PACT ACT Concerns!

[rothenbj]

From Snuson Forum

Joined: 21 Jun 2008
Posts: 1408
Location: South Carolina USA








Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 4:58 am Post subject: I just got finished reading through the entire PACT act bill in its final form.

The key to understanding the bill is definition section of the bill. The restrictions concern sales "into a state" which is clearly defied as interstate commerce between states or tribal nations. The bill says nothing about legal international commerce operating under already existing laws/treaties

The Second key is the reconciliation section where the bill seeks to reconcile its requirements with other existing laws. This section says nothing by way of amendment or qualification concerning existing international trade and tobacco laws.

In short there is nothing in this bill that even addresses legal international sales. Period. The end.

Here is my take from a different thread


Snusdog wrote: Did you notice what was missing?

There is no mention of legitimate foreign companies selling to USA consumers. The wording of the entire law assumes interstate commerce. This is a USA directed law. I see absolutely nothing in it that even remotely concerns foreign companies operating legally with in already existing trade agreements with the USA.

The language of this law would have to rescind existing international tobacco trade laws or further qualify them (and I’m not even sure a domestic bill can do that without several other measures and steps).

Our suppliers don’t need to do anything more than what they are doing

THIS IS A BILL DIRECTED AT DOMESTIC COMPANIES AND SELLERS ONLY

IT SAYS NOTHING ABOUT FORIGN TRADE NOR CAN IT BE CONSTRUED TO DO SO OR BE LEGALLY APPLIED TO SUCH.

THIS IS GOOD NEWS

dog

If this take is accurate and international law overrides the PACT Act, it might be easier to buy internationally. Of course, you still could be subject to the taxes, but you always have been. It's just that customs hasn't gotten the information into a channel that filtered them back to you. Anyway, an interesting conversation going on in this thread.

 

[olderthandirt]

Regardless the interpretations, Isa still one nervous old son regarding access to my snus.

When the following orders arrive I will be at roughly the 1 year mark in stash.

getsnus
1 roll General Wintergreen
assorted Catch and Odens single cans to try

clubsnus
1 roll General OP
1 roll Ettan OP
1 roll Govs OP

Northerner
1 roll LD Black
5 cans Roda Laket WP
some assorted single cans and a Watch Cap with my bonus points

And there's still room in the freezer and around 2 months or so afore the new legislation goes into effect. It's not hoarding it's patriotism!

 

[Dredbull]

I am already planning an overseas trip just to make sure post june I will have a stockpile horde of my mainstays.. enough to kill a bear if you will... and darned it a few that interest me greatly.
The only set back will be the bulk ordering of oden prior to the fda mandate.

 

[Stubby]

From Snuson Forum

If this take is accurate and international law overrides the PACT Act, it might be easier to buy internationally. Of course, you still could be subject to the taxes, but you always have been. It's just that customs hasn't gotten the information into a channel that filtered them back to you. Anyway, an interesting conversation going on in this thread.

Thanks for bringing this up. I got up to speed on this last night and you beat me to the punch. From my understanding international law doesn't override the PACT act, it's just that the PACT act simply doesn't deal in anyway with international shipping of tobacco. This is strictly an interstate law. This is what Toque has been saying all along. As long as the package has the correct code on it (my last northerner order from Sweden has a CN 22 code) it's legal, or so they say.

Not being a lawyer that's as much as I know. This is still a bit shaky and will likely take some time before we know how this is going to play out. I still plan on having my freezer stocked with a years worth by June at the latest so I can sit back and watch how it develops. Could it be that this is nothing more then a Let's screw the Seneca Nation bill?

 

[Caesarea]

Certainly looks as though moving offshore is not a bad idea for a big supplier, then.

C.

 

[Dredbull]

well I am planning for snuspocolyps.

 

[asidrave]

well I am planning for snuspocolyps.

me too bro

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Not being a lawyer that's as much as I know. This is still a bit shaky and will likely take some time before we know how this is going to play out. I still plan on having my freezer stocked with a years worth by June at the latest so I can sit back and watch how it develops. Could it be that this is nothing more then a Let's screw the Seneca Nation bill?

