Please help a newcomer (low nico/max throat hit/no sweetness)

[wessberg]

Hi there. I'm new around here and in the vaping game in general. My journey so far haven't been great, so let me try to walk you through it before requesting your help as to how to proceed. Thanks in advance.

I've been smoking 20 analogs per day for many years and recently decided to switch to vaping with a gradual reduction in nicotine.

I assume that my case is extremely common, but it's like every store I go to provide me with things that misses the target completely. I really don't understand why.

When I presented my situation to the first store I went into they provided me with a MTL starter kit and some "premium" pre-blended tobacco-flavored juices with 12mg/ml and 6mg/ml Nico.

The hardware is the Endura T18EP (Endura T18 Vape Pen - Innokin)

I went home and didn't like it at all - it was way too sweet tasting. And the 6mg/ml Nico variant didn't give my any throat hit whatsoever (which is a bummer). At this point I knew nothing about PG/VG, (I later discovered that it was 65PG/35VG).

I went to another store and told them that I had tried some premium tobacco juice, but it was too sweet for me, and I was basically looking for something that tasted as close to regular cigarettes as possible. At this point, I still knew nothing about PG/VG. The store went ahead and provided me with a tobacco aroma and a Nico base of 50PG/50VG/6mg/ml nico and asked that I blended it myself (which I found to be pretty challenging, I had barely started vaping, and today I find it so weird to fulfil my request by giving me something with an even larger VG concentration).

I liked this even less. Not only was it sweet, but I had to really chain-vape to get something remotely resembling throat hit. I was dead-set on keeping the nico levels as low as possible. At this point I was like "what the f...", I should be an easy customer to satisfy since so much trial and error of other ex-smokers have gone before me.

I then learned that VG has a natural sweetness to it and that it causes the vape clouds (couldn't care less about vape clouds). I learned that PG carries the aroma better since it is tasteless, and that it causes throat hit.

Great, so I went to a third store, hoping to meet some person that could basically say "I know exactly how you feel, I started out like yourself, here's what you should get", but no such occurrence happened. Instead I said "Do you have a nico base with little or no VG concentration?". They said no. Apparantly that is very uncommon. I said "I'm looking for throat hit comparable to analogs, with no sweetness to the taste and as little nicotine as possible while I'm trying to gradually reduce my nico in-take". They reaponsed with a pre-blended "USA Mix" juice that was 70PG/30VG. Bought one with 0mg nico and one with 6mg.

This one was maybe slightly less sweet (but sweet nevertheless), but it tasted nothing like analogs. And I had to vape like crazy to get the slightest feeling of throat hit.

This is where I am today. It has been so discouraging to meet so little understanding from basically every shop I've been to. I refuse to believe I am unique in the taste I'm looking for.

So now I'm here. I'm asking you the same question as I've been asking everyone.

I'm looking for something that tastes and more importantly feels as close to analogs as possible while keeping nicotine levels at a mimimum. Is it even possible? They say it is, but I keep getting disappointed. Should I go 100% PG? I'm looking for a dry taste.

The hardware is a secondary concern, but right now I'm focusing my energy on finding the right juice.

 

[Izan]

Hi and welcome,
IMO, get off the cigarettes first...worry about the almost harmless nicotine later.
Where are you located?
What equipment are you using? Battery device/topper/tank added to OP


Cheers
I

 

[Falconeer]

Hi and welcome!

In my time I smoked alot of unfiltered Senior Service and Players' British Virginia style cigarettes and then for many years smoked a pipe ( inhaling a certain ammount of the smoke, which most pipemen do although they say they don't. )

I ran through various "tobacco" flavoured juices before I came to the conclusion that vaping liquid is never going to taste just like smoking tobacco.

IMHO nicotine is partly responsible for the prickle/throat hit/ feeling of satisfaction smoking gave and which vaping can equal with the right juice.

Quite frankly at this stage I wouldn't be worried overmuch about nicotine intake ( within reason ) as this is something you can reduce later once you are well away from cigarettes.

