Pre-Steeped Juice (PSJ)

[Mr.Mann]

So, I was wondering...if everyone is steeping their juices, and most of these vendors have signature and most popular flavors...then why not have Pre-Steeped Juices (PSJ)? It seems like a no brainer to me. Either buy it fresh at regular price, or maybe add a couple bucks to a 30ml bottle per month? After all the comparisons to wine and such (which is very analogous), it would appear that this would make dollars/sense (cents) and happy customers! I personally would love to be able to purchase PSJ (pre-steeped juice) and vape upon arrival?

How about you?





BWB RY4 30ml bottle,
14ml left... It hurts =(

 

[Stricklin]

Most of the 'popular' vendors seem to struggle just to keep up with demand.

In our WE WANT IT NOW world these days, I would say the majority of folks who got the option of now or wait, would say go ahead and ship it now.

Unless your fairly close to the dealer, you are going to get a few days steep time in the mail.

Stricklin

 

[lasttango]

then why not have Pre-Steeped Juices (PSJ)?

Those vendors that can afford it and have time do have PSJ...
If a mom and pop vendor with 0-2 employees was mailing 75-100 packages of juice every other day...
...and they had... 20-50 flavors.. etc...
Different strengths...
Different PG/VG ratios

This just isn't a realistic scenario for vendors that live month by month with no employees... or few... especially our vendors that also spend a lot of time making their own absolutes and tobacco juices...

Now... of course... one solution would be for a buyer to buy a lot of juice... and let some steep... I don' because my tastes change and money is always too tight to make investments etc...

 

[Mr.Mann]

I am more of a stove top (not the box) type guy as opposed to the microwave. I guess I understand, no, I really understand what you are talking about. However, there is a huge niche market for those that are in the know, and for those that are willing to pay extra. It does make the most sense to consider the keeping up with demand aspect. I don't think it would have to be a lot of bottles steeping, but I think the option would set some vendors apart. For me, I like options and more custom products. For instance, I am vaping Farsi Una Ragazza (45% Amaretto, 35% Pomegranate, 20%White wine) from Juicyvapors create your own. Options options options.

 

[Mr.Mann]

Those vendors that can afford it and have time do have PSJ...
If a mom and pop vendor with 0-2 employees was mailing 75-100 packages of juice every other day...
...and they had... 20-50 flavors.. etc...
Different strengths...
Different PG/VG ratios

This just isn't a realistic scenario for vendors that live month by month with no employees... or few... especially our vendors that also spend a lot of time making their own absolutes and tobacco juices...

When you say that, "
Those vendors that can afford it and have time do have PSJ..." are you referring to the fact that they have such an abundance of juice that they have no choice but to let it steep? Or, are you saying that they market it as such? I never considered the idea that it could be seen more as a marketing gimmick just to juice (no pun) more money out of customers.

 

[lasttango]

No gimmick...

I think you do need to appreciate all that a small one man or two man vendor has to do...
It's not simply squirting flavorings into nic bases and sending them off into the mail...
Some folks do that... but their juices suck... steeped or unsteeped.

People complain when their vendor runs out of product...
They all want to chip in with business advice or assume it could be a gimmick...
I say... have a few conversations with a few different vendors and you'll soon discover what it's like to be in their world...

I have a friend who is a very popular vendor...
even with one employee...
he'll work 10-18 hours a day just keeping up with demand...

Besides making juice...
he has to make flavors... the tobacco flavors are particularity labor intensive.
He has to order flavorings and supplies from multiple vendors... and manage their arrivals...

Why not order all flavorings and supplies from one vendor?
...because his juice would suck... what makes it unique is that flavorings are from all over the place or hand made...

A lot of time is spent managing the orders and shipping as well...

Taxes can be insane in certain states...

and why not hire more people?
...because it's not equitable...

He'd lose money

There is a big difference between what totally wicked or janty can do versus what backwoods brew or want2vape can do...

