PACT act and smokeless tobacco

[Stubby]

It appears as if this bill will go to the senate floor for a vote, and you can bet your fathers favorite pipe it will pass. The politicos love this one. I've been trying to get information on what this means for smokeless tobacco users. It's not the end of the world. I got this info from a snus forum.

This is a statement from Swedish Match

If the PACT Act were to pass, online sales of snus would be impacted, but not prohibited.

In summary, the PACT Act requires that companies that engage in direct to consumer sales: (a) age verify consumers both at the time the consumer places an order and also arrange for a private carrier to age verify on delivery; (b) register with the States; (c) provide to the States reports that list consumers to whom they have sold cigarettes or smokeless tobacco products; and (d) collect and remit State excise taxes.

While we are voicing our concern over the legislation we are also preparing to work within the system that the Congress sets up to ensure that you still will be able to buy a full range of products.

BR/
Markus and Joakim
Swedish Match AB @ SnusCENTRAL.org
Joakim

Manufacturer

And this from UPS

Thank you for your question about shipping tobacco products. UPS appreciates the business of all its customers, and makes every prudent effort to provide for their needs. The following are specific limitations for the shipment of tobacco products within the UPS system:

- Shipments of tobacco products will only be accepted from licensed dealers or distributors.

- Shipments of tobacco products from consumers are prohibited.

- Shipping of tobacco products from licensed dealers and distributors to consumers will be a contract only service.

- Shipments between licensed dealers or distributors will not require a contract.

- Shipments of tobacco products cannot be shipped using One Time Pickup or On Call Pickups.


As a result of these changes, tobacco products can not be shipped from any UPS retail shipping outlet. The UPS retail shipping outlets are: locations of The UPS Store or Mail Boxes Etc., Customer Centers, Authorized Shipping Outlets (ASOs), Alliance partners (Staples and Office Depot locations), and Commercial Counters. The only exception is for The UPS Store or Mail Boxes Etc. locations where a sales representative or employee of a tobacco company is returning a tobacco shipment back to the company and utilizes any UPS Return Service.

Our tobacco policy also includes changes due to the changes in state regulations restricting the sale and/or transportation of cigarettes. During this time, we’ve made extensive efforts to comply with all the different regulations, but have come to a point where this is no longer feasible given the size and scope of our global operations. UPS made the business decision to discontinue delivery of cigarettes direct to consumers in order to establish a consistent policy that will work best within this patchwork of differing state requirements on shippers, carriers and recipients.

For additional information regarding the shipment of tobacco products, please visit the following link:

UPS: Shipping Tobacco


Please contact us if you need any additional assistance.

So this is my take on it. You will have to pay state taxes on smokeless tobacco which will be added at the point of sale. All the states have their own rate on this so what you pay depends on where you live. When UPS (or whomever) delivers you will have to verify your age (not a problem for me as I just blind-em my shiny dome). Deal done.

We shall see how the details work out, as in if there will be an extra charge for shipping because of the age verification, and which shippers will be involved, but this is not a ban on shipping smokeless tobacco. The days of tax free smokeless may be numbered but it's not the end of the world.

Now, I could be wrong on all this and WE ARE ALL DOOMED, but that's my take on it.

 

[olderthandirt]

Thanks for the info Stubby. That's what I came up with in reading and re-reading the darn bills.

What I didn't know was Swedish Match's take and intent. May not be entirely gloom and doom after all.

Still think it's getting close to time for a revolution but that's another thread...

 

[Stubby]

A sure bet is death and taxes.

 

[Dredbull]

Well IF it passes we have to let it be heard loud and clear, not voting for them.

Man I have plans in the works to become a runner of pv and juice I did not expect I would have to also become one for snus.

 

[Stubby]

Bill Godshall stated that

The US Senate Judiciary Committee unanimously approved Sen. Kohl's PACT Act today.

This thing is going to fly through the senate.

