People who ruin it for the rest of us

[Jay-dub]

Idunno - if everyone has to pay one way or another for a person's failing health as a result of poor choices - what's wrong with taxing the products that cause that poor health so that the people who consume the product enough to cause health issues have to pay for their own decisions? How many people's diabetes do I have to pay for because they can't lay off the sodas? How many disability claims are for the obese? Somethings got to be done. Subsidizing healthier choices would be considered just as "Nazi" as taxing poor decisions. So, we just keep paying for people who damage themselves through products made by hugely profitable companies that pay for none of the societal cost of their products? We let people do whatever they want and turn a blind eye when they start to suffer as a result? It seems like nowadays the popular thing to do is complain about things that have been done without offering any solutions. While we're at it - the Centrl Bank system is evil so let's get rid of it. Then what?

 

[K_Tech]

It's one obnoxious vaper's fault because you couldn't take 2 seconds to email your local/state/federal politician and tell him/her to mind their own business? Tell them to quit making laws that take our personal decisions away from us, away from small business owners, away from parents on who to raise their own children? All because one obnoxious vaper took a draw during a kid's spelling bee? I remember people drinking out of flasks and brown paper bags at almost every school event I ever attended. How is that any better/worse than vaping in public?

We let the ANTZ push us outside. Then we let them push us 15-25-50 feet away from the entrance. Then we let them push us completely off the property and now they are pushing us out of parks and beaches and even our own homes. If vaping equals smoking and you can't smoke in your own freaking apartment, do you really think they are going to let you vape? Illinois is even making it a crime to smoke in your own freaking car if there is also a child in the car.

We have got to stand up for ourselves! What if the politicians take it into their heads to start slapping an extra tax on candy? Oh, wait--they already have! What about those toys in Happy Meals? Oh, that's right--some town in California tried that. Large sodas--been there. If you give an inch--they will take a mile and then the entire country. How is hiding under a rock going to stop them?

Well said.

The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and you've got to be squeaker than the opposition.

I'm a loud, registered voter. If you didn't fight it, you have no right to complain about legislation you don't like.

 

[Bunnykiller]

and finally... even if we vaped 0 nic juice ( no toxic anything) would we still be treated like smokers? Being forced into the area that we are trying to get away from?

 

[Strangebrew]

Total agreement. Burnt minds now frying juice!

 

[K_Tech]

and finally... even if we vaped 0 nic juice ( no toxic anything) would we still be treated like smokers? Being forced into the area that we are trying to get away from?

Some people simply don't care; you could be vaping holy water but as long as it looks like you're smoking, you're Satan and must be cast out.

 

[neutrontech]

Idunno - if everyone has to pay one way or another for a person's failing health as a result of poor choices - what's wrong with taxing the products that cause that poor health so that the people who consume the product enough to cause health issues have to pay for their own decisions? How many people's diabetes do I have to pay for because they can't lay off the sodas? How many disability claims are for the obese? Somethings got to be done. Subsidizing healthier choices would be considered just as "Nazi" as taxing poor decisions. So, we just keep paying for people who damage themselves through products made by hugely profitable companies that pay for none of the societal cost of their products? We let people do whatever they want and turn a blind eye when they start to suffer as a result? It seems like nowadays the popular thing to do is complain about things that have been done without offering any solutions. While we're at it - the Centrl Bank system is evil so let's get rid of it. Then what?

It's not the government's place to decide what's acceptable and what's not. Freedom isn't free. I get your point though, and by itself it's not really a bad idea. The problem is power corrupts. It wouldn't end there. Pretty soon the are taxing and banning whatever they like. We have to limit power even if it means we get the short end of the stick once in a while.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

 

[Anjaffm]

Hm.. looks like the alleged "cost to of smoking society" is mentioned again. That alleged cost is a myth.

In fact, smokers and heavy drinkers do not cost the state more. Though smokers may cost more during their working lives, but non-smokers require greater expenditure in pensions, nursing care and welfare payments. Chronic diseases associated with old age are far more expensive than the lethal diseases associated with smoking and alcoholism. Smokers and drinkers are not a burden on the state, and the myth of saints subsidising sinners should not be used to justify tax rises.