 

[Mr.Mann]

I understand and appreciate all that small businesses have to do (considering I have a small business myself). Not saying I know or can equate mine with theirs. I was just thinking about options. I do appreciate anything hand crafted (as I do myself) and know first hand what is like to struggle with demand. As a matter of fact, I am essentially on back order right now

Thanks for taking time to respond to my idea.

Also, the "gimmick" reference I made was about someone selling psj when it is really about the fact that they had so much unsold.

p.s. "It's not simply squirting flavorings into nic bases and sending them off into the mail..." This may be news to some, but not me.

 

[lasttango]

p.s. "It's not simply squirting flavorings into nic bases and sending them off into the mail..." This may be news to some, but not me.

So many variables ;-) especially with tobaccos...

ask donnely from W2V or Don from BWB or Todd from Vaperite or jon from prime vaping... all nice fellas... all usually willing to give the consumers some education about what they do...

they are usually more willing to discuss how they make their tobacco flavorings... as they are proud of them...

 

[Mr.Mann]

Yeah, I talk to every vendor that I purchase from and they are usually really forthcoming people. Not to belabor this, but irrespective of all the variables, and after the hard work is done...the juice goes into the bottle. No? I mean, I am not trying to say they need to steep underground or cryovaced but how hard would it really be to let a few bottles sit? I am now totally over the idea as I see that whether or not I buy it steeped or not, I must embark on the same mundane process of letting it sit that would be the same for me as it would be for them. Like I wrote earlier, I completely understand your sentiment with my profession and consumers of it really having no idea as to the intricacies of the process.

The last time I talked to Don he gave me some insight into his process. Though, I don't want to speak on what he said (out of fear that it could cause him unwanted requests) I will continue with what I have been doing (which is the same as your advice) and direct these kind of considerations to vendors.

p.s. I can tell you are a passionate man, I would be interested to know more about which tobacco flavors you like and why. Have you any threads with such info?

If not, then thanks for going back and forth with me.



BWB#1

 

[lasttango]

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...scussion/206373-vapenstein-addo-scientia.html

I like this one...

To be honest, I don't necessarily love the highest-end tobaccos... those high enders tend to be fresh leaf steeped... From time to time I really enjoy some of Vapenstein's blends... the new highbrow tobaccos... PV's and vaperite's... Still need to try this: Extracts
But it's expensive...

I vape a lot... and when you chain-vape or power-vape... it's tough to do so with strong flavored liquids... I require liquids that are a little less potent and made with really high quality bases.



I like Backwoods Brew's, puresmoker's and Bluemist's...
Don's absolute is very good... and I am used to it. I like it. He makes 4 or 5+ different tobacco bases. I like the one he uses in his RY4 best.

Bluemist's tobacco absolute is similar to BWB IMO... just a little less bite. I believe that Bluemist uses the seedman's recipe... and that is a quality tobacco absolute. They do it well.

Puresmoker's bite could rip the shingles off your house... but I like it. Seriously, the first few times I had it, it made my insides curl ;-) but I was soon in love with it. It's worth the extra coin.
I am a fan of Puresmoker's Silver leaf menthol

I am not a fan of steeped fresh leaf juices... The exception being some of high brow's and vapenstein's blends..

I also like some of the chemical or lab variants... like Janty, TW's... Halo's... nHaler's octane...

Mostly, I like absolute's...

My juice collection:
Just the flavors I have close to me...

BWB - many flavors
Puresmoker - Silverleaf Menthol (150mls)
***Bluemist's Smooth (350mls of it!!!) - My current #1
Bluemist's Caramel Tobacco
Janty Elixir RY4 and Koreanesque
HighBrow - Tobacco and Limoncello
AVE - Irish Cream and Boba's
Moondrop - Smith Barn Sticks

This is what I am vaping now.

