PG or VG?

[glassgal]

My new big question now is... PV or VG?

I've read a lot of pros and cons for both, ie., VG is less drying, possibly safer, thicker, potentially distorts or dulls down flavors. PG is more liquid, throat drying, allows better flavor from the juice. (did I miss any?)

The question is... if you wanted to try DIY, how do you decide which to buy/use? Nicotine is sold in prediluted form, even the 100mg/ml, and they all ask, do you want VG or PG filler? I have no idea.

On various threads, I've read people say that they want to be VG free (allergies) or PG free (allergies). Allergies aside, what factors determine your personal preference to one or the other? How did you arrive at the %'s??

I just want to figure out which unflavored nic solution to order... PG or VG?? Would this preference change with available flavors?

 

[Nosmik]

It all depends what you usually vape. What ratios have you tried so far? Try a sample pack with different ratios to find out your sweet spot. I vape and DIY 50/50 and buy one 100% vg and another 100% pg nicotine base and adjust accordingly.

 

[Gordon T]

I use a 60/40 pg/vg mix. It gives u the throat hit with the vapor and a good taste on most juices. For DIY the nic is the most expensive part so find the mixture u like and what is most use the nic with that base. I hope u understand what im trying to say lol

 

[glassgal]

Well... I have not yet tried any juice...

I just today got my first vaping supplies... a Bloog Ultimate set with 2 extra batteries and several extra cartomizer packages (which I think are refillable a few times).

I also ordered some juice from Liberty Flights, which hasn't arrived yet... but based on what they said at the site, everything I ordered was VG. Also, I ordered an itaste MVP 2.

So... I have no idea what PG might be like. That's why I'm asking... I want to know what all the differences are, and why you chose the % you chose. It would help me decide what to buy.

 

[Jazzi Mike]

I think that people that say 100% VG does not carry flavor have either never tried a 100% VG juice or gotten one from a vendor that is not skilled at making that sort of juice. Most of my juices are a 50/50 blend to 100% VG. One thing VG does lack in is throat hit. If that is important to you, you might want to consider a blend.

All in all though, it really is not a matter of good or bad. It is much more a preference of a person's taste. My advice to you would be to try both 100% VG and 100% PG and a few blends. See what you like and then start DIYing your own. Personally, it just seems like too much work to me. I have been building my own atomizers and that is something I do find rewarding, but I am okay paying someone else to mix my juice.

 

[glassgal]

Can I ask what is meant by 'throat hit'? I've seen that referred to a few times, but I have no idea what it actually means.

When I smoke a real cig (which I've done for decades)... I don't get what I would think of as a throat hit. Maybe I've been smoking too long, so don't notice whatever special sensation others might feel...

I have been puffing away on the bloog, which I am not sure even has liquid inside it (don't here any sloshing in the little cartomizer). When I pull really hard, I get an itchy feeling at the back of the throat, almost like a desire to cough. Is that a throat hit?? I don't know if that's VG or PG, since the only option available is the Mg of the cartomizers.

I will do as you suggest tho, order some 100% juice of each first and see the difference, although I'm much more leary of PG, due to the vaccination scares. Thanks for the concern! I agree that most people probably wouldn't/shouldn't jump into blending. I am/was a hobbyist perfume blender, hand soapmaker and professional formulator (lotions, creams, body scrubs) for years (actually, 2 decades). The SMOKING of any of them is what's new to me. I can't believe it's taken me this long to explore this! I'm very very enthusiastic!!

 

[AgentAnia]

Can I ask what is meant by 'throat hit'? I've seen that referred to a few times, but I have no idea what it actually means.

When I smoke a real cig (which I've done for decades)... I don't get what I would think of as a throat hit. Maybe I've been smoking too long, so don't notice whatever special sensation others might feel...

I have been puffing away on the bloog, which I am not sure even has liquid inside it (don't here any sloshing in the little cartomizer). When I pull really hard, I get an itchy feeling at the back of the throat, almost like a desire to cough. Is that a throat hit?? I don't know if that's VG or PG, since the only option available is the Mg of the cartomizers.

I will do as you suggest tho, order some 100% juice of each first and see the difference, although I'm much more leary of PG, due to the vaccination scares. Thanks for the concern! I agree that most people probably wouldn't/shouldn't jump into blending. I am/was a hobbyist perfume blender, hand soapmaker and professional formulator (lotions, creams, body scrubs) for years (actually, 2 decades). The SMOKING of any of them is what's new to me. I can't believe it's taken me this long to explore this! I'm very very enthusiastic!!

Hi, glassgal. I'm the same as you; when I smoked, I wasn't aware of any such thing as throat hit, so have never looked for it with my ecig. But yes, I think that "itchy" feeling you experienced is probably throat hit. That's the PG effect. VG is what creates vapor. (I tried vaping 100% PG once. No vapor at all, and it "hit" not only my throat, but down into my lung as well!) I mix my base to 50/50, which seems to suit me. If you want to try DIYing (after mixing skin-care products, should be a piece of cake for you!), I'd suggest you get a bottle of 100% PG and one of 100% VG and mix up small batches of various ratios, to see what suits you best.

About your cartomizers: You won't hear any sloshing. Carts use a filler material that absorbs the e-liquid to saturation and then feeds it into the wick. The coil heats the wick and vaporizes the liquid.) Hope this helps you a little bit.

EDIT: And yes definitely, once you get your juice, you can refill, or top up, the cartridges.

