Organic vs Artificial Flavors

[BadHabit]

I have yet to try the organic flavors. I have some questions:

1) Do they taste noticeably different from artificial flavors? Can someone explain in what way they taste different?
2) Do any of the flavors contain diacetyl (is that artificial by the way)?
3) How is the TH with the 100% VG (BTW, is the VG organic too)?
4) Do they have an ill-effect on the atty?

Thanks to all.

 

[Annette Rogers]

Hello, BadHabit! To answer your questions: Yes, the organic flavors taste very different from artificial flavors. The most notable way is that they don't have a chemical taste to them. They taste like nature intended, like the real thing. The difference is quite noticeable. On the diacetyl question, I have recently been doing a lot of research on this issue. Diacetyl is not the only concern as there are a number of other compounds with similar issues including acetoins, proprionyl and diketones. I contacted the main company I use for my flavorings and, even after finally speaking directly with the CEO, they are claiming trade secrets and will not give me an answer as to whether the flavors contain any of these compounds. I have recently contacted several labs to find out if it is possible to test the flavors myself, but I do not have a definitive answer yet. It is my understanding that diacetyl and these various analogues are not chemicals but are naturally occurring so this is an important question but one I have yet to resolve. As for throat hit, since for me TH is somewhat subjective based on how much you personally like, it's difficult to say. VG definitely produces less TH in general. I do offer 50/50 or 80/20 PG VG blends as well, so you can select these for more throat hit if desired. The VG is not organic. I went back and forth on this issue, but the organic VG that is available is not USP or pharmaceutical grade. It is available primarily for organic skin care applications. So, while I like the fact that it is organically sourced, I feel it is more important that VG be purified to pharmaceutical grade for use in electronic cigarettes. I hope that UPS organic VG will be available and recently contacted a company to find out if they would be willing to make a batch for me so I hope to be able to have the best of both worlds at some point soon. Lastly, no, the organic flavors do not have an ill effect on atomizers. I also thin my VG so it will not clog atomizers and most of my flavors are quite clear or only very lightly colored.

 

[kittypie]

I can speak to the taste and TH.

Pure, clean, flavors; no icky articifical or chemical aftertaste. As an example: last night I filled a carto with a free sample juice I received from another vendor, in Fuzzy Navel. The taste was okay at first, but after just a few puffs my mouth felt coated with a lingering, cloying aftertaste that is well, very distasteful to me. This does not happen to me with ANY of the VV flavors, even though they are quite strongly flavored.

I order Annette's juices at extra flavor, Ex-Hi nic, at 80/20 and experience satisfying throat hit. I've vaped her 100%VG and while the TH was a little less satisfying, the plumes and plumes of vapor almost made up for it!

 

[BadHabit]

Annette,

Thank you for your reply. When you find out more information about the Diacetyl issues as well as any progress you make on organic USP (VG), please post on this thread. I am sure they are many of us on the board interested in your progress.

It would aslo be cool if someone can come up with a TH replacement for PG.

Kittypie, thank you for your feedback.

 

[Annette Rogers]

BadHabit, I'll definitely keep you updated. Also, there are a few tricks for increasing TH without PG. Obviously nicotine level is a big influence and so is flavor strength. But some people also use a little bit of pure grain alcohol to get more TH with 100% VG. You want to use the purest, highest proof PGA you can, so I'd try something like Everclear found at your local liquor store. It can definitely make a significant difference. Hope this helps!

 

[CUOFFRDGA]

My .02, let it set another week.

I got VV Black Cherry Marshmallow.
Week 1, Very Strong Aftertaste, have me a headache.
Week 2, Aftertaste dieing down, still giving me a headache.
Week 3, Aftertaste Gone, No Headache, Taste Yummy.
Week 4 put last couple drops in carto. AMAZING and I'm out, just my luck!

I also had the same results with the Bananas Fosters

 

[jeffree]

It's strange in a way, BH, but I haven't tasted flavors from any other supplier that seem as pure and potent as VV's. I assume that's because of the organic flavoring. I've also noticed that the heavier, sweeter vapor of VG is so satisfying that I have no trouble giving up a bit of TH. I still remember how my first big drag of VV's all-VG chocolate cake nearly knocked me over with its flav intensity and huge clouds of vape. Who needs PG with performance like that?

 

[AaronY]

Organic vs Artificial Flavors actually means the world of difference in ejuice. The flavors I have tried are not perfumy and can be more in you face. Not sure on the health effects. Virgin Vapor and most credible juice makers do not use diacetyl. I do 1/2 ecopure base and 1/2 PG. The ecopure base has a better throat hit and makes flavors shine more than just VG IMHO. A bit more expensive but worth it. Know how some apples taste like cardboard? Lots of flavors from tpa and FA taste off like that to me. The organic flavors are way better.

 

[Iowa Gal]

Jeffree couldn't agree with you more. When I first ordered from VV I did the 80/20 mix...then decided to try the 100% VG and honestly in regards to flavor could tell no difference..and for me I just felt better so now I'm in your circle. Aren't you the lucky one My biggest challenge at this point is finding the perfect hardware...testing different things, but for me keep going back to the cartos.

 

[jeffree]

Hooray, Iowa! The army grows.

And yes, couldn't agree more about finding the correct hardware. These VV juices, combined with the correct hardware, are truly gourmet. For me, finding that gear 'sweet spot' took some time and dough, but no regrets.

 

[rootwhacker]

Hooray, Iowa! The army grows.

And yes, couldn't agree more about finding the correct hardware. These VV juices, combined with the correct hardware, are truly gourmet. For me, finding that gear 'sweet spot' took some time and dough, but no regrets.

