Powerizers in cold weather

[exodus454]

So I'm absolutely in love with my new buzz! Week one has been fantastic so far.


I was at a bar last night standing outside for a half hour or so and all of a sudden my buzz stopped working! I knew it couldn't be dead already since the batteries only came off the charger 2 hours earlier. It was like 35* out and my buzz was in and out of the outer pocket on my jacket. I tried bumping the voltage down and it still wouldn't fire. Red light was on, but both lights went on when trying it.


I took the batteries out, put them in my inside jacket pocket for 10 mins and it was back in action! That set of batteries lasted me from 7 pm yesterday up until 20 mins ago so they were definitely charged..


Anyone else have cold weather problems? None of my other pvs have had cold weather issues, and another friend was there with an equally cold ego that kept going. I can understand battery performance dropping off with low temps, but 35* seems a little warm for that to start happening..


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[moorea]

I'm in north west montana, it gets cold here and I haven't had any issues. Maybe the veneer on my woody insulates it more!

 

[BuzzKill]

Most likely it was a coincident and they were not making contact OR the bottom switch got turned slightly !

 

[moorea]

I've never looked forward to our coldest week of the year, but I am this year. When we hit that week of negative thirty something this year (it happens every year), I am bundling up and going outside with my BP & Powerizers and putting the cold weather questions to rest!

 

[Bovinia]

I haven't had my BP out in the cold much but wanted to jump in here and let Exodus know it's happened to me with the OBuzz and the grey jacket ultrafires.

Last winter if I left my Buzz in the car while I went in to a store, it would act like the batts were dead until I got it warmed up. It never seemed to effect the batteries in a bad way and after a few minutes of warming it in my hands it would work like normal again. Now I just keep my BP in my jacket pocket or purse instead of letting it sit in the cold.

 

[exodus454]

Just happened again at starbucks! Standing outside with the smokers when its 27* out and it stopped firing! I was only out there for like 15 mins too.

This time it was with my other set of powerizers.. Its not the battery cap either, it was snug tye whole time.

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[Ruppy]

Hmmmm have to do some digging on the impact of cold on Li-Ion batts I have never had a problem personally and Ive had mine out in 10 deg for quite a bit. Usually in my coat though so not sure how cold its really getting.

 

[Ruppy]

Heres a few random google results

Cold temperatures will lower the discharge capacity of Lithium Ion laptop batteries (Co based), about 20% at -10C, when discharged at C/5 (i.e. normal) [1]. If the discharge rate is high (C vs C/5) then the low temperature capacity performance seriously collapses - by 50% and more - but only for the duration of the cold temperature operation. The reason for this is the temperature sensitivity of the electrolyte conductivity. Cold temperature discharge does not notably degrade the long term, cycle lifetime of the battery.

the cold temperature slows the chemical reaction in the battery which creates the electric charge, so yes, cold temps do affect the life time of the charge.

Cold temperatures prevent common Li-
Ion batteries from releasing their charge, making the powered device unusable until the
battery is warmed. Li-Ion batteries also tend to fail completely when temperatures reach -
22°F (-30°C), which are common in frozen storage areas

My freezer at work runs at -20 deg F Ill leave my BP in there for a bit tomorrow and see what happens

 

[BuzzKill]

Wow this is weird !! not at all sure what is going on here , next time loosen then tighten the bottom cap and see if that changes it ??? Also does the RED led go OUT ?

 

[exodus454]

Wow this is weird !! not at all sure what is going on here , next time loosen then tighten the bottom cap and see if that changes it ??? Also does the RED led go OUT ?

Nope, red led always stays on. Then when you go to use it both come on and goes back to just red when you let go of the button.

Tonight when it happened i was able to bump the voltage down from yellowish to the green and it was firing again for a few minutes.. Then as (im guessing) it kept getting cooler it eventually started giving me blue and red even at the lowest voltage setting.

The red light always stays on though.

Behaves exactly like battery voltage slowly drops off the colder they get.

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[BuzzKill]

Nope, red led always stays on. Then when you go to use it both come on and goes back to just red when you let go of the button.

Tonight when it happened i was able to bump the voltage down from yellowish to the green and it was firing again for a few minutes.. Then as (im guessing) it kept getting cooler it eventually started giving me blue and red even at the lowest voltage setting.

The red light always stays on though.

Behaves exactly like battery voltage slowly drops off the colder they get.

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are you using a LR atty ?

 

[exodus454]

are you using a LR atty ?

2ohm ikenvape carto, nothing crazy.

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[Ruppy]

I can confirm that if I take my batts out (AW 16340) and put them in -20deg F for 10 minutes, they WILL NOT work until they warm up for a minute or two. I realize thats a bit extreme for the temp. Im not sure where the actual bottom end is as far as causing issues.

I will say when I take my BP in the freezer It works fine if I leave it in my coat.

