Problems with consistency in Ejuice..everywhere.

[Goldenkobold]

I vape, and I try lots of juices. I even sometimes review those juices.

What I have noticed and have seen mentioned from time to time is a lack of consistency in ejuice nicotine levels. What I mean by this is that you will vape a 18mg juice that feels like it has more nicotine than a 24mg juice.

I should say I only ever order 18-24mg...sometimes 26mg if its the only option available. I am not going to name any particular supplier as this is something I have noticed on multiple suppliers. Now it could just be my diet or what my body is like when I vape a certain juice...however there are some juices that routinely feel like a higher nicotine level than others, even though they share the same "18mg" label on the bottle.

I have noticed others talking about it recently, like the below examples.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...y-flights-winston-liquid-getting-me-high.html
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...review-keoke-coffee-www-thevaporroom-net.html

I know that this is one of the FDA's whipping boy topics, inconsistent nic levels, and as such some people may be adverse to talking about it but...
Could it be other ingredients causing this?
Has Anyone else noticed and/or experienced this?
Any Opinions on the topic?
Do we need the FDA?

 

[Stownz]

No, don't need the FDA. Just mix it yourself, and save a fortune. You never know what they are really mixing your stuff with, or who their supplies are. They can have a great juice one order, then they get screwed by their Nic supplier, and their juices messed up on the next.

My favorite was when I was shipped some INSANELY strong juice from a company when i started vaping. I mean instant headache and just felt poisoned for hours. I have no idea how much nic was in it, but it screwed me up bad. There was even a post I just read about mold growing in a person's clearomizer... LOLOLOLOLOL.

One way to fix it all, mix it yourself. Just need a very reliable and proven nic supplier as mixing the stuff from pure nic is unreasonable.

 

[uzzaperez]

Consistency has been an issue not only with the nic but with the flavor as well. I have multiple occasions where I fall in love with a flavor and order it a few times, sooner or later you'll get a mediocre batch.

The only place this doesn't happen to me is with some of the factory manufactured Dekang juices. There are a few flavors I like from V4L and while none of them are as absolutely amazing as some of the shockingly good mixes US suppliers come up with, many are very good and I never have a consistency problem.

Still, some of my fav US suppliers have flavors that I just can't resist whether consistency is an issue or no. That is also why I don't do a lot of DIY...I get frustrated when I can't DIY anything I like as much as a favorite flavor made by someone else.

 

[Goldenkobold]

No, don't need the FDA. Just mix it yourself, and save a fortune. You never know what they are really mixing your stuff with, or who their supplies are. They can have a great juice one order, then they get screwed by their Nic supplier, and their juices messed up on the next.

My favorite was when I was shipped some INSANELY strong juice from a company when i started vaping. I mean instant headache and just felt poisoned for hours. I have no idea how much nic was in it, but it screwed me up bad. There was even a post I just read about mold growing in a person's clearomizer... LOLOLOLOLOL.

One way to fix it all, mix it yourself. Just need a very reliable and proven nic supplier as mixing the stuff from pure nic is unreasonable.

I do mix some of my own, I still like certain vendors products better. I mean, I make my own pasta but I still go out and order sometimes as well.

 

[Java_Az]

We have the FDA like it or not. But they have decided to appeal the last court ruling which said regulate it as a tobacco product and are still pushing for a ban. To me in the long run there are only two ways this can go. Regulated by the FDA or banned. Most dont want the FDA involved at all but thats just not going to happen unless it is banned and people get black market Ecig supplies. Then who knows what the quality is of the juice or hardware will be. You could very well get juice mixed up by bubba in his overly dirty bath tube with inferior non USP grade ingredients. Personally i would like to see it regulated rather then banned. I would like to see juice makers and hardware makers held to high standards for everyones safety.