If I were you I'd be looking at a 50/50 PG/VG mix at at least 12 strength and possibly 16 to begin with. In fact I'd be looking at making my own unflavoured juice - which is actually simpler than you might think. Menthol, even if you didn't like mentholated cigarettes, is different vaped and can mimic the effect of throat hit too.

You've done the hard thing already taking the decision to stop smoking, you might experience some frustrations til you find what suits you, but stick with it!

All the best!

 

[Jebbn]

You are going to have to make a few adjustments in your expectation.
Vaping is not anything's like smoking. About all you can replicate is the draw, the nic hit and the keeping your hands busy.
You can't replicate the burning tobacco and the taste of a dry plant on fire with vaping.
I have never been able to exactly replicate a tobacco throat hit with vaping. I have experienced harsher throat hits while vaping though.
I vape unflavored vg, nic and distilled water, it's the least sweet tasting juice I could come up with. Some times the taste or smell reminds me of a freshly opened pack of pall mall filters.
Any off the tobacco flavored juice I tried tasted pretty yuck.

 

[wessberg]

Hi and welcome,
IMO, get off the cigarettes first...worry about the almost harmless nicotine later.
Where are you located?
What equipment are you using? Battery device/topper/tank?

Thanks for your reply. I've been off the cigarettes for two weeks. I'm located in Denmark. The hardware is the Endura T18EP (Endura T18 Vape Pen - Innokin).

Hi and welcome!

Quite frankly at this stage I wouldn't be worried overmuch about nicotine intake ( within reason ) as this is something you can reduce later once you are well away from cigarettes.

If I were you I'd be looking at a 50/50 PG/VG mix at at least 12 strength and possibly 16 to begin with. In fact I'd be looking at making my own unflavoured juice - which is actually simpler than you might think. Menthol, even if you didn't like mentholated cigarettes, is different vaped and can mimic the effect of throat hit too.

Thanks for your response. Yeah, with 12mg nico, the throat hit is much better. I'm just really wanting to see if it is possible to - slowly - move away from the nicotine, but keep the sensation of smoking. That is, a comparable throat hit.

Great idea about the Menthol. You're right, I'm absolutely not a fan of Menthol, but maybe it will get some hit back.

You are going to have to make a few adjustments in your expectation.
Vaping is not anything's like smoking. About all you can replicate is the draw, the nic hit and the keeping your hands busy.
You can't replicate the burning tobacco and the taste of a dry plant on fire with vaping.
I have never been able to exactly replicate a tobacco throat hit with vaping. I have experienced harsher throat hits while vaping though.
I vape unflavored vg, nic and distilled water, it's the least sweet tasting juice I could come up with. Some times the taste or smell reminds me of a freshly opened pack of pall mall filters.
Any off the tobacco flavored juice I tried tasted pretty yuck.

That's unfortunate. But it sounds to me like you are looking for the same things that I am. But are you saying that you don't put any PG in whatsoever? It's all VG? I was under the impression that it would always taste sweet. I mean, when I tried the 50/50 nico base without any added flavor to it, it tasted basically the same as *with* the flavor. It had the same sweet and wet taste to it.

 

[Izan]

You can try Premium Cuban Tobacco E-Liquids | Real Natural Extracts, Authentic Flavours
Or
CdD TOBACCO AROMA No.13
I started on a non sweet tobacco, Joyetech TOB.
I found I didn't like an "ashy" type of tobacco and some of the light/bright tobaccos taste of hay/cut grass, I don't like those either.
I did not enjoy aromatic blends, but found I do enjoy a cuban/cigar type base while finding a pipe base almost un-vapable.
A bit of leather and cedar and some coffee undertones topped with a bit of vanillia and just a hint of dark chocolate is what tastes like "smoking" to me.
Ymmv.

The T18 unit is great, however the battery is not power adjustable and IMO, over powers the coils of the Prism tank. I would suggest a battery device that permits you to adjust the power/watts delivered to give you just a bit more control of the vape experience. You can use the same tank.