Ain't that the truth? I think I've finally settled in on my hardware to where I'll actually be saving money now (compared to my historical analog spending). Now it's all about the juice!

 

[kittypie]

Hooray, Iowa! The army grows.

And yes, couldn't agree more about finding the correct hardware. These VV juices, combined with the correct hardware, are truly gourmet. For me, finding that gear 'sweet spot' took some time and dough, but no regrets.

Jeffree, what gear do you use to vape VV?

Rootwhacker, same question...

Thanks!

 

[rootwhacker]

Jeffree, what gear do you use to vape VV?

Rootwhacker, same question...

Thanks!

Hi Kittypie,
I have a variable voltage (or more correctly a selectable voltage battery) with 3.2V, 3.7V and 4.2V settings, I usually use the 3.7V setting, although some flavors come alive at 4.2V (like the eggnog). I'm using what I guess you'd call a tank clearomizer called a Vision Extreme mini or regular at 2.8 ohms from a competitor's site. I've tried the giant and it was just too big, and didn't like the micro size at all (I don't think the wicks could keep up with my vaping style, got the burned taste in a couple of puffs, and 3 out of 5 leaked). I'm trying out Annette's sapphire buds right now but they're not coming in with a blue ribbon compared to the vision extremes. The sapphires so far seem to add a plastic taste that might go away after awhile, but so far no. They haven't leaked a drop, though, either internally down to the battery or externally, which is a plus over the visions. The visions do tend to drip down the air tube, and the mouthpiece accumulates liquid but does a good job of keeping juice out of your mouth.

Too much info, or would you like more?

 

[Larkfour]

Thanks for the info on the Vision Extremes. I just may give those a try.

 

[BadHabit]

I've also noticed that the heavier, sweeter vapor of VG is so satisfying that I have no trouble giving up a bit of TH. I still remember how my first big drag of VV's all-VG chocolate cake nearly knocked me over with its flav intensity and huge clouds of vape. Who needs PG with performance like that?

I have tried vaping with both PG and VG in various mixtures as well as 100% VG. IMO, the VG helps bring out the flavor as it is sweeter. If you mix a flavoring oil into water and drink it, it does not taste like it smells. If you add sugar to the water, you then "taste" the flavor. As most flavors are supposed to be sweet, the use of VG indeed helps to bring out the flavor. But there is a slightly noticable loss of TH if used without PG. However, I suspect that if the concentartion of flavoring is high enough, the flavoring itself can give you more TH. Minty flavors no doubt offer this sort of a kick. As I would assume VV's kona flavors probably do that too, although I have yet to try them.

Can someone fill me in on which of VV's flavors have the best TH?

 

[Rar]

My .02, let it set another week.

I got VV Black Cherry Marshmallow.
Week 1, Very Strong Aftertaste, have me a headache.
Week 2, Aftertaste dieing down, still giving me a headache.
Week 3, Aftertaste Gone, No Headache, Taste Yummy.
Week 4 put last couple drops in carto. AMAZING and I'm out, just my luck!

I also had the same results with the Bananas Fosters

Why do you think you have a headache, Cuoffrdga? That's odd! Maybe overvaping?

 

[Running Wolf]

BadHabit, I'll definitely keep you updated. <<<snip>>> But some people also use a little bit of pure grain alcohol to get more TH with 100% VG. You want to use the purest, highest proof PGA you can, so I'd try something like Everclear found at your local liquor store. It can definitely make a significant difference. Hope this helps!

Saw something that had some hot pepper extract in it for some extra throat hit. I just saw it as an option on a juice site I was looking at. Forget where cause I was looking for some nicotine base juice to experiment with.

I'm sure the hot pepper extract would be a hit and miss and something to experiment with. I'd be a bit scared to try it on my own because that hot pepper sensation I like while eating might not be so fun in my chest when it hits my lungs.

That chemical taste of the flavor is what turned me off and totally burnt me out on the flavored coffees.

I'm not into organic food for the reason a lot of folks are. To me I figure the closer to nature and the less 'processed' something is the less chance it will have something bad in it. It will have less things to cause an allergic reaction. All along that lines. Plus if someone offered you an 50% synthetic apple along with a real locally grown apple which one would you choose to eat?

 

[Deborahsu]

I hate to burst your bubble, Wolf ... but "closer to nature" means that there IS a chance for allergy. Chemicals can cause sensitivities, but that's a different thing entirely. Personally, I'd rather risk allergy ... it's easier to recognize and avoid if necessary.

 

[Running Wolf]

Not sure of the technical semantics of sensitivity vs allergies so will accept what you said.

Same here with the allergies. Sometimes an allergy can be lessened (like how eating local honey put the pollen in your body so you get used it.... lessens the effects of "hay fever").... put of course it depends on the person and allergy. Doing that for pollen allergies OK, eating a reeces peanut butter cup to try to lessen your life threatening allergy to peanuts, not such a good idea.

 

[Deborahsu]

I'm sorry. I wasn't clear ... or didn't explain well. I do know that allergies can be life-threatening. What I meant was that allergies tend to be known by the time we're old enough to vape (thus easier to recognize), so if a person wanted to be super-careful, they'd simply avoid any flavor that MAY contain flavorings from the foods they're allergic to--though it seems unlikely to me that the protein molecules which trigger allergy would make it into a flavor extract. I could be wrong about that, of course.

On the other hand chemical sensitivities actually seem to expand through a lifetime of exposure, and tend to be more difficult to pinpoint. This is why I see allergies to organic vape juice to be less of a threat than sensitivity to chemicals in the artificially flavored ones. Additionally, most artificially flavored juices seem to use artificial sugar substitutes, and I am absolutely certain that those are dangerous to health even without sensitivity to them.

I hope this makes more sense.