PBS segment on Vaping

[Painter_]

Mostly balanced attempting to tell both sides of the situation. The "expert" took the children and we do not know enough stance, the interviewers even though they did not know some details asked some hard questions that the "expert" back peddled on. Not great but good. I wish they would have contacted an "expert" on the vaping side.

Video: E-cigarettes: Waiting to Exhale? | Watch Studio SoCaL Online | PBS SoCal/KOCE Video

 

[EBates]

How about the 'doctor' pushing the Party Line. We Don't Know What It Is, So Kill It.
Another Brainless Puppet.
And has No Idea what Regulation means PROHIBITION & TAXES. We could all live forever or die tomorrow. Our current form of government could Care Less, It's All About The MONEY.

 

[Robert Cromwell]

doctors and pharma push all kinds of drugs that turn out to have some horrible consequences, but they push them anyway.

 

[Robert Cromwell]

I do support the following regulations.
1. No sales of vaping liquid or equipment to minors.
2. Regulations of what can be put into vaping liquids. Ie GRAS, USP and sanitary conditions.
3. Vaping devices meet UL type standards for safety. ie overcurrent protection to prevent battery meltdowns, etc.
4. Labelling of liquids as to contents.

Further I support no additional regulations as far as the manufacture or sale of vaping liquids or equipment.

 

[Tache]

I sent the following email to Mel Rogers, the CEO of PBS CoCal, under the heading:

"I expect better research from PBS"

"I just watched the Studio SoCal segment "E-cigarettes: Waiting to Exhale", and although Rick Reiff and Elizabeth Espinosa did ask some probing questions, much mis-information was "left standing". In particular the "there are not any studies" and "we don't know enough about them" comments.

Could I please, strongly encourage you to provide the linked information below to your journalistic staff so that they can explore further just how much we do know, and why people who vape are outraged by the misleading and very inaccurate #stillblowingsmoke campaign currently going on in California.

E-cigarettes, vaping and public health: A summary for policy-makers (in the email, this was a live link to Clive Bates' document)

I look forward to future segments that incorporate factual information based on un-biased, contextually presented and methodologically correct scientific research."

Let's see what happens.

 

[DrMA]

I contacted David Nazar on Twitter and he said a pro-vaping expert was invited, but canceled at the last minute

 

[Jman8]

I do support the following regulations.
1. No sales of vaping liquid or equipment to minors.

I will never join in on this cause and see it as ignorance. As it drives all other regulations, I see it as number one item to be opposed, if seriously in the vaping fight to win it. If in it to get best possible compromise from ANTZ, then this is still #1 to oppose, and last one to compromise on. When it is the first one we agree to, then all others will be easy schmeasy to get invoked. Just a matter of time and doing things on the radar, when after the fact it can simply be cited as, "we did this for protection of kids. Which even vapers agree with that. Therefore we are the protecters of health.

Anyway, I liked the video in that it presented a balanced discussion. Dislike the whole "we don't know" stuff. My response to that is, "you may not, I do." Like me claiming, we should ban/heavily restrict oranges cause "we just don't know if they are safe." To which I think a whole bunch of people would say "you may not, we do." If you do not know eCigs level of safety, 7 years after they have been around, and some guy on the internet does feel he knows, then that says a lot about how feeble your approach and methods are. Or that you are lying.

Also dislike the whole notion of these are great as alternative to deadly smoking but only in that way (are they great). Therefore, we are righteous to target kids and give them the message to never ever try this because of how highly dangerous they are and/or how highly addictive nicotine is. That position will lose, has lost (ever since I've been alive) and is ignorance up the wazoo. It deserves to be exploited for the lie it is, and for the black market that it enables kids to partake in. Here, let me pat you on the back for creating that market for kids, that is infinitely less safe than whatever your restrictive regulations were hoping to accomplish.