HTH
I

 

[Vapedog]

Love, love, love, love the throat hit. Innokin Plex tank and Plex coils designed for increased throat hit, and yes it delivers. Now add to that diy that delivers it as well. Flavour art Citrus mix, and Flavour West Black licorice, not both together of course, both mixed at a simple 5% with 5% Flavour Art Marshmallow. 3mg nic and you have throat hit happiness. Easy as 1, 2, 3.

 

[Katya]

Hello Wessberg and welcome to ECF. First of all, the shop sold you an old version of the Endura T18EP--they are probably trying to get rid of the old stock. I strongly suggest you go back to that place and ask if you could exchange it for the Endura T18 version II, which comes with 3 wattage settings: 10.5w indicated by the left LED, 12w by the middle and 13.5w by the right LED--that will help you adjust the power of your vape and thus throat hit.

Endura T18 II Starter Kit by Innokin

There's no eliquid on this planet that tastes anything like a cigarette smoke. The sooner you come to terms with this fact, the happier you'll be. We have all chased that flavor and failed. There are decent substitutes, but they all taste, more or less, like raw tobacco--like a freshly opened pack of cigs smells. Do you have a vape shop nearby that has a juice sampling bar? That would be the best way to find something vapeable. I discovered early on that menthol/minty eliquids were what I needed even though I was never a menthol smoker--and menthol increases throat hit. Try that. Or try something completely different--fruit, perhaps? And don't worry about PG/VG ratios; you don't want 100% PG eliquids. I prefer 70/30 or 60/40 PG/VG--best of both worlds. And to my taste buds, unflavored eliquids actually taste like ultralight cigarettes.

Good luck in your search.

 

[Jebbn]

That's unfortunate. But it sounds to me like you are looking for the same things that I am. But are you saying that you don't put any PG in whatsoever? It's all VG? I was under the impression that it would always taste sweet. I mean, when I tried the 50/50 nico base without any added flavor to it, it tasted basically the same as *with* the flavor. It had the same sweet and wet taste to it.

At the start I was trying to replicate my tobacco experience with vaping.
I started with an innokin t22. Perfect draw for me at the time.
I don't vape like that now, the cigarette draw stopped being important to me.
Vg is sweet but not like flavoured juice.
I don't get along with pg. Even at 10% I get quite red in the face and painful sinuses.
As I moved away from tobacco it has become less important to replicate any aspect of the experience of smoking it.

 

[Coyote628]

The only thing that tastes like a burning cigarette is a burning cigarette. Like the others said, the quicker you come to terms with that, the happier you will be. Once you get used to vaping, throat hit feels different and actually becomes secondary to just getting the nicotine to stop craving cigs. As far as flavors are concerned, tobacco isnt one of my favorites. In fact, i decided from the beginning that i would avoid that flavor just to not be reminded of what i was giving up. For me, its dessert and bakery flavors that gets it. And some fruit flavors thrown in occasionally to keep things interesting. Tobacco flavors taste like drawing on an unlit cigarette or even chewing tobacco but thats about as close as youll get. Cannoli flavored vape, now that is just nice all around.

 

[DeloresRose]

I’ve been vaping 5.5 years and diy 5 years, and I have never heard of 100% pg juice. I also agree that no juice or device is going to replicate smoking, and that getting enough nic is important to keeping off the cigarettes. Nic will also give some of the TH you’re looking for.

Vg tastes different than pg, but I have not found it to mute flavors or taste sweet. It tastes less bitter, and gives a bit of TH, but both impact the flavors in their own way.

No juice is going to taste like a real, burning cigarette. I mean, put anything next to a dirty ashtray - everything will smell sweeter by comparison, right?

Here’s another thing, there’s a plethora of commercial juice out there, and 99% of it is going to taste terrible to you. Others will love ones you think are disgusting. Taste varies that much. But also most of them are really sweet. You might have to try several to find one that suits, and you may have to be more open minded about your base, nic level, and flavors.

And lastly, much of vaping is subjective. Don’t take everything you hear or read as gospel. You’ll see a lot of people saying something and believe it must be true - like a juice that’s popular, a mod that everyone loves- but you may find, as I and others often do, that you absolutely hate it.

