Please Convince Me Not to Give Up on RBAs :(

[Kemosabe]

ive got a DuD. i want it to work so badly. i had it up and running on sunday. it was pumping out excellent vapor until this morning. it was working early this AM, then i go to take another puff and nothing. i test ohms, and i get the OP error. when i tell you i touched nothing, i literally touched nothing but the fire button. how could it go from firing perfectly for close to 3 days, and then nothing...without me even doing anything?

im so frustrated with this thing.

when i first built the coil, it was 2.0ohms, then quickly went to 1.9. after a few minutes of vaping, it went down again to 1.8. it stayed at 1.8 from sunday all through last night. this AM after a few vapes, it conks out. so i let it rest and just for kicks, i try firing it. sure enough it fires up but now the resistance is 2.3. why?
i increase the voltage to make up for the increased resistance, and boom- back to OP. not E1 or something signifying a short/too low of a resistance, just OP. as if its not screwed on all the way.

its as if my center post isnt making contact, but i know for sure that it is. my problem when i first got the thing was a "floaty" center post and loose lead screws. on sunday, i took the entire tank apart, secured the center post good and tight, and when i built the coil i was careful not to overwrap the leads and make sure my nuts were screwed down firmly.

i thought i was good to go until my coil died. did my coil die? is three days all im expected to get from a coil? doesnt seem right.

someone please help. i want this thing to work so badly.

 

[EDO]

Something is loose....Are your bases fully tightened? When I put the DUD together I make sure everything is super tight...because every time you put on or take of the top cap you can turn the base slightly if they aren't tightened properly. If the bases are super tight...check out the positive connection...sometimes the lead gets loose and isn't making a good enough contact with the positive post. Redo the connection by using tweezers to pull on the lead wire before tightening the top screw. I always leave about 5mm of wire sticking out of the positive connection so that if I have to redo the positive connection I have something to grab on to....hope this helps you out....good luck.

 

[ukeman]

I am no expert... but i do find the rba's with silica (or cotton) wicks are easier to make and use, at least the ones that only require one wire.
That's based on dumping my Genesis rba's due to ignorance and lack of skill in coil making... I'n ready to give mesh another try though but still looking...
I think i'll see which ones Scott (youtube) says are the easiest...

Oh, i suggest you have plenty of backup atomizers.... for when you need instant gratification; Hybrid atomizers are great; close to the flavor of an rba... Aero or AMG slant coil Hybrids are foolproof.

 

[Kemosabe]

ok i figured it out. my coil did die. it popped, actually. must have been a hot spot because it was the top coil right near the pos lead that is now not connected to the rest of the coil.

sorry if my 1st post was TLDR.

how do i prevent hot spots? is there anyhting besides messign with the coil after its built that i can do? its seems like such an arbitrary thing to do: just raking the syringe across the coils. i think id do better if i knew exactly what i was trying to accomplish by raking.

 

[locke2121]

The best way, as I understand it, to avoid hot spots is to make sure there is COMPLETE oxidation on the wick. The hotspot occurs when the coil shorts out on the wick. From what I've seen, the paper trick, where you wrap a small amount of cig paper around the top of the wick before putting on the coil works pretty well. It creates a layer of carbon between the coild and wick.

 

[ukeman]

amazing....

The best way, as I understand it, to avoid hot spots is to make sure there is COMPLETE oxidation on the wick. The hotspot occurs when the coil shorts out on the wick. From what I've seen, the paper trick, where you wrap a small amount of cig paper around the top of the wick before putting on the coil works pretty well. It creates a layer of carbon between the coild and wick.

 

[dirtyrigger]

sounds like your hot spot was more likely on the positive lead (little stretch of wire between the wick and the positive post) than on the coil, thats where it was at least when my early coils popped. the trick is to minimize that lead. get the wick as close to the positive post as you can, without touching the two, and keep wire length that is not contacting the wick or post as short as possible. also make sure your top coil is in contact with the wick. i leave a little extra wire hanging out after i tighten my positive lead because i've had it where the nut on the positive post loosens and my top coil will unroll a hair causing it to lose contact with the wick which will cause hot spots and burnt tasting hits. that little extra makes it easier to grab onto and pull it back where it goes when i retighten the positive nut.

