Opinions wanted. Am I a tobacco user or not?

[SnowDog]

In my short time on this forum I have learned that the nicotine in most, if not all, e-liquid containing nicotine is extracted from the tobacco plant.

My health insurance carrier which is through my employer requires participants to sign a document stating whether or not they are tobacco users. They charge an extra $60 a month for each person on the plan that is a tobacco user, including spouses. We can make changes to the document if we stop using tobacco and the company will then waive the additional fee.

My wife and I have both quit using analogs and we both vape now instead. I smoked a pipe too until about three weeks ago but I have given that up as well.

I won't lie to my employer but I'm thinking that the extra $120 a month would be nice to have if I am entitled to it. I do not consider us tobacco users anymore but I'm not sure how my employer or the insurance company feels about this. I know that the most practical thing for me to do is to simply ask my employer about this but I'm afraid to because I think I know what their answer will be.

What do you folks think? Are my wife and I still tobacco users or not?

 

[Penn]

The opinion of anyone here isn't relevant. Your answer is in how do they define it. If it just states "tobacco user" with no definition of what that is, you are not a tobacco user. There are a few ways they could phrase it to mean anything derived from tobacco.

So to answer your question with another question, what is the exact phrasing?

 

[RobinBanks]

Depends....

Are they going to be testing you? Then, unfortunately, yes you are a tobacco user.
Otherwise I'd be inclined to answer "no", having decided myself that they have not yet taken e-cigs into consideration.

 

[YKruss]

As Penn stated you're not tobacco user because FDA doesn't put e-cig under tobacco category yet.

 

[spartanstew]

I'm surprised you can change your status as soon as you stop using tobacco. Most insurance companies don't give you a break until you've been off tobacco for 3-5 years.

 

[samuraijill]

I have to sign this same document and have a basic wellness checkup annually for my health insurance, and the financial penalties if I don't are much, much more severe.

In fact, the original implementation of that policy is what led me here and to vaping.

For what it's worth, my company considers me tobacco free on ecigs and even reimbursed me for my first year's vape supplies.

 

[Penn]

Depends....

Are they going to be testing you? Then, unfortunately, yes you are a tobacco user.
Otherwise I'd be inclined to answer "no", having decided myself that they have not yet taken e-cigs into consideration.

Too much plausible deniability. If the juice has a cleanly extracted nicotine, no other chemicals from tobacco are in them. Nicotine is in a LOT of foods. If you test positive for nicotine, you could easily claim it is a false reading due to your high intake of eggplant.

 

[RobinBanks]

For what it's worth, my company considers me tobacco free on ecigs and even reimbursed me for my first year's vape supplies.

Holy crap. That's awesome!!

 

[RobinBanks]

Too much plausible deniability. If the juice has a cleanly extracted nicotine, no other chemicals from tobacco are in them. Nicotine is in a LOT of foods. If you test positive for nicotine, you could easily claim it is a false reading due to your high intake of eggplant.

Hey, I agree that nic juice is not the same, but if tested you're going to have to state your case when the nic shows up or try to go zero nic for a bit.

 

[WarHawk-AVG]

Is the nicotine in the solution actually extracted from tobacco or synthesized?

Kinda like rubber vs polybutadiene

Are they extracting the essential oils from tobacco like this
http://www.wikihow.com/Make-Essential-Oils

or what?

And if they are extracted from tobacco is "big tobacco" really loosing out on market share?

 

[samuraijill]

Holy crap. That's awesome!!

Yes. Yes it was. Wish they would do it again now that I really know what I love and need! I vaped cheap juice back then...

 

[Penn]

Is the nicotine in the solution actually extracted from tobacco or synthesized?

Kinda like rubber vs polybutadiene

I haven't researched it myself but I have heard synthetic nicotine isn't viable for our uses.

 

[3rdear11]

Isn't there nicotine in potatoes, too. Not just tobacco...

Sorry, somebody already posted that, duh. But still

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk 4

 

[Exhaler]

I would check their web site or written full policy and look at the fine print under tobacco usage for vapor usage. If nicotine showed up in a blood test and you said you did not use tobacco, you might be in trouble if you or your wife is having a major medical problem possibly caused by past analog usage.
If anything I would let them know you are a vapor user but no longer use analogs.

 

[Tmartin63]

My wife and I have had this exact discussion. My employer asks the same question "Are you a tobacco user?" I answer no. Because I do not use tobacco. Her employer asks "Are you a tobacco user?" but she cant answer no because they do blood work. They look for Cotinine, a by product of nicotine. I argue that they need to test for "TABACCO" or ask the question "Are you a nicotine user?". I am curious to see low long before a court decides the answer to this question.

 

[Rickajho]

Sigh... You really need to find out what the rules are for the game you are playing. Under any circumstances - no, you are no longer a tobacco user. You are only using one component of tobacco - the nicotine extracted from it. Unfortunately, that technicality may not matter. It's stupid.

If the insurance co. still believes there is nothing wrong with trusting people and all they want is an answer to that question about tobacco use, check "no" and answer it guilt free.

If the insurance co. is of the type that says a positive test for cotine means you are a lying ....... chain smoker then you can still answer "no" and decide if you want to debate the matter. You will have to keep and show all your receipts for your vape gear, pull up the current findings from CASAA, perhaps bring in a letter from your MD in support of what you are doing, and argue your case that vaping nicotine is not the same thing burning processed tobacco. (You know it isn't.) There was one ECF member in another thread about this topic who actually won over a "pee in a cup" insurance co. when he argued his case. So we know at least one person has managed to drub some common sense into at least one insurance co. regarding this matter, without having to bring it to the level of a law suit.

Ask what the policy viewpoint is on vaping versus tobacco. It's the only way you will know what you are up against.

 

[SnowDog]

The document asks specifically if we are "Tobacco Users". There are boxes to check for Tobacco User and Non Tobacco User.

A few years ago, back when I did smoke analogs, we had a representative from the insurance company at work to answer any questions we might have. I asked him what would happen if I claimed "Non Tobacco User" and then contracted a smoking related disease. He told me that it has nothing to do with coverage. I would still be covered the same as anyone else but I might lose my job for lying to my employer.

Since then I have discovered that my insurance plan is employer funded. In other words they pay all of the expenses and only use the insurance company as sort of a middle man, so to speak. They have never tested any of our employees for nicotine as far as I know.

 

[Fishtec]

As Penn stated you're not tobacco user because FDA doesn't put e-cig under tobacco category yet.

But certain insurers and companies do

 

[Penn]

But certain insurers and companies do

That was my actual point. If that particular one does, it is their responsibility to disclose it.

 

[Fishtec]

That was my actual point. If that particular one does, it is their responsibility to disclose it.

Ah fair dos mate its a blurry line and it needs making clearer