Pg - vg ????

[Trucapri]

If I'm remembering what I've been reading PG can be the cause of headaches in vaping and VG can be the cause of chest heaviness. Is that the general concensis? The reason I'm so interested is that I started with a 50/50 blend. I've been vaping only a week and still adjusting to the proper way to vape with slow steady pulls and so forth. I've noticed so far that when I have good vapor and pull too strongly or vape too long, I get the chest heaviness, however, if my vapor reduces due to low juice or weakening battery I get a dizzy headache. Am I correct in thinking that I may need to increase the VG and continue to practice on a slow, steady draw? Also, is it correct that I can thin down high VG content with distilled water rather than adding PG?

Thanks!!!!!!!

 

[cactusgirl]

In terms of vapor, PG contributes to the throat hit and flavour and VG contributes more to vapor production (ie., higher PG blends give greater throat hit, higher VG blends tend to mute flavor but produce greater vapor) -- VG is thicker and higher VG blends have a tendency to gum up cartomizers and atties quicker than higher PG blends.

Headaches are usually attributed to dehydration -- PG and VG will dehydrate you so you do need to increase your water intake!!! The dizziness could mean that your nic level is a bit high.

 

[swedishfish]

I don't think either one is all that common.

I felt a heaviness in my chest with high VG. I run and felt like I couldn't really run. Now this was soon after I started vaping so it could be VG or it could be symptoms of quitting smoking. I accidently got juice high VG recently and it did feel that way to me.

I think we blame everything going on with us when we start vaping.

Some people have a reaction to high VG. I read more often people have issues with high PG. I think the actual amount of people that have a true allergy is less than 10%. A lot of people say high PG is harsh and bothers their throat. Both are dehydrating but I think PG probably more so.

It's really an individual thing. I think a lot of juice vendors recommend 70pg/30vg or 80pg/20vg. Not too thick and you get a good vapor. Some people vape 100% VG, some 100% PG.

You can thin juice with distilled water. Too much though and you'll dilute the flavor.

 

[Trucapri]

Thanks! Both issues are associated with smoking as well so it's really nothing new, just different, and much more controllable in vaping, thus the question. I'm so thrilled with the transition it's unbelievable and I guess a little impatient to find my personal best fit. Hopefully my distributor won't get tired of me too quickly . . . three orders in three days! LOL I've built my PV to suit me to a tee, now it's just getting the right juice. I've ordered a heavier VG blend and now that I know I can thin it out with distilled water I'm one step closer to finding that "just right" recipe.
Thanks again!

 

[dormouse]

Nicotine is the main cause of headache, not PG. Nicotine is also the main cause of dizziness or hazy ill feeling. And nicotine can cause rapid or irregular heartbeat.

PG is thin and lets through most flavor, most nicotine hit, most nicotine skin irritation, and makes thin visible vapor
VG is thick (too thick alone for many vaping methods), dulls everything PG lets through, makes thicker visible vapor

It is possible that PG might let through nicotine's effect better. Hospitals use PG vapor to deliver inhaled medications so it must be a good delivery system for that. And I figure if it lets the nicotine irritation get to your skin better, it may also let the nicotine be absorbed better or quicker. But somebody would have to study that - I think it's possible. And PG can be more drying - you need to drink fluids and stay hydrated when vaping. But it's still not PG causing the majority of vaping headaches - that is nicotine.

 

[swedishfish]

Headaches as also a symptom of quitting smoking.

 

[grvthang]

this is an interesting thread for me. I posted a thread about having shortness of breath and after reading the comments to my topic and the comments here, I'm more convinced that it's the vg in the juice that's giving me problems. just to make sure though, (in addition to seeing my pulmonary doctor), I'm trying a 100% pg juice and an 80vg/20pg juice for a few days each to see the results.

I would think that this would be a prudent practice for anyone getting into vaping (I'm sorry - I still cant get used to the word - I hate the way it sounds) who's having any kind of issues with headaches or other physical problems.

 

[dormouse]

Nicotine in 100% PG can be very harsh and that can cause irritated mouth, tongue, throat or lungs (as can extreme nicotine in any PG/VG). Nicotine is a skin irritant. Even the patch warns about it. So watch out for those problems too.