The source: Wages of Sin Taxes: The True Cost of Taxing Alcohol, Tobacco and Other "Vices" | Adam Smith Institute

Then again, this thread is about vaping. Which is 99% less harmful than smoking.

short form:
Latest Studies Confirm E-Cigarette Vapor Safety

longer form:

http://publichealth.drexel.edu/~/media/Files/publichealth/ms08.pdf
http://www.rstreet.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/RSTREET11.pdf

Hm...now... if smokers cost less to society, does that mean that we should all go back to smoking, to save money for society?
I think I'll take a raincheck

 

[asf146]

and what about the rude antzy types that get in your face when you are being polite about your vaping??

then you should definitely make that time, the time to dry burn the piss out of your coils upwind from them lol

 

[sdennislee]

Check out this thread, currently 100 pages on this very topic should save you guys some typing. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/e-cigarettes-public/523259-why-vapers-getting-bad-name.html

 

[this is cheese]

Haven't seen anyone vaping about in public, but then I don't go out much. Yet when I do I bring my mod around to vape wherever I feel it would be acceptable. I try to not be inconsiderate and don't go around blowing vapor clouds everywhere.

 

[Asmo6]

I think a lot of vapers have a sort of "revenge mentality" that winds up doing us far more harm than good in terms of trying to gain public acceptability and overcome the moral panic. When they smoked cigarettes, they were so resentful of being socially ostracized and shunted outside like lepers that, now that they vape instead, they seem hell-bent on doing it anywhere they want, any time they want, in close proximity to as many people as possible.

I don't think it's ANTZy of me to say no one needs to vape at a school play or sporting event. I mean seriously. But more and more, I see people vaping at times and places where it almost seems like they're trying to instigate a confrontation by being as obnoxious about it as possible. I wish these idiots would stop to think how badly they're rudeness reflects on all the rest of us and ......s our efforts to gain fair treatment for vaping and vapers.

Is vaping harmful to people around you?

No.

It's not smoking. The amount of vapers that JUST can't get past the fact they are NOT smoking - and don't have to shove themselves into the same outcast corner any more astound me.

Should you be blowing huge clouds in someone's face? No. That's a personal space / respect issue and separate from vaping all together. Common sense. Would I want someone sucking on their inhaler and breathing in my face? No. Would I give a crap if they were using their inhaler in my car? No.

We need to stick to the facts here and not the self associated smoking stigma - PLEASE...

It's not smoking. The particle size is not even close. It is not readily absorbed into your lungs. Nor does it contain 10.000 chemicals or radioactive components. Other types of medical delivery systems use the same chemicals as carriers. Nicotine is in the foods you eat.


Be respectful but stop putting yourself in the same smoking cage. Everyone else ALREADY wants to put you there. It's not disrespectful vapers that are making that happen. It's people that are completely ignorant on what vaping EVEN IS - equating it to SMOKING.

So why would you do the same and make it easy. Dump the smoker's guilt. This isn't about retribution, it's about liberation.

 

[p.opus]

Oh boy....Another low post new member comes in with another "vapers giving vapers a bad name" thread and the same argument ensues with all the same players.

Without even reading the contents let me see if I got this right....

Vaping is not a right and we should do all that we can to be respectful and follow the existing laws and only vape where smoking is allowed.

Vaping is not smoking...

But Vaping looks like smoking....

It's not smoking.....

But what about second hand vape? It's obnoxious and people may be sensitive/allergic.

What about the lady who wears too much purfume? She's obnoxious and people can be sensitive to her perfume as well.

That's not the same.....

How so?!!

.......I don't know...But vaping in (insert whatever area you choose is inappropriate) is just plain rude.

Maybe you think so, but who appointed you miss Manners, and why is it your business where I choose or not choose to vape?

See?!!!?? It's that attitude that ruins it for the rest of us.

Hey!!! I'm from Germany and our devices in Europe are being outrighted banned, and 0 nic juice is the only thing we can buy in some countries.

Oh God!!! That German "....*" is back!!!!

More back and forth....

And in the meantime as vapers blame other vapers for their ills. Laws restricting vapers and where and how they buy their products are bing passed in cities, municipalities and states because their tobacco settlement money is drying up, and vapers would rather blame each other than fight what needs to be fought.....

Welcome!!!!!! Did I miss anything?

 

[Jay-dub]

It's not the government's place to decide what's acceptable and what's not. Freedom isn't free. I get your point though, and by itself it's not really a bad idea. The problem is power corrupts. It wouldn't end there. Pretty soon the are taxing and banning whatever they like. We have to limit power even if it means we get the short end of the stick once in a while.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

Well, you've articulated a problem without offering a solution. Sort of the very thing I was... Anyway, what's your solution? No government? Just like getting rid of the Central Bank because it's evil. Ok...then what?

Freedom isn't free... why not "God Bless the USA". OR "Git-r-Dun" or "USA - USA - USA"! LOL! Slogans are great for meaningless, emotionally driven arguments.

 

[zoiDman]

Well, you've articulated a problem without offering a solution. ...