 

[mwa102464]

DIY all the way baby, this is the best option if you have the time and patience to do it. I usually mix once every week and make up my juice then let it steep for a week and vape the batch from the week or two before

 

[jeannest]

Well, my doctor was really excited by the idea of ecigs. He told me that 5 or 6 of his patients are using them with great success. This makes him happy. The one reservation that he has is the consistancy of the liquid. He feels that the eliquid should be regulated. He said, "How do you really know that the nicotine levels are accurate in the liquid?" I've enjoyed many different juices from different suppliers and I've found that some juices seemed to have more nicotine in them (even though I purchased the same nicotine levels on all of the juices). I read the thread about the guy who felt high after having his Liberty Flights juice last night before bed and it worried me. We don't want to give the FDA any reason to scrutinize vaping so hopefully all vendors are trying to be consistant with nicotine levels.

 

[Slea]

Yes, I have had this problem. I once had a supposed 18mg juice send my heart racing.

This is why we have an FDA. This is why we need an FDA. It is a shame we are where we are with the FDA right now. I like to know that what I'm consuming, be it nicotine, medications, or food, is what they say I'm consuming.

 

[Goldenkobold]

The problem with the fda is they want to sensationalize everything and test very little. They are apparently understaffed.

 

[AttyPops]

+1 DIY
+1 at least nic consistency standards (enforced by the FDA, or by an independent standards body for the industry... aka vendors get randomly tested and verified... get to display a "stamp/logo" if OK. History available.). Have to keep it at a reasonable cost so as to not drive the prices through the roof. (boom... sound of shooting self in foot by mentioning reasonable cost and FDA in the same paragraph).

 

[Goldenkobold]

The problem with the FDA is that they don't seem to want to test...just to regulate, they did that one half ... study and they complained about finding nicotine in 0 nic juices (knowing full well minute traces of nicotine are in many things)...I don't care about a +/1 1 mg here just wild variations.

 

[AttyPops]

P.S. I have heard that the PH of a liquid (or maybe even a person's saliva) could effect the nicotine absorption. For example, cigars have a different PH than cigs. You don't get much nicotine if you don't inhale cigs, but cigars don't have to be inhaled due to different PH. Same, of course, for chew. At least that's what I read somewhere long ago. So, you may wish to factor this into the equation. If this turns out to be correct, maybe PH should be standardized also, so that the absorption rate at a particular mg/ml would be consistent for an individual.

IDK enough about this to comment on the specifics, but I think it is worth considering PH in the standardization. Unless it turns out that e-juice PH is always within a narrow range anyway and the PH verification/testing becomes irrelevant. I think there is a thread about PH somewhere.....

I do think that standardization is one issue; safety and long-term effects studies are another separate issue.

 

[Heartisan]

I DIY, but also regularly use three suppliers. I've gotten Toffee from the same popular vendor many times, and while the flavor at 18mg has been pretty much the same - I had "racing heart syndrome" with one bottle. And now my last bottle was a lot lighter, and never steeped to a darker color as the previous ones had.

I am extremely concerned about consistency and quality of what I'm vaping. I think we all should be.

I just don't know how effective regulation is going to be. For instance - how many times do restaurants actually have inspections?? I read that there just aren't the resources to effectively police what's in our food chain, so will eliquid regulation be enforced? Or just force small suppliers out of business? Time will tell.

 

[Slea]

The problem with the FDA is that they don't seem to want to test...just to regulate.

This is very true. They review tests, they do not (generally) conduct studies themselves. Would you want to pay the taxes necessary for them to do that? Otherwise, testing will continue to be funded by private industry. And as long as testing is funded by those who have a dog in the fight, some testers will always lie.

 

[Sassyonemeis]

The FDA is not understaffed, they are simply biased (against e-cigs).

The problem with the fda is they want to sensationalize everything and test very little. They are apparently understaffed.

 

[TeeFour]

P.S. I have heard that the PH of a liquid (or maybe even a person's saliva) could effect the nicotine absorption. For example, cigars have a different PH than cigs. You don't get much nicotine if you don't inhale cigs, but cigars don't have to be inhaled due to different PH. Same, of course, for chew. At least that's what I read somewhere long ago. So, you may wish to factor this into the equation. If this turns out to be correct, maybe PH should be standardized also, so that the absorption rate at a particular mg/ml would be consistent for an individual.

IDK enough about this to comment on the specifics, but I think it is worth considering PH in the standardization. Unless it turns out that e-juice PH is always within a narrow range anyway and the PH verification/testing becomes irrelevant. I think there is a thread about PH somewhere.....