And couple of other notes about headache. Quitting smoking can can headaches but you probably would not only get them after vaping more than usual. Nicotine itself is the most common cause. Dehydration is another. chewing on the hard end of the ecig, people with TMJ especially can get a muscle headache due to even just the larger size of the end of the ecig. Automatic batteries can cause headache due to sucking hard repeatedly on them - another benefit of manuals is being able to drag more softly and not need primer drags to warm the coil. Body or head position when vaping might also cause muscle or head aches. But it's usually the nicotine and just vapng too much in too short a time or vaping too-high nicotine.

 

[swedishfish]

3. Headache, Nausea, Shakiness - but see #V4
These, together with irritability, inability to concentrate, poor sleep, depression and so on, are common nicotine withdrawal symptoms. If you are using a low-strength refill liquid and not absorbing as much nicotine as when you normally smoked, you can experience these withdrawal symptoms, which typically last only a few days to a week. Perhaps the use of a higher nic strength refill liquid might be a good idea temporarily, reducing the strength as needed. But: see V4

V4 is too much nicotine.

In other words, who knows? It's either too much or too little. We're all speculating here. None us are doctors.

 

[Trucapri]

I much appreciate all the thoughts. I really think I'm probably using too strong a nicotine and pulling too hard and too often trying to duplicate the way I smoked. I started out with 24 nic to be sure my cravings were taken care of so I wouldn't revert back to the cigs. I'm good there . . . now to get the "feel" right and then work on cutting back on the nic. I hope to have time to pick up my new juice tomorrow, mix it with whats left of my 50/50 and see what happens. I'll let you know!

 

[redbucket]

I agree that you're probably using too high nic. I had sore throat and chest heaviness when I started, and blamed PG/VG for a few days. I live near a quality juice shop, so experimented with different ratios. Nothing helped. So I cut the nic. No more symptoms.

Also -- your draw/frequency isn't the problem. If you draw like a cig, the only problem is you're creating less vapor than many find enjoyable. Maybe getting less nic too. And frequency isn't an issue, most people seem to vape WAY more and WAY more often than they smoked.

 

[Trucapri]

Picked up my vg tonight . . . I went with something I didn't think I had an interest in . . . a non-tobacco flavor. I mixed what was left of my 50/50 MarGirl Methol Light with 100% vg mint chocolate chip and I think this may just be my new standard. I'd say this ratio is on the lines of 25/75. It reminds me of my father's pipe tobacco. Just a whisper of chocolate. Sweet memory and sweet vape! I really love the addtional vapor. I now have an exhale amount that I can relax and "play" with. I'll probably stick with a heavier pg base for office juice. I don't need anyone calling attention to the "smoke" . . .LOL
Thank you everyone for giving me a little brain juice on the mixes of vape juice!

 

[hairball]

Your physical symptoms can come from a bunch of things as previously stated by several members. Just remember that it will take awhile for the toxins to get out of you for some of the symptoms to go away. Also, play with different nic strengths and ratios until you find one that doesn't cause you any problems. When I first started vaping over a year ago, I couldn't vape any PG. It made me itch really bad. I bought all VG juices, vaped them for about a month, then started slowly adding PG back in...I liked the taste of the pg juice the best. Now, I can vape anything without having any problems.

 

[Balthezar]

You might also want to check this thread, may answer some of your questions :

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/health-safety-e-smoking/3305-list-symptoms-when-quitting-tobacco-changing-ecigarette.html

 

[grvthang]

I got my juice today from VaporBomb - a 100% pg juice and a 80vg/20pg juice in the same flavor. I ordered them both to try and see if one of them will be easier on my chest. I have copd, and after vaping for a month w/o analogs, my breathing is shorter than before - to the point where I'm getting very concerned. I made an appointment with my pulmonary doctor, but it's not until Jan 4. I want to continue vaping, because I'm doing so well with it, but I may have to give it up and see about some other method of quitting smoking if this breathing situation doesn't improve.

Anyway, I tried filling a cartomizer I cleaned (using the 'turkey baster' method) a couple of days ago with the 100% pg juice and...nothing. No vapor at all. I'm using a KR808D1. I thought maybe the cartomizer was damaged, so I filled another one I cleaned using the same method, and got the same result - no vapor at all.
I added a few drops of some 'normal' fluid I had laying around, and now I'm getting some very thin vapor that's not very satisfying.
Is it normal to get no vapor out of 100% pg using a rig like a KR808D1?