I'll make some orders before it goes into effect and freeze it, but you can only do so much. Down the road I'll be paying the taxes.

 

[olderthandirt]

Bill Godshall stated that

This thing is going to fly through the senate.

I'll make some orders before it goes into effect and freeze it, but you can only do so much. Down the road I'll be paying the taxes.

Agreed.
I wonder how much of the freezer she'll let me have before insisting I buy a bigger one? 8-o

 

[Dredbull]

I guess Ill spend more money for larger orders of rolls of the enjoyable stuff.

 

[BardicDruid]

Switch to cigars, their excluded.

 

[Webby]

Age verification would be hardest hurdle. Most of my sales are to retail tobacco stores, but most carts makes it easy enough to break out state sales and remitting individual quarterly returns would be a PITA, but not an insurmountable task. Increased shipping costs would be passed on to the consumers.

Assuming incoming shipments aren't blocked, this is more of an annoyance to suppliers than an industry death knell. If anything, maybe it will open the door for more retail stores (not just tobacco outlets) to start carrying them like Pilot and CVS do.

 

[Stubby]

Yes Webby, I agree. The one thing that makes me a bit nervous is the age verification. Hopefully not a big deal.

One of the advantages with snus over PVs' is there are only 3 major online sellers. One is US based with a US warehouse, and 2 international and one of those with a US warehouse. This is not a kitchen table operation. They should have the resources to deal with this. As you said, this could also make it easier for local tobacco shops and retail stores to start selling snus (and perhaps even UK and german nasal snuff). There big disadvantage has been taxes.

 

[BardicDruid]

Well the biggest squabble over this bill between the House and the Senate is the exclusion of cigars. The Senate wants to drop the exclusion and the House wants to keep it.

Hopefully what will happen is it will sit on the shelf until dead like the last 3 attempts.

 

[cliff5550]

Response from my Senator (Durbin) to my contact with his office regarding PACT.

Dear Mr. and Mrs. Phillips:
Thank you for contacting me about the Prevent All Cigarette Trafficking (PACT) Act. I appreciate hearing from you.
Senator Kohl of Wisconsin introduced the PACT Act (S. 1147). This bill would ensure that taxes on tobacco products are properly collected. The PACT Act would allow tobacco products to be sold through the Internet if steps are taken to ensure that proper taxes are paid and that minors are not able to make purchases.
This bill has been referred to the Senate Judiciary Committee. I will keep your concerns in mind in case this legislation comes to the Senate floor for a vote.

Thank you again for contacting me. Please feel free to keep in touch.
Sincerely,
Richard J. Durbin
United States Senator


And so it goes...

 

[Dredbull]

Do this elected special needs kids NOT get we are thumbing our collective snot boxes at them?

I stopped smoking because I was tired as a cheap ...... paying for everything under the sun BUT what my tax money was supposed to be for. I also did not like the adding of extra stuff to my cigs and the giant tax hike against ryo tobacco.

I buy snus online since the local gubernment here regulates everyfricking thing from sex toys to booze. I would stop snusing if it was nearly 6 bucks a can like it is with other smokeless tobacco.

IF the gubernment had a clue they would lower the cost of tobacco until an upswing in the economy and the other sin taxes on booze.

 

[Mordred]

The PACT Act would allow tobacco products to be sold through the Internet if steps are taken to ensure that proper taxes are paid and that minors are not able to make purchases.

Such an old and disgusting tactic. Reminds me of the gun laws over here.

Sure, you can own a gun legally... IF you jump through a ridiculous amount of hoops. And don't get me started on a concealed carry permit. They exist, of course, but I think I'd have a better chance of spending the night with Angelina Jolie than getting one of those.

Not to mention that the fact, that permits are so hard to get hold of, makes it so that prices are totally ridiculous.

Going to be the same with PACT. Sure, you can still sell over the net. But with too many hoops, nobody will, or at much higher prices.