I have many more juices in storage that I'll rotate in like some Primevaping, Halo, nHaler, Vaperite etc... Copper creek is also very good... vaporcast, zombie, dekangs, etc

 

[Mr.Mann]

See, that is why I wanted to move on. I just emailed Dr.Vapenstein last night and have been emailing back and forth. That was in fact a very informative reply. Some of those juices are in cue and other have yet to bet tried. I knew after reading your posts that you were someone who has an opinion that I would consider when buying. Subjectivity aside, the real point of my interest in your flavors was to see what you held in high regard! I am pleased to know. Unfortunately, with BWB RY4 gone I am looking to broaden my horizons. One, if not the only good thing about the dearly departed RY4.

 

[Dj Xy]

I would recommend The Vapor Rooms RY4, I find it similar to BWB RY4.
Its not exactly the same but comes in a close second as one of my favorite RY4's, followed by TVR's Gingers Ry4. But these are also made to order, and not presteeped

 

[lasttango]

In terms of taste... I always felt nHaler's octane RYNOT was similar to BWB... some don't agree with my assessment - though to me they were very similar - minus the vanilla tones.

 

[Shiryo]

Despite being a very broke college student. I too would pay around 2.5-5% extra, for every month of steeping, just for a PSJ liquid from my favorite vendor. It can be quite a pain to have to steep your juices. I like my juices to be very rich, creamy and flavorful (and very sweet, for those that apply).

I utterly dislike dripping out of the box, OoTB liquid and it's fresh, giving me a vape experience that is a hundred leagues away from the experience that you know it is capable of. It's borderline wasting the liquid in that fresh-form.

 

[McAldo]

Farsi Una Ragazza (45% Amaretto, 35% Pomegranate, 20%White wine) from Juicyvapors create your own.

LOL
That's an interesting name

 

[TamJeff]

The issue for me is when they have samples that are pre-steeped and you think that's what you are getting when you go to order the full sized version based on the sample. When you get it, you may waste half of it vaping it in a less than ideal condition. At least the samples should have a born on date if they are premade so that you know what to expect and 'roughly' when, if a juice seems to be off.

I order ahead of time for most, but it would be nice to know how much is too far ahead of time or not enough.

The idea of juice being fresh made is a misnomer, being that the vendors are most likely buying ingredients that have variable shelf lives. Is it freshly made with "fresh" ingredients, or just ingredients that are new to the vendor. Just because these ingredients have come together at the time you put in your order, does not mean they were fresh.

As far as 'steeping', I don't feel the term is completely accurate. I think that a lot of the time, it's not so much the ingredients flavors are melding together as much as it may be just unfavorable solvents evaporating from the mix, or at least in part. I am vaping a flavor right now that does not become pleasant until it becomes darker AND thicker. Becoming more viscous would depict that a good deal of the actual solvent has gassed off thru evaporation, or even from being heated in a cartomizer.

 

[Mr.Mann]

I am happy I got out of bed. I think I vaped too much too late. Anyhow, I believe you are bringing up a good point here. I can't think of an analogy to fit his whole scenario exactly, but I have worked a great deal in the restaurant industry and many comparisons could be made with e liquid. I can't think of them now, but I know I would be turned off if a waiter brought a steak to my table (even though I no longer eat mammals) and suggested to me to let the meat rest.

Waiter: "Sir, I would be remiss not to mention that steak is better and far more juicy after several moments of resting."

Me: "Uh, how about you bring me my food when it is the best time to eat it!"



Late night ramblings



p.s. Letting "unfavorable solvents evaporating from the mix" is actually what I tend to feel I am doing with most e-juices I don't like out of the box. Maybe lasttango can shed some light.

 

[Mr.Mann]

"As far as 'steeping', I don't feel the term is completely accurate. I think that a lot of the time, it's not so much the ingredients flavors are melding together as much as it may be just unfavorable solvents evaporating from the mix, or at least in part. I am vaping a flavor right now that does not become pleasant until it becomes darker AND thicker. Becoming more viscous would depict that a good deal of the actual solvent has gassed off thru evaporation, or even from being heated in a cartomizer."


I guess the more accurate term would be "aging." Thanks