 

[Azphat12]

Im in the same boat. Over the last week, I have been trying to get the Aga-T to work properly.
I might try the cig paper trick. Also have a Vamo coming to replace the Twist batteries. Im hoping that better power source helps also.

 

[Kemosabe]

The best way, as I understand it, to avoid hot spots is to make sure there is COMPLETE oxidation on the wick. The hotspot occurs when the coil shorts out on the wick. From what I've seen, the paper trick, where you wrap a small amount of cig paper around the top of the wick before putting on the coil works pretty well. It creates a layer of carbon between the coild and wick.

right on. thank you for bolstering the cig paper trick. i did try that and it did work great. the coil was glowing as evenly as ive ever seen. however, i think i may have rubbed off some of the oxidization while trying to secure my top nut. every time i screwed the pos lead tight, it would pull the wick up against the center post. so what i did was hold the wick away from the post with my finger, while tightening the nut and holding the wire taught with my other hand. which reminds me: how do most people do this? aside from having 3 hands, i cant quite seem to find a way to pull it off.

sounds like your hot spot was more likely on the positive lead (little stretch of wire between the wick and the positive post) than on the coil, thats where it was at least when my early coils popped. the trick is to minimize that lead. get the wick as close to the positive post as you can, without touching the two, and keep wire length that is not contacting the wick or post as short as possible. also make sure your top coil is in contact with the wick. i leave a little extra wire hanging out after i tighten my positive lead because i've had it where the nut on the positive post loosens and my top coil will unroll a hair causing it to lose contact with the wick which will cause hot spots and burnt tasting hits. that little extra makes it easier to grab onto and pull it back where it goes when i retighten the positive nut.

Yes. you are nailing it. totally describing my setup. thank for for that trick. i will try that.
dang i wish i had my allen key and some wire here at work. im dying to get back to work on this thing.

 

[EDO]

Kemosabe...I think I already mentioned to you about the zen's video on provape....he teaches you how to adjust the coils properly. I think it is great to know how to adjust coils because even if you set up a perfect coil....the next day the coils can move on you. Having said that, the best way to set up a perfect coil is shown in this video:

LavaGen - YouTube

The only thing that is required is a drill bit that fits perfectly in your wick hole.

Edit: you can skip to 4:30 mark.

 

[Kemosabe]

Something is loose....Are your bases fully tightened? When I put the DUD together I make sure everything is super tight...because every time you put on or take of the top cap you can turn the base slightly if they aren't tightened properly. If the bases are super tight...check out the positive connection...sometimes the lead gets loose and isn't making a good enough contact with the positive post. Redo the connection by using tweezers to pull on the lead wire before tightening the top screw. I always leave about 5mm of wire sticking out of the positive connection so that if I have to redo the positive connection I have something to grab on to....hope this helps you out....good luck.

somehow i missed this post earlier.
thank you, EDO. i did experience the looseness that you speak of on previous builds. i still may have had something loose on this build too, but i tried really hard not to. could be the top cap thing you mention. or maybe the hotspot partially broke the wire, creating the higher resistance. and then when i continued to fire it, the wire completely split in two. im just spitballin here for conversations sake. wondering if anyone thinks that scenario is possible.

 

[Kemosabe]

Kemosabe...I think I already mentioned to you about the zen's video on provape....he teaches you how to adjust the coils properly. I think it is great to know how to adjust coils because even if you set up a perfect coil....the next day the coils can move on you. Having said that, the best way to set up a perfect coil is shown in this video:

LavaGen - YouTube

The only thing that is required is a drill bit that fits perfectly in your wick hole.

yes you did show me the Zen video, and it helped me a lot.
i am watching the LavaGen video now. i will comment on it once i finish viewing.
your help is always appreciated.

