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Discussion in 'Batteries and Chargers' started by Mooch, Jan 28, 2018.

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  1. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    EDIT: Got some great advice, thanks! Post deleted.
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  2. mimöschen

    mimöschen Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 15, 2016
    I think it would be nice to have a few more options listed in each category, since not all batteries on the shorter list are always available everywhere.

    After thinking about it a little bit from a safety standpoint, the division between the "high capacity" and "high power" category can be a bit irritating imo, because of the listed batteries different CDRs with a (recommended) spread of up to 13A. And the question arises, why the 25R is a high power cell, while the HG2 is "only" high capacity, although they both have the same CDR?
    I'd propose to list 18650s just by power level low, medium and high.
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  3. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    Thanks for the feedback.
    The high capacity and high power categories are based on all the questions I get, asking for the best in those two categories.

    The 25R has a lower internal resistance and hits harder and is used a lot by mech users with low ohm builds. Very few mech users above modest power levels use the HG2. They could but the performance would be lacking versus the 25R.

    The CDR is a safety and cycle life statement for the battery. It is only very loosely tied to performance.

    Where would you divide low, medium, and high power?
    How would you take performance into account on the table with division just by power, i.e., CDR?
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  4. beckah54

    beckah54 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 27, 2009
    I personally like the simplicity of this new table. Thank you Mooch!
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  5. stols001

    stols001 Mistress of the Dark Nicotinic Arts Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 30, 2017
    Tucson, AZ
    I think I agree that some vapers may not have access to the best cells, so including all testing could be helpful. Or, you could have one more simple table, perhaps somehow linked to the second. Like: these are recommended batteries for those who have access to these cells, but if one doesn't, they could click on a more extensive table, one noting that some may be rewraps (possibly) but this is how they tested now, and still keeping some of the older/more arcane batteries for those who need them? Not sure if it's possible to "link" tables like that, because you'd want to have both connected somehow, so folks don't just wind up with the second table.

    This is starting to sound like an unwieldy solution, but if it's possible, it might create a clear division between "Cells I trust to remain the same" vs. "Cells I have tested, but it's not clear that they are genuinely "authentic" and buy at your own risk type thing? IDK.

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  6. retired1

    retired1 Administrator Admin Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 5, 2013
    Perhaps two sections. Best of the best, and then additional recommended cells. I know when I started out, there wasn't much in the way of choice and ordering online outside of the country resulted in outrageous shipping fees. On a limited budget, I had to settle for what was local, and there was a lot of crap being sold.
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  7. mimöschen

    mimöschen Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 15, 2016
    After following your tests for quite a while, I'm aware of the differences between the HG2 and 25R, but from the standpoint of a newbie, that might not be so obvious, which could cause more questions to arise.
    Although I understand and welcome your decision to list the batteries by performance, I think it's more important to list them by safety.

    Concerning the different CDRs available, I'd go for 21A+, 20-15A and lower than 14A. But I know that this division is debateable and perhaps even a bit random.
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  8. suprtrkr

    suprtrkr ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    I'm hardly a new user, Mooch, and from talking to you over time I have a pretty good idea what cells I want for which purpose anyway. I can pick and choose by what's on sale at which good retailers on any given day. But our n00bs do not have this luxury. I link your chart all the time, and what the new guys want is an answer, not more decisions to make. Therefore, I do like your reduced chart. There's less confusion, and I think that's good. Even mindful of your above answer about the division between power and capacity, I too think it a bit arbitrary. Maybe rethink that, and use a dividing line of over/under 60W/cell? Maybe two charts? This one and the full one in reserve? The "best all around" rating is wonderful. That should stay no matter where you go.

    As always, thanks for all you do, and for heaven's sake, please keep up the good work.
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  9. sonicbomb

    sonicbomb Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 17, 2015
    1187 Hunterwasser
    What suprtrkr said, simple is good. Just getting beginners to pick a suitable battery is prime, the best performing for their application can come later.
    • Like Like x 4
  10. dripster

    dripster Super Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 18, 2017
    Maybe add a performance score to all your tables like you did in your "26650 Ratings and Performance" table. For mech users, please also consider to add at least some info about the relationship between the voltage sag and current draw, as IMO the internal resistance number (from your individual battery tests) alone is not sufficient for a new mech user to get a handle on whether a bigger-than-18650-battery can be a better choice in terms of mech performance, for example.

    As for the safety, I've noticed some people would rather avoid these aforementioned "bigger" batteries, just because these batteries are practically all rewraps, as opposed to acknowledge the fact many of these rewraps offer a higher CDR than the vast majority of "recommended" 18650 batteries.
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