Philip Morris

[kiwivap]

Damn Philip Morris. So many more people are vaping here since I started vaping nearly 6 years ago. Actually, I quit cigarettes nearly 6 years ago. I haven't vaped for about the last 2-3:years. It really annoys me that a major tobacco company can try to cause this kind of confusion. We predicted this here on ECF years ago:
Tobacco giant Philip Morris defends non-burning product under smoke-free laws

 

[Opinionated]

They just want to sell their product ... the court's will rule however they will rule.

I don't think they are trying to create confusion so much as they are trying to find legal loopholes so they can make a few bucks.

You can feel about that however you please. ..personally I can't fault them for trying and no ones trying to force me to use their product so I'm good.

 

[r77r7r]

CASAA supports them and they in return.

 

[bombastinator]

They just want to sell their product ... the court's will rule however they will rule.

I don't think they are trying to create confusion so much as they are trying to find legal loopholes so they can make a few bucks.

You can feel about that however you please. ..personally I can't fault them for trying and no ones trying to force me to use their product so I'm good.

Considering the history of Phillip Morris don’t count on it. I expect this thing to be part of a way to make these things legal but vaping not

 

[Opinionated]

Considering the history of Phillip Morris don’t count on it. I expect this thing to be part of a way to make these things legal but vaping not

I find it doubtful they will succeed with that - although no doubt they would love for that to happen as they've never been able to break into the vaping market and control it like they would like - but what they would like and what will happen are two different things.

Vaping has caught hold now with the public and has been tested on humans 10 years with far more positive human testing results than any FDA approved drug on the market.

It won't take long in so-called free countries for governments to realize the battle against vaping is a losing one.. then they will just regulate and tax it to death..

Because that's what it's about in the end.. luxury tax.

 

[stols001]

I don't know that I'd expect Phillip Morris to put that kind of money into a device and then lose one of their largest possible share markets.

The fact that they are using "heat not burn" to defend it.... Well, technically it IS that. I've never once considered the IQOS for myself, but I don't begrudge it market share if it can move a smoker towards harm reduction. To me, the device is so finicky, riddled with issues, and hard to use (from what I've seen on reviews) that my only issue with it is that it might turn off some smokers who might do better with vaping.

But the ones that don't and really need something more substantial, and "cigarette-like?" Well, I don't see why it shouldn't be on the market.

I don't think this is an attack on vaping, I think it's likely that Phillip Morris's lawyers determined that going down this road was going to beneficial for them. It make sense to me in a way, it is not technically a "combustion" device.

What this may or many not do for vaping, I have no clue. But, I really doubt it is going to substantially change the outcome for all vapers, etc. I think that decision will be affected more by the fact that legislators are going to want to tax ANYTHING they can stick a warning "nicotine" label on, even if it's a battery, a tank, etc.

So, I'm not overwhelmingly conflicted on this one, and as I don't hate tobacco companies more than the government (the majority of the cost for tobacco is really taxation, not the actual tobacco company) and I don't blame them for wanting to bring their own "innovative" (and it kind of is, although like most new innovation, riddled with issues) and "expensive" (and, it IS, SO EXPENSIVE) device to market. I believe in market choice proving a device, not anything else, and that is what I think is so great about vaping, right now it's a pretty free market. People can make their choices.

I was interested the last time I saw someone buy a "cigalike" product from the gas station. She had clearly bought before, the clerk recognized her, and asked "which flavor" it was rather utilitarian and rather like one's morning purchase of a "pack of tobacco". Yes, she was paying more, it was not a hobby, but it was significantly safer (if not cheaper) than tobacco and was clearly working for her.... All types of vapers in the world. I think I would buy a cigalike after someone robbed me of all my vapes on an outing perhaps, and that might be the only time I would buy one.... But it takes all types of methods for great harm reduction.

Anna

 

[zoiDman]

Damn Philip Morris. So many more people are vaping here since I started vaping nearly 6 years ago. Actually, I quit cigarettes nearly 6 years ago. I haven't vaped for about the last 2-3:years. It really annoys me that a major tobacco company can try to cause this kind of confusion. We predicted this here on ECF years ago:
Tobacco giant Philip Morris defends non-burning product under smoke-free laws

I'm kinda Confused. What, exactly, is PMI doing that is causing Confusion?

Seems like they have a Product that they Don't feel falls under the Statutory Interpretation of a Smoke-Free piece of Legislation. Much like we have a Product which is/was in the Same Boat here in the USA.

Don't get me wrong. I have no great love for PMI or BT. But if there is No Smoke, why is OK for Us to argue Our Case? And Not OK for PMI to argue theirs?

 

[Zutankhamun]

Oh how you guys turn...

