Progression sequence of DIY mixing and taste differences

[BrotherBob]

Progression sequence of DIY mixing and taste differences

If one changes the order of DIY mixing, does this significantly change the taste of the mix after a steep?

Assume that %.steep time and all other variables are held constant.

Too be a bit clearer: Has anyone found that mixing your juice in a different order, will make a distinct taste difference?
By the qualifier "distinct taste difference", I mean, one could perform a blind test side by side of the two methods of mixing and tell which different mix the vape came from.

Why the question: I have read threads that say its a good idea (or you should always) to maintain the exact mixing order/sequence of your mixes
(A+B+C+D=ABCD or C+A+D+C=ABCD the same or C+A+D+C=CADC and clearly is detectable by anyone).
My guess on this is: Yes, but you would have to have very (not the majority of the vape community) sensitive taste buds to differentiate between the differences.

Whats your experience or take on this regarding taste detection?
Does anyone know for sure?

 

[readeuler]

The way I and many others mix, I don't see how it could. I vigorously shake my juice for a solid 30+ seconds after everything is in the bottle, to make sure everything is evenly distributed. This alone would seem to negate different mix orders.

Furthermore, I typically use between 20% and 30% flavoring as my only PG components, everything else VG(-based). I add my flavors, then nic, then VG. But before I mix, the flavors have always floated to the top. So they'll always be up there before I shake, whether they were added first or last.

I would recommend using a fixed mix order to relieve your memory: I know that once I've added my flavors it's nic time, and after that, VG time. I think it's more a precaution against accidentally adding the nic twice, for example.

 

[dannyv45]

Progression sequence of DIY mixing and taste differences

If one changes the order of DIY mixing, does this significantly change the taste of the mix after a steep?

There is no difference that I've seen that will make a difference in taste if you change the order of adding flavors, or preparing your base. What makes a big difference is if the mix is steeped or not. Tobaccos benefit the most from steeping and fruits benefit the least.

Assume that %.steep time and all other variables are held constant.

Consistant steeps would be

Tobaccos 3 - 5 weeks or 3 - 5 hours speed steeping

Deserts 2 - 4 weeks or 2 - 4 hours speed steeping (Read my blog on steeping)

Fruits no steeping - 1 week or 1 hour hours speed steeping

Too be a bit clearer: Has anyone found that mixing your juice in a different order, will make a distinct taste difference?
By the qualifier "distinct taste difference", I mean, one could perform a blind test side by side of the two methods of mixing and tell which different mix the vape came from.

None that I've seen

Why the question: I have read threads that say its a good idea (or you should always) to maintain the exact mixing order/sequence of your mixes
(A+B+C+D=ABCD or C+A+D+C=ABCD the same or C+A+D+C=CADC and clearly is detectable by anyone).
My guess on this is: Yes, but you would have to have very (not the majority of the vape community) sensitive taste buds to differentiate between the differences.

Whats your experience or take on this regarding taste detection?
Does anyone know for sure?

Let me recommend some reading which will answer most of your questions.

My blogs will give insight into all aspects of DYI, from steeping to what supplies to have on hand to a basic walk through mixing your first E-juice.

E-Cigarette Forum - dannyv45 - Blogs

Then read hoosier's blogs. These blogs concentrate on fine tuning your mix and give insight on additives.

E-Cigarette Forum - Hoosier - Blogs

Then read Boletus's blog's. These blogs concentrate on formulation of nicotine bases regarding proper calculations methods for figuring Nicotine concentration as well as safety.

E-Cigarette Forum - Boletus - Blogs

Then read Ginger's book "E-Cigarettes 102: DIY E-Liquid". It is a book which I've contributed to that delivers an in depth easy to follow guide in the art of DYI.

E-Cigarettes 102: DIY E-Liquid

I recommend viewing VPLive Vape Team Episode #82: DIY Safety and bookmark it for future reference. It explains safety in all aspects of DYI.

VPLive Vape Team Episode #82: DIY Safety

then read the stickies at the top of the page.

this will explain a lot of the how's and why's.

 

[bwh79]

(A+B+C+D=ABCD or C+A+D+C=ABCD the same or C+A+D+C=CADC and clearly is detectable by anyone).

Well clearly, C+A+D+C has twice the C's and no B, so there will be a difference in taste from A+B+C+D which has one of each, but aside from that obvious mistake, I don't see how it could matter. The only way I see it making a difference is if there's some sort of chemical reaction between A and C, for example, that is somehow neutralized by B and so doesn't occur when B is already present. It would have to be a fast-acting chemical reaction, too, to occur in the time between when you add ingredient B and when you add ingredient C a few seconds later. I don't think that's the case, however; far as I know we are just dealing with straight-up mixing of ingredients, not chemical changes on the molecular level. Someone will probably step in to correct me, if I'm wrong...