Aside from some established safety information, this is YOUR journey, and things that work for others are not in fact going to work for you. We’re here to guide, not dictate.

 

[somdcomputerguy]

Welcome to ECF, wessberg.

 

[dreamvaper]

but it tasted nothing like analogs

Why are you looking for something that taste like analogs? Maybe with an ashtray aftertaste?
vape is so much better and you can check different flavours. If you don't like sweet ones, there are different options for that not just tobacco ones. And if you are switching from cigs to vape, looking for 0 nic from start is not the best option, esp. if you're looking for max throw hit.
check:
https://www.ecigarettedirect.co.uk/ashtray-blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Stronger-Hit-Tips.jpg

 

[Shadav]

I can't help with suggesting tobacco flavors, I am not a fan... there are some that are close in taste to cigarettes but nothing will ever taste like a burning cig, I know when I started out njoy kings were very similar to marlboro reds...there's a sampoerna vape that is spot on from deking. But nothing will ever truly taste exact but there are some that are close....
but to get a harsher throat hit not only should you up the pg % but a higher nic level will also help give more of a throat hit, as well as help with cravings because when switching from smoking you are also detoxing from all the other additives in cigarettes

usually for new vapors I'd really suggest starting with 18mg to 24mg or higher depending on how much you smoked...
once you get your cigarette cravings under control then you can work on lowering your nicotine levels.

as for something not sweet....there are plenty of other types of vapes that aren't so sweet, like coffee flavors, nuts, clove, alcohol, ect.

 

[Baditude]

I'm looking for something that tastes and more importantly feels as close to analogs as possible while keeping nicotine levels at a mimimum. Is it even possible? They say it is, but I keep getting disappointed. Should I go 100% PG? I'm looking for a dry taste.

The hardware is a secondary concern, but right now I'm focusing my energy on finding the right juice.

First off, I'll agree with the others here. Start out with a higher nic concentration, get off of the smokes, and THEN consider dropping your nic concentration. Your primary goal should be to wean yourself off of the cigarettes first, then consider dropping your nic level should you wish. You will not be successful if your nic concentration is inadequate at the beginning. Baby steps; don't try to run before you learn to crawl and walk first.

Second, you won't find an e-liquid that "tastes" like a tobacco cigarette. E-liquid flavors are made from food flavoring concentrates; what food tastes like a burning tobacco cigarette and smoke?

You'll have more success if you avoid "tobacco" flavors and use a fruit, candy, coffee, or bakery flavor. There are some NET (naturally extracted tobacco) flavors that taste similar to an analog, but they will not taste exactly like a cigarette either.

I used to work in a vape shop, and to better serve and advise my customers, I sampled all of our tobacco flavors. IMHO, they ALL tasted like crap. Most customers agreed, and went with a fruit, candy, coffee, or desert flavor.

For e-liquid, the typical nicotine recommendations are generally determined by how much you smoked, and are as follows:

1/2 pack per day or less = 6 mg nicotine
1 ppd = 12 mg
1 1/2 ppd = 18 mg
2 ppd = 24 mg
​

Why You Don't Need an E-Liquid that Tastes Like Cigarettes

Smoking vs Vaping Differences

Good Starter Setups for a Beginner Vaper

 

[wessberg]

Thanks for all of your replies. I'm hearing from many of you that it is key to accept that I'm just not going to find something that taste like smoking a cigarette. It's liberating to finally hear someone say it. That's my experience, but I kept hearing that I just needed to try this or that juice, mod, or whatever. So thanks for that.

I'm confident that I will be satisfied when I find something that isn't sweet tasting and gives an equivalent or at least comparable throat hit.

Some of you are suggesting >=12MG nico. And that is very understandable, given that it helps tremendously with the throat hit. But I would like to stay at 6MG tops for a while if possible.

I've been completely off the analogs for some weeks now, and I'm absolutely confident that I will continue to be.

My primary takeaway from your feedback so far is that I should stop chasing the perfect tobacco flavored juice and try something else. Such as Menthol or Citrus.