I do think that standardization is one issue; safety and long-term effects studies are another separate issue.

Interesting point. Nicotine is a nitrogenous base. It has a nitrogen in it that has a pair of electrons that can pick up a proton (positive hydrogen ion) from solution, which defines a base. The pH of the solution will determine what percentage of the nicotine is protonated (and thereby positively charged). My biochem knowledge is limited, but charge and polarity affect how easily a substance crosses cellular membranes. Many juices contain citric acid as an antioxidant supplier to preserve the flavor compounds, which will quickly give up their acidic hydrogens to the nicotine. But again, I'm not sure if the protonated, charged nicotine species will more or less easily cross your mucus membrane cells. Can any biologists/biochemists elaborate?

 

[simply me]

Well, my doctor was really excited by the idea of ecigs. He told me that 5 or 6 of his patients are using them with great success. This makes him happy. The one reservation that he has is the consistancy of the liquid. He feels that the eliquid should be regulated. He said, "How do you really know that the nicotine levels are accurate in the liquid?" I've enjoyed many different juices from different suppliers and I've found that some juices seemed to have more nicotine in them (even though I purchased the same nicotine levels on all of the juices). I read the thread about the guy who felt high after having his Liberty Flights juice last night before bed and it worried me. We don't want to give the FDA any reason to scrutinize vaping so hopefully all vendors are trying to be consistant with nicotine levels.

What does he mean by high? High or feeling nervous. Maybe he needs to lower his nic level. I vape LF and never get high. I really dont think nic get you high.

 

[dspin]

I agree, also some vendors seem unable to make the same juice twice in terms of flavor. Thats why I use very few myself. But again, nic levels are all over the place. I don't think enough attention is paid when juice is being made. The bigger the vendor gets, the less attention is paid to nic and flavor. I do believe this IMO

I vape, and I try lots of juices. I even sometimes review those juices.

What I have noticed and have seen mentioned from time to time is a lack of consistency in ejuice nicotine levels. What I mean by this is that you will vape a 18mg juice that feels like it has more nicotine than a 24mg juice.

I should say I only ever order 18-24mg...sometimes 26mg if its the only option available. I am not going to name any particular supplier as this is something I have noticed on multiple suppliers. Now it could just be my diet or what my body is like when I vape a certain juice...however there are some juices that routinely feel like a higher nicotine level than others, even though they share the same "18mg" label on the bottle.

I have noticed others talking about it recently, like the below examples.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...y-flights-winston-liquid-getting-me-high.html
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...review-keoke-coffee-www-thevaporroom-net.html

I know that this is one of the FDA's whipping boy topics, inconsistent nic levels, and as such some people may be adverse to talking about it but...
Could it be other ingredients causing this?
Has Anyone else noticed and/or experienced this?
Any Opinions on the topic?
Do we need the FDA?

 

[dspin]

Thats why we as the consumer could and should demand consistency. How hard is it to be more careful in measuring. When I do DIY its critical for the flavor. Vendors should all be held to the highest standard and if they don't make the juice the same all the time - quit buying, thats what I do. Another reason I went to DIY. Very few companies I buy from now, I will not tolerate juice that is not the same everytime unless there has been a bad batch and it is rectified.

Consistency has been an issue not only with the nic but with the flavor as well. I have multiple occasions where I fall in love with a flavor and order it a few times, sooner or later you'll get a mediocre batch.

The only place this doesn't happen to me is with some of the factory manufactured Dekang juices. There are a few flavors I like from V4L and while none of them are as absolutely amazing as some of the shockingly good mixes US suppliers come up with, many are very good and I never have a consistency problem.

Still, some of my fav US suppliers have flavors that I just can't resist whether consistency is an issue or no. That is also why I don't do a lot of DIY...I get frustrated when I can't DIY anything I like as much as a favorite flavor made by someone else.

 

[OaklandCA]

1. no one has mentioned that the PG nicotine mixes feel stronger than the VG mixes.
2. if you really want to find out you can read the nicotine measuring threads (sorry don't have the link at hand but very visible in the DIY (do it yourself) section. You can make a little test kit and find out how big the variance in you purchases really is.