I would like to see a 4 person discussion on vaping, with 3 people who are vaping enthusiasts, with at least one being 'expert' (scientific type) and then 1 person on the panel who is anti-type. I think that could be interesting if the anti-type isn't completely dismissed. In this panel, the person that was most pro-support of eCigs wasn't outright dismissed and actually spoke arguably the most. Making points that I would think most vapers considered good points. In the interest of good discussion, I'd like to see another 4 person panel have virtually same discussion with 3 who are clearly pro-vaping and 1 that leans the other way. Would be even more interesting if the anti type were able to hold their own, while obviously not winning over people on the opposite stance, but at least presenting that position in a way that is presented upfront as outnumbered, but is still being presented with sense of confidence. Instead, I'm thinking all televised discussions on this will have the token nod to vaping enthusiasm and intentionally outnumber that position, and then think that makes for objective journalism.

 

[philoshop]

The guest pediatrician showed her motivation quite clearly: She has an absolute fear of anything unknown in her world, and firmly believes that government intervention is the only acceptable way to allay that fear. Personally, I think she has a lot to learn about what motivates the government.

The other three described and presented the issue reasonably well IMO, though I'd prefer they not use the term 'smoking' when talking about vapor.

 

[Painter_]

.

Anyway, I liked the video in that it presented a balanced discussion. Dislike the whole "we don't know" stuff. My response to that is, "you may not, I do." Like me claiming, we should ban/heavily restrict oranges cause "we just don't know if they are safe." To which I think a whole bunch of people would say "you may not, we do." If you do not know eCigs level of safety, 7 years after they have been around, and some guy on the internet does feel he knows, then that says a lot about how feeble your approach and methods are. Or that you are lying.

I think that you are on to something here. Oranges contain citric acid which can be found in furniture polish. It is also the active ingredient in Prestone ® Super Flush which is used to clean that nasty propylene glycol from automobile cooling systems that was leftover from the antifreeze. We should start a movement to ban all oranges from the market. For the Children.

 

[EBates]

Let me think, Yeah heck of an Idea!
Cigarettes are regulated, right? How's that workin' out?
Kids can't buy 'em, right? How's that worked out?
Alcohol, kids can't buy it, right? How's that workin' out?
Borders are controlled, right? How's that workin' out?
The country and state budgets are controlled, right? How's that workin' out?
Pharma companies produce drugs that are regulated, right? How's that workin' out?
Ice Cream is controlled, right? How's that workin' out?

So, yeah! Government regulation, heck of an idea!

 

[philoshop]

The problem is, a lot of people think it's working just fine

 

[EBates]

The problem is, a lot of people think it's working just fine

And That's The Really Scary Part
And That's How These Same Worthless Jokers Stay In Office.

 

[Woofer]

I can not believe peeps get is such a state about kids and vaping.
Some kids are going to and some are not, either way they will be fine.

How about worrying about something like the Haliburton Loophole.
EARTHWORKS | The Halliburton Loophole

or
http://www.mrt.com/top_stories/article_d845d364-cdba-5e5a-9f67-8ac5363e550b.html
http://www.epa.gov/region6/6sf/pdffiles/west-county-road-112-tx.pdf

or
maybe just the simple fact that the USA is running out of potable water.

I believe the children are screwed six ways from Sunday already.

 

[redddog]

I'm so tired of the "we just don't know" argument.

How long is it going to take to get the facts out? It seems so easy yet so far away. We DO know. There ARE sudies. And at the very least, we have irrefutable data that shows only a small fraction of risk when compared to smoking.

It seems impossible that 1, people who are in the medical field who are taking anti-vaping stances haven't come across the data counter to thier stances and been convinced to rexamine and 2, that groups operating for vapers haven't been able to diseminate that data more thouroghly.

The data is there.

 

[DC2]

It seems impossible that 1, people who are in the medical field who are taking anti-vaping stances haven't come across the data counter to thier stances and been convinced to rexamine and 2, that groups operating for vapers haven't been able to diseminate that data more thouroghly.

The data is there.

Do you know WHY the situation is as it is?

I would gladly post the reasons, of which there are many.
And all of them will disgust the average reader.


Here are a few hints...