 

[EDO]

The positive lead is a ...........there are always problems there....almost all the failures occur there. On trick everyone can do is to buy some nonresistance wire/Nichrome resistance wire combo. I think inhaler still sells them. Make your wraps with one of those and then make sure the top coils is a complete loop of NR wire. My current set up is that...works like a charm and takes about a couple of minutes to set up. You can make it your self if you have some Nichrome 34 wire and some NR wire like pure nickel or silver. this video shows you how: Review of the Odysseus repairable atomiser for electronic cigarettes by E-Cig-Reviews.com Watch from 9:15 till 10:34. You don't need to make NR lead for the negative ground.....just one for the positive post...so it is very easy to do.

IMHO nichrome works way better than kanthal....because you can make your wraps super tight and super compact without getting any hot spots....the only hotspot that will occur is at the positive lead...but since we made the top loop NR wire....there are no hot spots...period.

Once you have the combo wire it takes about a couple of minutes to make your set up. Flame the resistant wire a little first with a lighter. Just hold the wick in you hand...hold part were the NR wire and R wire meet at the point were you think the top coil should be and start making your wraps evenly and as compact and tightly as you can make them in clock wise fashion. make 5 wraps. Put the wick in the wick hole while holding on to the leads. Since the coils aren't particularly tight you can move the whole coil up or down to the correct position. With a good amount of tension make a clockwise wrap around the negative post and the tighten the screw. Now pull on the NR wire to make the the upper coils tight....make a loop on top of the uppermost coil with the NR wire. Now the top coil is a complete loop of NR wire. take the NR lead wrap it around the positive post...tighten the screw and your done. I hope I was clear in my instructions.... It is very easy to do.

Back to kanthal...Hot spots are either caused by little shorts or by the wire not being close enough to the metal mesh. Assuming you have a good mesh you shouldn't have shorts in it. The problem with kanthal is you have to have a perfect balance of being very close to the mesh but not to be wrapped tightly around the mesh. Even if you have a perfect mesh, you can't wrap kanthal tightly around the mesh because it will become way too unresponsive. If a spot is wrapped tightly around the mesh it won't glow....it is a dead coil. Now if you have coil that is to loose around the mesh it will heat up crazy and that is a hot spot/coil. So when you are adjusting the coils you are trying to form the coil so that it goes perfectly around the mesh...no hot spots or hot coils and no dead coils. BTW with Nichrome you don't have this problem. You can wrap it pretty tightly around the mesh and you won't have dead coils. The only thing is you have to have a good wick for you to be able to use nichrome....since you wraping the coils tightly around the mesh if you have a short in the mesh it just won't work.

 

[ukeman]

Thanks Edo!

Couldn't find the wire on nhaler though....
will have to dig around for some n/r wire and where to get nichrome.

Haven't gotten my Gene style rba yet either so I'm just mentally preparing... again

 

[EDO]

Ukeman.....as you can see this forum is filled with posts with people having problems with Genesis attys. Big part of the problem is the finickiness of kanthal. I can make perfect coils with Kanthal....but I just don't like adjusting coils....and you have to do that pretty much daily if you are a chain vapor like me. With nichrome your coils are tight around the wick so they don't move. Once you set it up....you don't need to touch it again.

Look at ebay...search nichrome 34 and nickel wire 32.....best prices there.

 

[spraintz]

Hate to say it fellers but the main thing that causes these issues is the oxidization of the wick. When properly oxidized a coil will not need constant daily adjustment. The thicker gauges of Kanthal wire are actually the least "finicky" of the wires out there. If you have a nicely oxidized wick you can wrap a coil give it some minor adjustment on the first dry fire and and rock-n-roll that sucker for a week or more. If you adhere to a regular "dry firing" routine to clean gunked up coils you can keep a coil going for upwards of 2-3 weeks....maybe more.

