issue.
Nikhil correct me if I am wrong.

 

[rockyroad]

Yes Nikhil please correct her if she is wrong and then please explain to me what she just said...thanks

 

[Nikhil]

Yeah that would work, since if you use, for example, the PG-based Cotton Candy flavor from PA at 10%, you are really getting about 1% total EM in your liquid (the Cotton Candy is 10% EM, 10%*10% = 1%). What Springbird is saying is you can dilute the EM at 2-3% in VG, then use that in your liquid at 30-50% to get the same amount of total EM in the liquid as you would with a PG-based or PGA-based EM solution (2%*50%=1%).

You will just have to experiment with it and see how much VG-based EM you need to get the level you want, since you can't know very accurately what percent the EM dilutes into the VG.

 

[GoodDog]

I've diluted nearly 1/2 tsp of EM in 10 mls of VG and it only leaves a few crystals at the bottom but it takes several days to get it to dissolve. It was quite a hassle with that amount and from now on I think I'll stick to PG. I also thought of adding a small amount of the crystals directly to my mix in a clear glass bottle so I could see if it all dissolves. Can't imagine it wouldn't unless I add too much.

Bob, I think EM is fairly forgiving at the amounts we use. I wouldn't be too concerned as long as you get in the general vicinity of the quantity you want. At first I was adding a drop at a time of the 10% but never noticed a difference. Now I add my amounts based on the flavor I'm trying to achieve. For instance, I would use more in a milk chocolate recipe than in a dark chocolate recipe from the start.

 

[Springbird]

Rockyroad, sorry that was confusing. Nikhil, thanks for making it clearer.

 

[rockyroad]

Yes thanks Nikhil and no worries Springbird, now when I re-read it I understand it. I nuked that bottle of crystals in VG for about 8 seconds and all the crystals dissolved. None have appeared in the bottom yet(about 7 hours). I feel like I'm in science class again. I'll see just how long it takes to reform in vg.