First of all, the shop sold you an old version of the Endura T18EP--they are probably trying to get rid of the old stock. I strongly suggest you go back to that place and ask if you could exchange it for the Endura T18 version II, which comes with 3 wattage settings: 10.5w indicated by the left LED, 12w by the middle and 13.5w by the right LED--that will help you adjust the power of your vape and thus throat hit.

[...]
Do you have a vape shop nearby that has a juice sampling bar?

Yeah, the shop told me upfront that it was an older model, but the shop owner felt that it was superior to the newer models. I knew nothing, but I told him that I didn't care for adjustable voltage and all that stuff, I just wanted something simple that "just worked". So I guess he went with that.

And yes, Ive been to a place with a sampling bar. They had 16 tobscco flavors and an endless ocean of fruity ones. I just went straight to the tobacco ones hoping for something dry, but to be honest, they all tasted the same - sweet base with some aroma added to it. Maybe I should go back.

Why are you looking for something that taste like analogs? Maybe with an ashtray aftertaste?

[...]

https://www.ecigarettedirect.co.uk/ashtray-blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Stronger-Hit-Tips.jpg

I guess its different from person to person, but coming from a life of smoking cigarettes for years (like many of us, I presume), then yes, at least to me that is what I'm used to and thus what I'm looking for. I get from your feedback that I should manage my expectations here, so I will. Thanks a lot for that awesome infographic!

as for something not sweet....there are plenty of other types of vapes that aren't so sweet, like coffee flavors, nuts, clove, alcohol, ect.

Thanks for your input. So far, my intuition is that the sweetness isn't really that correlated with the flavors/aromas I've tested, but rather coming from the PG/VG base. I mean, trying without adding flavor at all is still quite sweet tasting to me. Like, a lot!

 

[charlie1465]

Hi @wessberg I'll try and help...when I gave up first I was exactly the same I wanted something to taste and feel like smoking. I started with 18mg/ml nicotine eliquid and that does give you a throat hit so you're going to have to lift your nic levels IMO.

The search for a tobacco flavour was the most difficult thing though until I eventually found a liquid by Halo called Torque 56 which, even though it didn't exactly taste like tobacco it sought of did.....it was dry and aftertaste was good etc. Halo liquids are a good place to start looking for what you need. I think other guys in this thread have mentioned nets which are real extractions from tobacco which are then used as flavours.

This is a french wholesale site which sells Halo and others....

Halo - Grossiste Halo - Greenvillage.fr

Best of luck to you and keep going you'll stay alive longer

 

[wessberg]

Hi @wessberg
The search for a tobacco flavour was the most difficult thing though until I eventually found a liquid by Halo called Torque 56 which, even though it didn't exactly taste like tobacco it sought of did.....it was dry and aftertaste was good etc. Halo liquids are a good place to start looking for what you need. I think other guys in this thread have mentioned nets which are real extractions from tobacco which are then used as flavours.

This is a french wholesale site which sells Halo and others....

Halo - Grossiste Halo - Greenvillage.fr

Best of luck to you and keep going you'll stay alive longer

Thanks so much! I'll check it out!

 

[Baditude]

So far, my intuition is that the sweetness isn't really that correlated with the flavors/aromas I've tested, but rather coming from the PG/VG base. I mean, trying without adding flavor at all is still quite sweet tasting to me. Like, a lot!

I personally believe the sweetness that you refer to depends more on the flavors and flavor recipes used than on the amount of Vg in the liquid. It's true, Vg is sweeter than Pg; its used as a sweetner in many foods. However, a high Pg ratio can result in harshness.

Some e-liquid flavors are sweet. Some are sour. My daughter vapes a Key Lime Pie flavor that is slightly sour.

 

[charlie1465]

Thanks so much! I'll check it out!

To be honest whenever I used a shop the liquids were not great and I very quickly turned to online for all my supplies. Now I DIY so i choose exactly what I vape

Definitely try the torque 56 or Turkish...it worked for me and I vaped it for a long time before I realised that fruits and bakeries were ok too...that happened very gradually though.

Good luck.