 

[Trucapri]

grvthang, I haven't been vaping long enough to speak on the different juice recipes, PV models, accessories and such, but I have been smoking long enough to give you a few thoughts to ponder . . . were you a light enhaler, always with enough smoke in your mouth to do rings if you wanted? Do you have enough smoke in your exhale to visably see the release through your nostrils? Or did you smoke like me . . . hard, deep and nothing much left to exhale? Although many have said they vape more than they smoked, I can't say that. A little more often because of the convenience, but not more. My PV lays on the edge of the table in the same place by cigs and lighter used to rest. Because of these things, I needed more vaper to truly be satisfied with the healthier switch and I got what I needed by increasing the VG in my liquid. Now I can cut back on the nic with my next order because I've got both the cravings and the "habit" under control and absolutely no desire to go back to the bacca sticks. Think about your previous smoking habits and then try your 80/20 experimenting with your drag and exhale to see if you just need to make an adjustment on your "style". Best wishes and please keep us posted on how you're doing!!

 

[grvthang]

grvthang, I haven't been vaping long enough to speak on the different juice recipes, PV models, accessories and such, but I have been smoking long enough to give you a few thoughts to ponder . . . were you a light enhaler, always with enough smoke in your mouth to do rings if you wanted? Do you have enough smoke in your exhale to visably see the release through your nostrils? Or did you smoke like me . . . hard, deep and nothing much left to exhale? Although many have said they vape more than they smoked, I can't say that. A little more often because of the convenience, but not more. My PV lays on the edge of the table in the same place by cigs and lighter used to rest. Because of these things, I needed more vaper to truly be satisfied with the healthier switch and I got what I needed by increasing the VG in my liquid. Now I can cut back on the nic with my next order because I've got both the cravings and the "habit" under control and absolutely no desire to go back to the bacca sticks. Think about your previous smoking habits and then try your 80/20 experimenting with your drag and exhale to see if you just need to make an adjustment on your "style". Best wishes and please keep us posted on how you're doing!!

Trucapri, thanks very much for your insight. I smoke like you descibed yourself doing - I take a deep drag, and "swallow' it - hardly anything is exhaled. And I don't vape more than I smoked; I probably take fewer 'drags' per day than I did on the analogs (the way some of these people describe their vaping, especially with pass-throughs, it sounds like they just sit there and continuously vape for hours at a time).
Of course, I don't know what's actually going on in my lungs, but I do know that when you have copd and emphysema, the smaller cells that your lungs break out into get clogged and eventually die; I feel like the oil in the vg in the vapor is coating them and preventing them from functioning properly. That's how it feels, anyway - a thickness, a heaviness, in my chest.

 

[swedishfish]

One thing I have to say, the Vapor Bomb juice improves SO much after about a week or so. I don't know if the vapor will change but taste gets much better!

 

[Trucapri]

That heavy chest is the feeling I was having with 50/50. I got my VG last night, mixed it with what was left of my 50/50 and today I've truly enjoyed ALL of the advantages of e-cigs. Have you read the e-cig tutorials from this web's home page? They state you can get VG from any pharmacy (they explain what to look for) and since you won't be able to see your Dr. until after the first of the year, perhaps speak to your Pharmacist. Mixing the e-cig recipes with my meds was a concern and all I had to do was ask. . . and read between the lines a little . . . LOL There's also a section about sore throats when converting to e-cigs that sounds like it could effect the lungs somewhat the same way for a deep enhaler. The tutorial gave me the instructions on how to change my "habit" to get the full effect from e-cigs. That too has helped.

COPD is nothing to take lightly, and I thoroughly commend you for being fully aware and trying to find a comfortable, workable solution for staying away from the "smoke"! Best wishes and keep us updated!

 

[grvthang]

One thing I have to say, the Vapor Bomb juice improves SO much after about a week or so. I don't know if the vapor will change but taste gets much better!

I only got the 5ml-size bottles to try them out - I don't think they'll be around in a week. But you oughta know - you're a PV Master (I don't want to start any trouble, but in your case shouldn't that be PV MISTRESS?)