Predicate Product Exists: Altria In Negotiations To Acquire

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Jman8

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The Boehner letter makes this all moot, IF he follows through. My gut says he will. There are many now in the majority in both Houses, that prefer not to regulate and some of them smoke and a few even vape, including Boehner on occasions.

I should note that I'm not in favor of a grandfather date as aikanae and others have said. Freezing tech at any date is just plain stupid. That said, I'd take the 2014/15/16/17 date over the 2007 date :)

Moving the grandfather date would be hugely significant, but agree that it is not ideal. If we are looking for the ideal with so much ANTZ rhetoric ingrained in the public (not to mention many vapers), then I think we will be coming up with heavy restrictions instead.

I would like to see Boehner et. al move the date to something that is 2014 or later, plus address cost of submitting market applications, plus just consider eCigs as exempt from what Congress intended with FSPTCA. All that would be very welcomed, even while it is compromising and thus could be criticized.

Market applications coming down in cost ought to be doable. Either have BV/BT support that cost if they aren't willing to fight against it, or make it so all grant money that these universities keep begging for goes toward studying the umpteen dozen questions that FDA deems necessary for every single application. I'd love if Pubs were able to turn that around on liberal universities and make them have to do the studying while the product is on the market in a trial period. I dunno, but if we are going to do some dreaming, I'd go with this which I don't think is entirely farfetched. Having small business front application costs in the hundreds of thousands of dollars would strike me as insane for anyone that claims to be pro-small business.
 

Kent C

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Moving the grandfather date would be hugely significant, but agree that it is not ideal. If we are looking for the ideal with so much ANTZ rhetoric ingrained in the public (not to mention many vapers), then I think we will be coming up with heavy restrictions instead.

I would like to see Boehner et. al move the date to something that is 2014 or later, plus address cost of submitting market applications, plus just consider eCigs as exempt from what Congress intended with FSPTCA. All that would be very welcomed, even while it is compromising and thus could be criticized.

Market applications coming down in cost ought to be doable. Either have BV/BT support that cost if they aren't willing to fight against it, or make it so all grant money that these universities keep begging for goes toward studying the umpteen dozen questions that FDA deems necessary for every single application. I'd love if Pubs were able to turn that around on liberal universities and make them have to do the studying while the product is on the market in a trial period. I dunno, but if we are going to do some dreaming, I'd go with this which I don't think is entirely farfetched. Having small business front application costs in the hundreds of thousands of dollars would strike me as insane for anyone that claims to be pro-small business.

Sometimes gov't actions have a reverse effect. Like prohibition, but it took a while. More recently the 'Kelo case' where the town of New London wanted to take some old neighborhood homes, and have a developer construct high end condos and they skirted the 5th amendment 'takings clause' by saying it would generate more revenue for the city. (takings has to be for 'public use' (not just 'public interest') and be justly compensated). This was gov't taking property for private use - the only 'public interest' was the additional revenue projected. The Supreme Court upheld the 'taking' 5-4 with Justice Souter being the 'deciding vote'. The property sits today, undeveloped, but the neighborhood was bulldozed.

The backlash aftermath was stark and may have been better than a defeat.

The Institute for Justice

"Kelo educated the public about eminent domain abuse, and polls consistently show that Americans are overwhelmingly opposed to Kelo and support efforts to change the law to better protect property rights.

•Citizen activists defeated at least 44 projects that sought to abuse eminent domain for private gain in the five-year period since Kelo.

•Forty-three states improved their laws in response to Kelo, more than half of those providing strong protection against eminent domain abuse.

•Nine state high courts restricted the use of eminent domain for private development since Kelo while only one (New York) has so far refused to do so.

•The New London project for which the property was taken in Kelo has been a complete failure and is now Exhibit A in what happens when governments engage in massive corporate welfare and abuse eminent domain. Although the project failed, Susette Kelo’s iconic little pink house has been moved to downtown New London and preserved. It still stands as a monument in honor of the families who fought for their rights and who inspired the nation to change its laws to better protect other property owners."

There's a good chance there would be a similar reaction if the 2007 grandfather date is upheld and deeming goes as the FDA has planned.

One comic note on Kelo, which if it was pulled off would have been the perfect ironic result of the stupidity of one Justice... (and could be applied to the others as well, who voted to apply the takings clause in this case. )

Lost Liberty Hotel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The Lost Liberty Hotel or Lost Liberty Inn was a proposed hotel to be built on the site of United States Supreme Court Associate Justice David Souter's properties in Weare, New Hampshire. The proposal was a reaction to the Supreme Court's Kelo v. New London (2005) decision in which Souter joined the majority ruling that the U.S. Constitution allows the use of eminent domain to condemn privately owned real property for use in private economic development projects."

I would view the deeming to also be a 'taking' because of the vendors who, as the deeming doc states, would have to 'exit the market'.
 

lintz69

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If I remember right I think Congress might have only passed ONE budget in the last 8 years. Since they can't even agree on important issues like money, why would anyone think they could or would even entertain any possible legislation on vaping? That is unless someone like Big Tobacco pays a lot of money and makes it very lucrative for them to do so.

I can't even remember the last time I saw any meaningful public demonstration.

The problem is the government FDA in particular has been fighting this for years. You can go to the CASSA website and read the history. There ARE states banning vaping. There ARE FDA talks next month scheduled. This isn't something new, but it is getting more serious. These are our rights they are trying to take from us. Read the post on ECCR where it says about the FDA meeting next month. You can register to watch it from the government website free. LOOK at how they view us. We need to see this coming and figure out how to stop it.
 

aikanae1

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I'm kinda done worrying about liberal states taking progressive (or fascist) measures with regards to vaping.

LOL! As if conservative states are much different? I don't think it's possible to get much redder and a measure that back handedly bans all flavors but tobacco has passed 2 committees in republican controlled legislature. Not a lot of difference.
 

Rickajho

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Hmmm...

It occurs to me: "Let's throw up AtlanticCigs.com in the WayBack machine and see what we get."

https://web.archive.org/web/20131001044710/http://www.atlanticcigs.com click!

First instance of their site in archive.org in October 1st 2013. And what did AtlanticCigs have to say in October 2013?

Atlantic Intertech electronic cigarettes.

The Most Anticipated & Desired
Electronic Cigarette in The World is Arriving Soon!


The Wait is Almost Over!

Atlantic
Cigs

Electronic Cigarettes | Atlantic Cigs

Kind of shoots their whole predicate ownership concept in the foot, doesn't it?

I smelled marketing BS long before I checked the archive history. Sorry, not in the market to buy a bridge today.
 

lintz69

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Atlantic Cigs itself was not formed until late 2013 but e-cigarette industry pioneers founded the company. Their experience dates back to the very earliest days of vaping. Atlantic’s founders were active in the ecig industry when it all began. This probably explains why they are the owners of the predicate product.

Source: ECCR NEWS
 
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