???? It really is impossible to tell what the end result will be. I won't leave anything to chance, but it would sure be a nice reprieve come July 1st if the door to good deals was still open on the international front. And I haven't seen anything in Pact that addresses seeds or leaf so Toque's Rustica sales shouldn't be a problem for DIYers.

rothenbj, thanks for the heads-up. The last couple days I've dropped the ball on watching snuson and snuffhouse.

 

[Dredbull]

I am planning my last bit hurrah order..another roll of the following
oden reg es los
1 more of kanel es los
3 thunder
1toboca los
2 more skruff
maybe another of another thunder or 2.
and 1 knox.

I dearly love oden but it is not taking care of me as well as thunder has.
that last hurrah order will put me just under 180 cans.
snuff is stocked.
not using nearly as much as my collection dictats but its starting to increase.

 

[firechick]

180 cans?!?! DB, you're ready for PACTageddon.

 

[firechick]

Just pulled the trigger on another order from getsnus for more TF-minis and Fellinnis. Luckily, both are still in stock.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Just pulled the trigger on another order from getsnus for more TF-minis and Fellinnis. Luckily, both are still in stock.

Yay...a few more tax dollars they won't get .

 

[Stubby]

Interesting discussion over at snuson. A must read for snuff users. Well... actually everyone but snuff users are most affected.

SnusOn.com - Snus Forum :: View topic - PACT: A most regrettable liaison

This is dealing with overseas on-line venders shipping into the USA. Toque has stated that it will still be legal to ship and the PACT act doesn't change anything as far as there business goes. Who knows how this will play out, but there is lots of room for doubt as to if that will hold up.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Stubby, I've been thinking the same as far as any tobacco orders coming from overseas. As I see it, the bearing Pact would have is it puts the burden solely on the American purchaser to pay the lawful taxes. Just like I'm supposed to claim other purchases on the internet that I haven't paid sales tax on during the ordering process. I've never done that and unless I get caught the taxes will remain unpaid.

 

[asidrave]

Stubby, I've been thinking the same as far as any tobacco orders coming from overseas. As I see it, the bearing Pact would have is it puts the burden solely on the American purchaser to pay the lawful taxes. Just like I'm supposed to claim other purchases on the internet that I haven't paid sales tax on during the ordering process. I've never done that and unless I get caught the taxes will remain unpaid.

really what the worst than can happen. you get a bill from uncle sammy that you owe tax on your tobacco order.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

really what the worst than can happen. you get a bill from uncle sammy that you owe tax on your tobacco order.

I'm hoping that's the way it'll go....donno. I sent an email to Northerner a couple days ago about this very thing and I still haven't got a response. I think they may be delaying an otherwise quick reply 'cause they really don't have all the details sorted out yet. I also inquired about a back-order they owe me so they can't just ignore me....I'd think.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Still waiting on a reply from Northerner, but I caught this today on their site:


Bank Transfer

At the request of many customers we have implemented a new payment option. Starting today you are able to pay by direct bank transfer.

Looks like their gears are turning for possible credit card regulations....good for them .

 

[Caesarea]

Somewhere in the regulations you may find that the sales taxes don't hit orders below a certain value or weight. Needs to be offset against the shipping costs for several small parcels though.



C.

 

[Dredbull]

Well nanny state regulations strike again.
It is plain and simple change the merchant account for overseas orders.
Bank transfers are another.

nothing is set and people are still in panic OMFG mode.

 

[sunset]

Still waiting on a reply from Northerner, but I caught this today on their site:


Bank Transfer

At the request of many customers we have implemented a new payment option. Starting today you are able to pay by direct bank transfer.

Looks like their gears are turning for possible credit card regulations....good for them .

That is good news. I was looking a some new tobacco website for me anyway yesterday that was overseas and it said they couldn't accept credit cards for international orders. Whew, glad to see Northerner going in this direction if we need it.