 

[Jazzi Mike]

Throat hit is just the feeling you get when you inhale the vapor into your mouth and lungs. When you smoke, you get a stinging/burning feeling of the smoke going into your lungs. With ecigs, you won't get anything near the feeling of actually inhaling smoke into your lungs, but yes, the amount of PG does affect that sensation. Some people are really concerned with it and others not so much.

As far as the health effects of PG, it is in so many food and cosmetic products, you are consuming some everyday. As far as inhaling it, it is still anybodys guess as to whether it is dangerous.

 

[damthisisfun]

I get a pretty decent TH, not to mention great flavor n clouds of vapor with Johnson Creek's 100% VG Tennessee. I crank up the Voltage a little and it seems to work. Was finally able to get some Bobas and Gorilla J - hasnt arrived yet.

 

[glassgal]

Thank you guys!

As for the PG, it's GRAS (generally recognized as safe). But that's primarily for skin and ingestion... which are designed to block larger molecules from passing. Because it's GRAS, it's also used in vaccinations and inhalers.

The only concern is how many people raise a hue and cry about it in vaccines. Most science/medical sites debunk the concern by saying that the confusion is between polyethylene glycol and ethylene glycol or diethylene glycol (components in anti-freeze). Parents have been blaming vaccines for autism... and point fingers at the polyethylene glycol, confusing it with the anti-freeze components. The 2 chemicals are unrelated... so there is no link.

Yet no one is explaining the astonishing increase in autism since they started using it in vaccines. Here's an article from WebMD about it, acknowledging the problem: Autism-Vaccine Link: Evidence Doesn't Dispel Doubts

The PG may not be related to the problem with vaccines, certainly most scientists don't think it is. But it seems to me that unless there's a really good reason to use it, why use it? Adults can develop autism, and these mimic bipolar and asperger symptoms.

Now that said... NOTHING I can see in Ejuice compares to the toxins in cigarettes. Comparing the relative safety of PG to carbon monoxide is a no-brainer.

 

[Erised]

Adults can develop autism, and these mimic bipolar and asperger symptoms.

Hmmm, develop it? Or be diagnosed with it? HUGE distinction.


As for PG vs VG -- I'm one of those that has an allergy to (or at the least a sensitivity to) VG. So, for me a PG based liquid, or at least one that is 60%PG, suits me better. This doesn't seem to be the norm in the vaping world.

You mention DIY ... we have some members that are awesome at it ... here is the ECF forum just for DIY ...
DIY E-Liquid

 

[SonHouse]

What I haven't seen mentioned is the ratios you can hit. The flavorings you use in mixes are generally considered PG since they are normally using that as a base. They can be 20-25% of the mix, though possibly lower. So let's assume that you have 25% flavor, now you throw in 25% PG, if you fill the rest with VG, you're at a 50/50 mix. Course, most flavors aren't that high in the mix but you get the idea. Now, you start with that 25% flavor in PG, add 25% VG nic, and you're sitting at a 50/50 mix that you can take to 75% PG or VG or anywhere in between. Go with VG for flexibility.

 

[Thunderball]

You can ask all the questions you want, and read all you can, but until you try different juice PG/VG mixtures for yourself, you just wont know.

VG = clouds
PG = throat hit

Remember that the more nic, the more throught hit you get also.....

50/50 is a good mix/best of both worlds........unless one or the other bothers you.


At Wizard labs, Nic comes in 100% VG.....or 100% VG
At myfreedomsmokes you can choose what you want....like nic that comes in 50/50

Wizard is cheaper than myfreedomsmokes, but they pre mix the vg/pg content for you.

Just have to weigh that out for yourself.

Thats all Ive got..

 

[glassgal]

Erised, I have been looking in that section a lot... but there's links referred to there that I can't see at all (says I am not authorized yet). Also, I am not allowed to post there. I need to post over 20 posts here first to be able to even see certain subforums I think (not sure which, since I can't see them).

 

[Thunderball]

What I haven't seen mentioned is the ratios you can hit. The flavorings you use in mixes are generally considered PG since they are normally using that as a base. They can be 20-25% of the mix, though possibly lower. So let's assume that you have 25% flavor, now you throw in 25% PG, if you fill the rest with VG, you're at a 50/50 mix. Course, most flavors aren't that high in the mix but you get the idea. Now, you start with that 25% flavor in PG, add 25% VG nic, and you're sitting at a 50/50 mix that you can take to 75% PG or VG or anywhere in between. Go with VG for flexibility.

Great point !!

 

[glassgal]

Thanks guys! I am going to look for more premade juices first I think, in various %s. Will check all the reviews. Right now, my focus is quitting smoking, or at least forcing a cut back desire, and I know my husband will have a tougher time with trying new flavors. Can someone point me to an off-site that might give info on the most efficient method for tobacco alkaloid extraction for juice making, since I can't see that section here yet? (we have quite a lot of tobacco left, since we were rolling our own before the vaping).

I would try alcohol extraction, but not sure I could get all the alcohol out, and if I did evaporate it all out, the residue would be very gunky and would probably clog the cartomizer? Also, any type of solvent extraction would probably get the nicotine too, because it would get both oil and water soluables. If any of you are doing this, are you using glycerin extraction, distillation or decocting?

 

[SonHouse]

You should be able to see it try here. Note, it can be very advantageous to be rolling your own while quitting. Lot to pick up but you can set that nic level to places that aren't sold like 35mg/ml.

 

[SonHouse]

BTW, alcohol will bring nasties along with it that are better left behind. The discussions are in tha threads in the forum I linked you to.

 

[glassgal]

I see it! Thanks SonHouse!!!