Pass-Thru?

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cryx

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Feb 11, 2011
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I don't have lungs of steel that can inhale scorching hot vape. The vape is a little warmer, but the big difference with 5V @ 2A is the flavor and pillars of vapor. Now let's use that data I posted to see if we can figure out why so many can't do the same:

1) We know that a bloog battery is generating 5W and extremely few report burnt taste.
2) A fully charged non-bloog is generating 6.8W and nearly everyone complains about burnt taste.
3) Using a passthru at 1.5A is right in the middle of a bloog and non-bloog: 5W < 5.9W < 6.8W. Some people complain about burnt taste, some don't, others just don't like it.

It's all about heat. Somewhere around 3.9V/5.9W is where the carto crosses a "redline" and cause burnt taste. The question is whether it's the power increase alone causing the burnt taste, or is there another factor? For instance, at higher power levels the coil is burning hotter so it's vaporizing the juice faster. The coil is somewhat cooled by the juice, so if the wick can't keep up with the coil's rate of vaporization, the wick will dry a bit and the coil will get even hotter which could lead to the juice frying on the coil. This is the favorite theory of many to explain the burnt taste.

This general basis for the wicking theory involves PG and the thicker VG. On a bloog battery, PG seems fine for almost everone, but sufficiently high VG causes burnt tastes. VG is thicker than PG, so it stands to reason it may not wick fast enough and cause the wick to overheat. You can see why many would like to assume that if the bloog battery has these issues, that "obviously" a hotter running non-bloog battery is ask for trouble. I think that's fair when it comes to VG, but it's a leap to assume that runny PG on a non-bloog battery will exhibit the same problem as thick VG on a bloog battery.

Like many non-bloog battery owners, I am experienced a lot of problems with PG in these cartos. We are over the aforementioned redline, and a passthrough is straddling the redline. I had 2 packs of cartos go bad in a week. They sometimes tasted a bit harsh on a fresh battery, but they worked ok after a few puffs. Then they very slowly became foul and nasty tasting and caused respiratory irritation. Must be the wicking theory, right? Why did I even use a non-bloog battery?

I have fixed more than just my two, and it hasn't failed yet. After all my experiments, I will posit there is not a PG wicking problem, there is a manufacturing materials issue. I'll eat crow if it can be factual refuted and a plausible explanation of why removing the adhesive has accidentally worked in a number of cartos. It can't take the heat w/o something nasty happening. Adhesive gone = nasties gone. The thing does need to be adhered so I'm going to test using my aquarium silicone (%100 pure) this weekend. I can vape on 2X the power of the bloog battery if I want to, so increasing the resistance is not the answer.

Now is the part where the wolves come blow big smokescreens, regale you with tales of my escape from the loony bin, then carry me off and eat me...
 

Gardner808

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Feb 1, 2011
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Cryx, that was an awesome amount of information and data that was well crafted and organized. You rock!

Unfortunately, my response to all that awesomeness is, Huh?

I apologize for my lack of comprehension and please don't go into further detail because that would be a waste of your time (my lack not yours). But if you could distill it and give me the takeaway, the key bit of information I would need to choose a KR808 Carto that would work better on a PT that would be outstanding.
 

Frick

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Jan 3, 2011
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I have fixed more than just my two, and it hasn't failed yet. After all my experiments, I will posit there is not a PG wicking problem, there is a manufacturing materials issue. I'll eat crow if it can be factual refuted and a plausible explanation of why removing the adhesive has accidentally worked in a number of cartos.


Devil's Advocate: A lot of people are using a lot of cartos containing the same adhesive that you are blaming for the burnt taste without experiencing that taste. I bought my first set of 10 cartos February 3rd; they have the adhesive, both on the silicone 'tophat' and on the end of the 'chimney' (the braided tube). Not one of those cartos has had any kind of burnt taste, other than when I filled a couple with 50/50 from Vaperite that is quite thick, and that was certainly a wicking issue, because spinning the liquid out and refilling with 80/20 or 70/30 it vapes perfectly. Of the cartos I've disassembled, the only dark color other than the wick itself is two tiny slots in the 'tophat/o-ring'. Nothing is burnt, or appears melted.

I just retired a carto with over 20 refills under its belt without any sign of burnt taste. I disassembled it and I am shocked at how good it looks inside: not a single singed, burnt or otherwise darkened area on any of the filler or 'chimney' (which won't burn anyway). The only thing black is the wick with the coil wrapped around it.
 

Frick

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Jan 3, 2011
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Ohio
yeah, but you are using bloog bats, right? Cryx is using non-bloog bats and PTs. So devil/angels mediator advocate, the adhesive could be fine at a regulated BMF 3.6v and not higher?

Yes, this was on Bloog batteries.

But I've seen the images, and what was originally "oh my God all that silicone melted away" was later "well, it's an adhesive" and Leaford came along and said what I've been thinking the whole time: nothing is melted there. I did my own surgery, and it's true, at least for Bloog batteries, and I have no reason yet to use anything else. It would be nice that the cartos work on any voltage or battery, but even then, I don't see the burnt areas in the images, other than the ones showing burnt polyfill, but that's the result of running a carto dry, and happens on all carto designs that use polyfill.
 
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