Yes, the DuD is not a super precise atomizer and you must make sure that everything is tight and that there is no shorting of the positive post and the atomizer body, but it really isn't that bad and should be able to be made to work pretty easily........tons of folks have flawless builds every time.

I know nobody wants to hear it but I still firmly believe that a good wick will solve almost all of these problems, the type of wire IMO is far less important than getting the wick oxidized right.

 

[Kemosabe]

I happen to have some nichrome. Ill try some.
Since my coil popped earlier, I tried rebuilding. Got the dang OP error again. Made sure the center post was making contact. The resistance would flash 5.3 for example and then error out immediately. Adjusted the coil, tested it again. Same thing. Quick ohm flash, then OP. I thought it was my wick, so I pulled it out to re-oxidize. While it was out, the coil was still intact, so I tried firing it. No dice. OP. so I grabbed a different piece of wire, still no dice. What gives?

 

[spraintz]

I saw one user have an issue with the center pin coming in contact with inner part of the atomizer body (that center tube between the base and the upper part) and isolated it with a bit of PTFE tubing and fixed a lot of issues. I did this on mine as well just as a precaution.

...just a thought.

 

[j4mmin42]

Hate to say it fellers but the main thing that causes these issues is the oxidization of the wick. When properly oxidized a coil will not need constant daily adjustment. The thicker gauges of Kanthal wire are actually the least "finicky" of the wires out there. If you have a nicely oxidized wick you can wrap a coil give it some minor adjustment on the first dry fire and and rock-n-roll that sucker for a week or more. If you adhere to a regular "dry firing" routine to clean gunked up coils you can keep a coil going for upwards of 2-3 weeks....maybe more.

Yes, the DuD is not a super precise atomizer and you must make sure that everything is tight and that there is no shorting of the positive post and the atomizer body, but it really isn't that bad and should be able to be made to work pretty easily........tons of folks have flawless builds every time.

I know nobody wants to hear it but I still firmly believe that a good wick will solve almost all of these problems, the type of wire IMO is far less important than getting the wick oxidized right.

Couldn't have said it better myself

 

[EDO]

I do have perfectly oxidized wicks or else i wouldn't be able to tightly wrap nichrome around it and get it to work perfectly. However, I still have to adjust my coils daily with kanthal. I also make perfect kanthal coils....I can slide my wick out do dry burns and then put the wick back in....but even when I set up the coils to perfection I still get hot coils a day or so after the build. I have done builds with 30 awg kanthal but not 28awg. Unless you have a provari that can handle low ohms...you have to make at least ten wraps to get 28 awg working on a lavatube.

I don't know if its my vape pattern or what that is the problem.... after vaping constantly the whole day... I go through about 2ml of elquid in one hour right before I go to bed....this is torture for my coils. My Kanthal coils move significantly after this....the device isn't vapable the next morning. I don't have this problem with nichrome. You can tightly wrap kanthal around the wick but then the coils become very unresponsive.....you have to vape a 1.8ohm coil at above 5v to get any decent vapor out of it...and the taste isn't that great when you tightly wrap kanthal....not to mention the batteries die out every couple of hours ( i use 18350 batteries).

Hate to say it fellers but the main thing that causes these issues is the oxidization of the wick. When properly oxidized a coil will not need constant daily adjustment. The thicker gauges of Kanthal wire are actually the least "finicky" of the wires out there. If you have a nicely oxidized wick you can wrap a coil give it some minor adjustment on the first dry fire and and rock-n-roll that sucker for a week or more. If you adhere to a regular "dry firing" routine to clean gunked up coils you can keep a coil going for upwards of 2-3 weeks....maybe more.

Yes, the DuD is not a super precise atomizer and you must make sure that everything is tight and that there is no shorting of the positive post and the atomizer body, but it really isn't that bad and should be able to be made to work pretty easily........tons of folks have flawless builds every time.

I know nobody wants to hear it but I still firmly believe that a good wick will solve almost all of these problems, the type of wire IMO is far less important than getting the wick oxidized right.