 

[sparkky1]

Well clearly, C+A+D+C has twice the C's and no B, so there will be a difference in taste from A+B+C+D which has one of each, but aside from that obvious mistake, I don't see how it could matter. The only way I see it making a difference is if there's some sort of chemical reaction between A and C, for example, that is somehow neutralized by B and so doesn't occur when B is already present. It would have to be a fast-acting chemical reaction, too, to occur in the time between when you add ingredient B and when you add ingredient C a few seconds later. I don't think that's the case, however; far as I know we are just dealing with straight-up mixing of ingredients, not chemical changes on the molecular level. Someone will probably step in to correct me, if I'm wrong...

SERIOUSLY ?

If I took a milk frother which I sometimes use to A B C D what do you think would happen ? It's all dependent on percentages not what goes in first....

 

[bwh79]

SERIOUSLY ?

Yes, seriously. Perhaps you quoted the wrong post, or else just misunderstood me...what I was saying is that I don't think the order makes a difference. I said that it could make a difference if there were chemical reactions involved, but then I went on to say that I didn't think that was the case in this particular situation.

If I took a milk frother which I sometimes use to A B C D what do you think would happen ? It's all dependent on percentages not what goes in first....

What I think would happen is that you would end up with a well-blended mixture of ingredients A, B, C, and D, but I think that perhaps BrotherBob might think that A and C might, in the absence of B, combine to form substance E, so that you could be left with a mixture of either [A, B, C, and D] or [B, D, and E], depending on what order they were added. Keep in mind, that's not what I think would happen, just what I think he thinks might happen.

 

[sparkky1]

Yes, seriously. Perhaps you quoted the wrong post, or else just misunderstood me...what I was saying is that I don't think the order makes a difference. I said that it could make a difference if there were chemical reactions involved, but then I went on to say that I didn't think that was the case in this particular situation.



What I think would happen is that you would end up with a well-blended mixture of ingredients A, B, C, and D, but I think that perhaps BrotherBob might think that A and C might, in the absence of B, combine to form substance E, so that you could be left with a mixture of either [A, B, C, and D] or [B, D, and E], depending on what order they were added. Keep in mind, that's not what I think would happen, just what I think he thinks might happen.

Gotcha my apologies.....

 

[sparkky1]

The flavor molecules all bind together and to make it taste different you would add more of B, it's all about the ratios .....but if you think it taste better mixed in a certain order then stick with that ....

 

[bwh79]

The flavor molecules all bind together

See, that's the thing. When you talk of molecules "binding" together, you're talking about a chemical reaction. I think the molecules may "blend" together, as in they get all mixed up with each other, but they don't "bind" to one another chemically. It's like if you pour a bunch of blue marbles and a bunch of red marbles in a bin together and stir them up. From far away, the mixture may look purple (and it would "taste" purple, if it were e-liquid and you were vaping it), but if you reach in and pull out one marble, it's still just going to be blue, or it's going to be red. In the end, it's still a bin full of red and blue marbles -- they don't combine with each other to become a bin full of purple marbles. Not without some sort of reaction taking place, anyway.

[EDIT]: Again, this is only what I think, but keep in mind that I am not a scientist. Maybe there is a chemical reaction taking place, and the "marbles" in your e-liquid are actually "turning purple." Maybe the red marble, for example, will bind together with whatever other kind it touches first, so that "red then blue, then yellow" results in something different than "red then yellow, then blue." In this example, we are left with either a bin full of purple and yellow marbles, or a bin full of orange and blue marbles, depending on the order. Once again, I don't think that's what is actually going on in our e-liquid, I'm just presenting it as an example of how the order could matter, if the ingredients did indeed react chemically with one another. If you want a definitive answer, I guess we'd better call in a chemist. Does anybody know a good one?

 

[sparkky1]

The only chemical reaction going on is the oxidation of nicotine ......

 

[sparkky1]

The binding is the flavor to the PG/VG .....there hence steeping ......

 

[BrotherBob]

C+A+D+C=ABCD Should read C+A+D+B=ABCD, my bad.

Have to read some posts from Danny but it sounds like there should be no significant, if any difference. Hope someone has tried this and can confirm.

 

[greenmonster714]

SERIOUSLY ?

If I took a milk frother which I sometimes use to A B C D what do you think would happen ? It's all dependent on percentages not what goes in first....

LOL....shhhhhhhhshshhshhhhhshhhshhhhhhhslurrrpshhhhhhhhhslurpshhhhhhh. Awesome idea!

 

[1vapeatatime]

I always add nic first, and then flavoring. That way I can tweak the PG or VG without messing with (my) important components. But I've done this more out of habit than anything else. I don't think it affects the taste. What I've found out is that Doing the precise measurements first, I have more flexibility, and ease later.