 

[exodus454]

I can confirm that if I take my batts out (AW 16340) and put them in -20deg F for 10 minutes, they WILL NOT work until they warm up for a minute or two. I realize thats a bit extreme for the temp. Im not sure where the actual bottom end is as far as causing issues.

I will say when I take my BP in the freezer It works fine if I leave it in my coat.

I'd absolutely expect that in that kind of cold any battery would stop providing power! But thats also 55* colder than where I'm seeing the issues.

I've had my epower out in 0* weather before without issue. Its running trustfire 18650s.

Just to clarify, this isn't a complaint thread or anything, just a strange observation that would be nice to get to the bottom of. There are gunna be times this winter where I need it to work when its cold (ie skiing and plowing). I dont really consider 30* cold either.. If it were 20* or colder this wouldn't be an issue really.

From what I've read these powerizers vastly outperform other batteries in terms of run time, so maybe this is the down side to them?

I'm gunna go throw my batteries in the fridge for 20 mins and throw a voltmeter on them.

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[markfm]

The powerizer rcr123a spec curve for 0C looks like it should still be running pretty well, until it is significantly discharged.

When you drop down further, even though nominal min temp for discharge is -20C, the voltage may trip as low on the bp.

The joys of batteries...

 

[exodus454]

So I just did some research. Started with fresh batteries and put them in the fridge, and then the freezer while testing them along the way.

Batteries pretest -
both cells 4.19v @ 74.5*
buzz fires at 5.6v

Fridge temp - 35*

20 mins -
Both cells 4.19v @ 38*
Buzz fires at 5.6v, will drive carto

30 mins -
Both cells 4.19v @ 36.5*
Buzz still fires at 5.6v, will drive carto

45 mins -
35* - same results

Into the freezer @ -15*, 30 mins -
Both cells 4.19v @ -10*F
Buzz still fires at 5.6v! Will still drive carto.

This leads me to believe the problem might be in the buzz itself.. I threw the batteries that were in the freezer in the buzz and have been vaping them from negative temps without issue.

All tests were done with an infared temp gun and voltage measured with a digital multimeter. I don't have the equipment to test voltage under load, so for each test I screwed on a 2ohm carto and set the buzz to max (5.6v) and looked for both red and blue lights to come on while firing.. Which never happened.

Next test is to throw the whole buzz (minus batteries) in the cold and see if that replicates it.. Although it could be an issue that only manifests itself with continued use at low temps.

Gotta say though, its pretty inpressive to see that the batteries still perform even at -10*F..

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[markfm]

Personally, I avoid condensation with electronics. Pv should be fine in normal use, not sure I would keep putting it in a freezer then taking it out and running it.

 

[Ruppy]

So I just did some research. Started with fresh batteries and put them in the fridge, and then the freezer while testing them along the way.

Batteries pretest -
both cells 4.19v @ 74.5*
buzz fires at 5.6v

Fridge temp - 35*

20 mins -
Both cells 4.19v @ 38*
Buzz fires at 5.6v, will drive carto

30 mins -
Both cells 4.19v @ 36.5*
Buzz still fires at 5.6v, will drive carto

45 mins -
35* - same results

Into the freezer @ -15*, 30 mins -
Both cells 4.19v @ -10*F
Buzz still fires at 5.6v! Will still drive carto.

This leads me to believe the problem might be in the buzz itself.. I threw the batteries that were in the freezer in the buzz and have been vaping them from negative temps without issue.

All tests were done with an infared temp gun and voltage measured with a digital multimeter. I don't have the equipment to test voltage under load, so for each test I screwed on a 2ohm carto and set the buzz to max (5.6v) and looked for both red and blue lights to come on while firing.. Which never happened.

Next test is to throw the whole buzz (minus batteries) in the cold and see if that replicates it.. Although it could be an issue that only manifests itself with continued use at low temps.

Gotta say though, its pretty inpressive to see that the batteries still perform even at -10*F..

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Good test.

I cant come up with a reason how it could be the buzz though. From a electronics standpoint that dosent compute. Its should fire regardless of temp as long as the batts fire.

The only way I could see that being different is if there was something in the button itself that was freezing and not allowing it to fire. In the temps described in your initial pont of issue I dont think thats likely.

I was not surprised my batts did not fire as the point of failure listed for Li-Ion batts by the manufacturer is close to the -20 deg I subjected them to.

Im anxious to hear how your test with the entire buzz goes.

 

[Ruppy]

Personally, I avoid condensation with electronics. Pv should be fine in normal use, not sure I would keep putting it in a freezer then taking it out and running it.

Overall it shouldnt damage the device. For those of us that live in cold locations its not much different than coming in and out during the winter.

 

[markfm]

Cny is a cold and snow location Depends on humidity in the room. Multiple transitions from very cold to warm, then energize, are stressy, depends on if there is any stabilization