I remember when mr Benson & his pal Hedges were my best friends

 

[rollersk4te]

Okay, has anyone actually tried this device.... or even seen it anywhere? This is the first I've seen/heard of it.

 

[bombastinator]

Okay, has anyone actually tried this device.... or even seen it anywhere? This is the first I've seen/heard of it.

It’s not sold in the US. Just a few test countries. Japan is one. You can get them on eBay for over a hundred bucks, which imho is beyond insane.

 

[zoiDman]

Okay, has anyone actually tried this device.... or even seen it anywhere? This is the first I've seen/heard of it.

PMI had such High Hopes for the IQOS in the USA...

Philip Morris outlines its plan for IQOS' introduction in the US

Then this happened...

U.S. senators ask FDA to reject Philip Morris' iQOS application

And then it got worse. Much Worse...

U.S. panel deals blow to Philip Morris tobacco device

 

[stols001]

I think Oliver reviewed it on the parent site. There were some pros, and some cons. A fair number of cons.

Anna

 

[Izan]

One of the dads from school just switched over to the IQOOS.
He's seen me vaping, conspicuously, for the past 4 years and finally took the decision to "try" something to reduce the number of cigarettes he smoked each day.

The Iqoos is sold in the same tobacco store as his cigarettes.
Now he goes to get a pack of HEETS instead of a pack of Marlboro.
It was easy and convenient for him. No drip tips, no liquid, no external batteries, no settings, no screen, no fuss, no muss.

and in the end...He's NOT smoking nasty cigarettes any longer.



Cheers
I

 

[WillyZee]

I wouldn't trade in my ProVari/Kayfun for these, even if BT gave them away for free.

 

[rollersk4te]

So... vaping is dangerous and deadly, but this device which actually uses tobacco and not nicotine isn't?

....

It was one thing when big tobacco was trying to knock out the competition with the FDA regulations, but now it seems like they just want to eat their cake and have it, too.

 

[ENAUD]

Heat not burn is a viable harm reduction product category, the thing to keep in mind is where it falls along the line of harm reduction from low to high. Say, low end would be patch, gum, lozenge... Vape, ... On up to smoking. Non combustible tobacco has a place in that continuum as would HNB.

The BT companies business model is procuring raw tobacco plant matter, and curing, blending, and processing it into a consumer product. HNB fits way more easily into their business model than redefining themselves into a vapor MFG.

The regs on tobacco are supposed to allow less harmful products to be developed, but that has been fought at every turn by the powers that be, so they have all FAILED in their job.

Many smokers could benefit from HNB bacause it is a harm reduction product, it appears to be way less of a learning curve to adopt than vaping for the first time user. The heat sticks look familiar to cigarettes.

I see it as a possible stepping stone for smokers to start down the path of harm reduction products. Maybe some will find that they can get along fine with HNB, and continue down the harm reduction continuum of products perhaps eventually giving vapor products a try.

 

[zoiDman]

...

The regs on tobacco are supposed to allow less harmful products to be developed, but that has been fought at every turn by the powers that be, so they have all FAILED in their job.

...

That is the Truly Sad irony in all of this.

Because the FDA is Not just supposed to be allowing Modified Risk Tobacco Products (MRTP's), they are supposed to Encouraging their Development.

But past FDA Leadership(s) just kept Bashing the Square MRTP Peg into the All Tobacco Products are Bad Round Hole.

If I didn't know, it would Almost seem that the previous FDA's Didn't Give a Damn about Smokers or Public Health at the Population Level.

Maybe this FDA can see things a Little Different.

 

[HauntedMyst]

I feel bad for Phillip Morris. They are sad as they sit on the pile of bones they have created.

 

[stols001]

Oh... I don't feel so bad for Phillip Morris, but I AM taking this as a sign that regardless of what the FDA says/said, they aren't interested in true innovation.... This IS a harm reduction product, and unless the FDA knows things I don't (well, probably) this is just a sign to me that both cigarettes and vaping are facing an uncertain, limited future, at least over the next 4, I hope? 8 years??

There is no way that our fearless leader, who has never tasted alcohol is going to be "into" harm reduction for us addicts. It's going to all be the WORST possible combination of vaping and smoking, combined. Us addicts need to go cold turkey and/or live with the consequences.

Or, vape smart, plan ahead, and take this as a "sign".. I take it as one.

Anna

 

[kiwivap]

"The Swiss study compared the harmful compounds in the air generated by IQOS with those of regular cigarettes. The study found that although IQOS generated many toxic chemicals at lower rates, some were much higher than Philip Morris claimed. It also found that IQOS produced 295 percent more of one hazardous compound than traditional cigarettes."
Big tobacco's new cigarette is sleek, smokeless — but is it actually healthier?