Isn't that what Most of these Threads are All About?

I hear you MetalMaster75.

The ECF is Full of Threads where people stand in line to get up on a Soap Box crying about "This is an Outrage. My Rights are being Taken Away!". But how Many of these Vocal Advocates will spend a 1/100th of their Time they spend on Posting Hype to write a City, State or Federal Rep?

This is a Good Example...

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ren-klaus-do-you-not-care-about-children.html

Post after post Whining about how Bad things are Getting. But Only a Few who suggest Getting Active and Doing Something about it.

Was it Martin Luther King Jr. or was it Malcolm X who said, "If your Not Part of the Solution, then you are Part of the Problem."

 

[p.opus]

Washington is proposing a 75% tax on e-cigs which just passed committee on a 7/6 majority. Now it goes to the floor.

ProVape (manufacturers of the ProVari) Mount Baker Vapors (Juice maker) stands to lose big time if this occurs.

Protovapor XPV is in Hawaii and Hawaii is proposing an enormous excise tax that will make their products almost unsaleable.

I've made my calls and emails...Have you?

 

[Jay-dub]

Anyone want to critique what I'm considering to send my Reps?

"Being since e-cigs have saved my lungs and my wallet I oppose heavy-handed and unjustified taxation/regulation of the product. If tobacco was taxed due to it's health effects to society, then it's disingenuous to claim the same reasoning behind taxing e-cigs and vape products. These devices are SAVING society money by converting people like myself from being a smoker to a vapist. We no longer suffer the side-effects or health issues associated with smoking. For the first time in many, I haven't had a lung infection this year. I no longer cough or wheeze and it's all thanks to vaping. Needless to say, I will watch how you approach this issue and vote accordingly."

 

[Myk]

Haven't seen anyone vaping about in public, but then I don't go out much. Yet when I do I bring my mod around to vape wherever I feel it would be acceptable. I try to not be inconsiderate and don't go around blowing vapor clouds everywhere.

That's what I'm trying to figure out. Exactly where are there so many vapers that rude vapors is a major problem?
The only time I see vapers is at the vapor shop.

 

[zoiDman]

Anyone want to critique what I'm considering to send my Reps?

"Being since e-cigs have saved my lungs and my wallet I oppose heavy-handed and unjustified taxation/regulation of the product. If tobacco was taxed due to it's health effects to society, then it's disingenuous to claim the same reasoning behind taxing e-cigs and vape products. These devices are SAVING society money by converting people like myself from being a smoker to a vapist. We no longer suffer the side-effects or health issues associated with smoking. For the first time in many, I haven't had a lung infection this year. I no longer cough or wheeze and it's all thanks to vaping. Needless to say, I will watch how you approach this issue and vote accordingly."

I would take a Different Approach that Saying that e-Cigarettes are Saving Money. Those Monies you are Saving are seen as a Tax Base in which States are Losing Money with.

I approach them with more of a Health Approach. And that Any and all of the 2nd Hand Vapor studies have been shown to be in Error.

 

[raspberryblu]

At the end of the day it's about common sense and simple consideration for others. Even though it's not smoking, I'm not going to roll up into some place, plop down in a crowded area and vape away. I'm going to find a secluded area where my vaping isn't likely to bother someone else.

Yes, there's always going to be some ... who is going to clearly see you vaping and move into the area where you're sitting, and then complain about it. Unfortunately, you're always going to deal with those type of people who are just generally unhappy and like to take a steamer all over someone else's good time.

However, I honestly believe that most people are reasonable, and honestly could care less whether I vape or not as long as I'm not blowing it up their nostrils.

Considering that the state of CO made 2 million dollars in tax revenue from that other substance in the first two months of the year, you would think the states would come up with a better way to profit from the vaping industry rather than placing such a high tax on it that no one could afford it.

 

[Anjaffm]

Oh boy....Another low post new member comes in with another "vapers giving vapers a bad name" thread and the same argument ensues with all the same players.

Without even reading the contents let me see if I got this right....

....

More back and forth....

And in the meantime as vapers blame other vapers for their ills. Laws restricting vapers and where and how they buy their products are bing passed in cities, municipalities and states because their tobacco settlement money is drying up, and vapers would rather blame each other than fight what needs to be fought.....

Welcome!!!!!! Did I miss anything?

*giggles* Great summary!

Except that that German .. uhm.. female is on break from fighting for her vaping rights at the moment. We have intermission, before all that nonsense goes to the national level. So why not educate some new vapers on the background of vaping bans etc? I have time right now And it never hurts to hang around ECF and pick up a few links, more knowledge that will come in handy