--The mainstream media doesn't care about truth
--The ANTZ have far too much power
--The public has been thoroughly brainwashed
--The medical profession is at the mercy of Big Pharma supported FDA regulations
--The government is addicted to our money

The average reader doesn't know any of these things.
And the world keeps spinning round and round.

 

[philoshop]

As trite as the saying has become: "They can't handle the truth."
The government is immensely more addicted to tobacco than any individual could ever be.

 

[redddog]

Do you know WHY the situation is as it is?

I would gladly post the reasons, of which there are many.
And all of them will disgust the average reader.


Here are a few hints...

--The mainstream media doesn't care about truth
--The ANTZ have far too much power
--The public has been thoroughly brainwashed
--The medical profession is at the mercy of Big Pharma supported FDA regulations
--The government is addicted to our money

The average reader doesn't know any of these things.
And the world keeps spinning round and round.

I get all of that, DC.

My point is that the data is there and irrefutable. At some point, an argument is won and lost despite the veracity of the participants resolve, regardless of their motives. I understand completely the motivations of the anti-vaping esatblishment. But eventually, stark empirical evidence wins and conjecture fades away. We have this evidence available. The data is in. One of the most oft repeated points made against vapers is that "we just don't know." But we do. And if the charge of the organizations we support is to disseminate that information and to challenge non-scientific based opinion, however empatic, it seems like we're making impossibly slow progress, particularly in the face of such a strong body of evidence.

Any nut can come out and start to argue that brushing your teeth causes tooth decay. It would take 30 seconds to prove that hypothesis wrong after about a 10 second google search. Anti-Brushing Activist neutralized. Obviously, a simplified comparison but is it that much of a stretch? It appears not.

Easy for me to type this out as I sit behind a desk. I understand that it's not as easy as scheduling a press-conference in the rose garden and proclaiming vaping to be just and good, but it does seem like the message can be better delivered given the preponderance of evidence that can not be argued. And given the intelligence and energy that the talented proponents we have posess, it seems like this should have been settled by now.

Or at least the "health" part. Once that is resolved, it becomes a revenue issue. And that's when the government gets going.

 

[DC2]

I hear what you're saying...

It does seem amazingly hard to get your message out when you don't have access to mainstream media.

Not that I'm some kind of expert on these things, but I've been wracking my brain for years.
I wish I could think of a good way to get the world to hear us.

I think what we need is something that will draw the mainstream media to our plight.
All my ideas would need either tons of money, or tons of participants.

I wish Leonardo DiCaprio would take this up as his personal cause.

 

[Kent C]

I hear what you're saying...

It does seem amazingly hard to get your message out when you don't have access to mainstream media.

Not that I'm some kind of expert on these things, but I've been wracking my brain for years.
I wish I could think of a good way to get the world to hear us.

I think what we need is something that will draw the mainstream media to our plight.
All my ideas would need either tons of money, or tons of participants.

I wish Leonardo DiCaprio would take this up as his personal cause.

While the 2009 Soterra case was not as wide ranging as most of us would have liked to see, it is the one thing where we 'beat' ANTZ and it got a fair amount of major media coverage at the time. Another aspect of that was some of Mitch Zeller's comments on the case, esp. at the HELP hearing where he was resigned to the decision and pointed it out as an explanation of why he as TC head, couldn't do some of the things that Sen. Harkin and others brought up.

It is this type of 'resignation' that both sides are attempting to impose on the other side It's an indication of who's winning. For both sides, it is only legislation or the courts (or both) that can impose restrictions on us. So it behooves us to elect, support and inform our elected officials and support with communication and money, any cases that may come up that would significantly change the current path toward restrictions, bans, etc. Our only other path is to resign to the fact that if that doesn't work, the black market is the only way to keep vaping as we have been, or move to one of the few pro-vaping countries that exist.

 

[redddog]

So it behooves us to elect, support and inform our elected officials and support with communication and money, any cases that may come up that would significantly change the current path toward restrictions, bans, etc.

Cool. So all we have to do is match or better what BT and BP give to each elected official that is up for election.

We're saved!