Pure nicotine? Where does the nicotine come from?

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GreySaber

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May 6, 2009
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So, IMHO, the whole 24 or 36 mg business has nothing to do with how much nicotine you are actually getting.

One the side note, anyone tried rubbing the e-liquid onto your gums? :lol:


Well, It sometimes makes my heart race when I get it on my hands and don't wash. (LEt that be a lesson kids, you spill E-jiuce in your hands, wash it the heck off.)
 

Surf Monkey

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EVapor: we know that studies seem to indicate that e-cigarettes only deliver about 10% of the nicotine that traditional cigarettes do per drag, based on tests with 16mg fluid. If that's the case, one would be fairly safe in assuming that 36mg fluid would deliver something in the range of 20% of a traditional cigarette per drag. The idea that they're "nothing more than theater props" appears flatly wrong. They don't get as much nicotine into the blood as quickly as cigarettes do, but they do deliver nicotine. Furthermore, it appears that nicotine suspended in PG or VG vapor is absorbed more through the mucous membranes in the mouth, throat and sinus cavities than through the lungs, so technique probably plays a role too. If you smoke an e-cigarette exactly like a traditional cigarette, you'll get a lot less nicotine just by the sheer mechanics of how the drug is absorbed. But if you roll the vapor around in your mouth, like you'd smoke a cigar, you're likely to get more nicotine than just sucking it directly into your lungs.

The point here is that we don't really know exactly what the chemical action is and we don't know how vaping technique, frequency of drags and so forth play into it. One thing we DO know is that the cigarette companies put additives in cigarettes to increase the PH of the smoke, thereby causing nicotine to get into the blood scream more efficiently and more quickly. Personally, I'd rather take in less nicotine AND less ammonia, benzene and god knows what else.

Before anyone passes judgment on e-cigarettes we need to see more research. Saying they're useless is just as irresponsible as saying that they're just as harmful as smoking traditional cigarettes. The evidence from the many users on this board shows practically unequivocally that nicotine is being delivered by e-cigarettes in quantities that make it a viable replacement therapy for traditional smoking.
 
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Surf Monkey

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thanks a lot ->
i would be interested in that - i sent you a pm



Be aware that pure nicotine is DEADLY poison. It can and will kill you in relatively small quantities. It's not to be trifled with. If you don't have experience handling extremely toxic materials, you shouldn't even be considering handing pure nicotine. Not only would it be a horrible shame if you (or anyone else here) killed themselves by getting a drop of pure nicotine in their systems (yes, a single small drop of high concentration nicotine can and will kill you), but it would set our cause back dramatically.
 
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DarkriftX

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Jun 20, 2009
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roger that -

i have experience with nicotine poisoning - about 30 years ago when i was in my twenties - working on the railroad - chewing tobacco - i spit upon an earthworm by chance

it squirmed around for about 20 seconds and died
works on ants too

LOL! I had to re-read this twice to actually get what you were saying. I guess to a point that almost counts as experience.

I personally seem to have a rather high tolerance for nic. I have on multiple occasions placed a nic patch on an arm, forgotten about it and placed another on my back or other arm. One of these times I then forgot about both of them and went out to smoke. That particular time I was working at an ER and smoking with some of the nurses who then noticed the patch on my arm and made a comment about nic poisoning which made me remember the other one. I do however think that my actual craving for nicotine is probably lower than most and will probably do fine with the low stuff.
 

Dolly

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Oct 24, 2009
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Just drop this in is as I've not seen the nicotine content of juice expressed as a percentage before:

A 24mg juice (x high) means 24mg/g (which is about 24mg/ml).

That is, 24/1000 or 2.4% (w/w)

Hence, a 10mg juice would be 1% nicotine (w/w) and a 5mg would be 0.5%.

I love this...thank you for posting! I love learning the intricacies of items like this. What's your sauce? :)
 

whistlrr

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Sep 10, 2009
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[...]Furthermore, it appears that nicotine suspended in PG or VG vapor is absorbed more through the mucous membranes in the mouth, throat and sinus cavities than through the lungs, so technique probably plays a role too. If you smoke an e-cigarette exactly like a traditional cigarette, you'll get a lot less nicotine just by the sheer mechanics of how the drug is absorbed. But if you roll the vapor around in your mouth, like you'd smoke a cigar, you're likely to get more nicotine than just sucking it directly into your lungs.

I can attest to this. I have to get all the mucous membranes involved that I can - all of 'em, nasal and all .. and I'm finally finally just getting to get to where just vaping nearly normally (heh) with 'french inhales' are starting to be enough (instead of needing to do my goofy nostril vaping method so much which I am starting to need and to do less and less) but I can tell I'm always going to have to have vape+nose involved somehow.

I know I am not the only one who, while as an analog cigarette smoker, at some point or another tried analog pipes and cigars and found them completely unsatisfying. Just holding some smoke in my mouth never got it for me either. I'm wondering for how many of us who are really struggling now to get what we need out of e-cigs this also holds true for (I mean that they also never any got satisfaction from pipes and cigars either).

I think there's a very good reason people who were cigarette smokers and not pipe and cigar smokers were cigarette smokers instead, you know?

Not trying to vape like you'd smoke an analog is really a tall order in a way when you think about it.

The whole 'just mouth vape like its a cigar' leaves me just as frustrated as an actual cigar would.. and I never french inhaled with analog cigarettes (I was capable of it it was something I learned to do as a kid sitting around with other kids shortly after starting to smoke but it was just for trick's sake and also unsatisfying and actually a bit irritating when done with a cigarette) but its an alteration on using on an e-cig that I can do and is necessary and about as close as I can come now to the sensation of smoking (which included sending the smoke all through my system and back out my nose -- something I'm not able to do with an e-cig because no matter how much vapor I make it, doesn't exist long enough to make it that far)
 
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leathermonkey7

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Messing with pure nicotine is crazy unless you have a lab set up for it, with a Hazmat suit etc... It is available from china online, but who knows about the quality control, or what type of shipping/customs problems you might run into. For economical mixing of your own e juice, I would go here:
150 mg pg unlflavored high powered nic juice for mixing [150mg] - $40.00 : DFWvapor!, US Made E-liquid, E-Cigarettes and ecigs accessories

Its clean, pharma grade, and made in the USA. I've bought some and its wonderful.
 

BadState

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Dec 22, 2009
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Messing with pure nicotine is crazy unless you have a lab set up for it, with a Hazmat suit etc... It is available from china online, but who knows about the quality control, or what type of shipping/customs problems you might run into. For economical mixing of your own e juice, I would go here:
150 mg pg unlflavored high powered nic juice for mixing [150mg] - $40.00 : DFWvapor!, US Made E-liquid, E-Cigarettes and ecigs accessories

Its clean, pharma grade, and made in the USA. I've bought some and its wonderful.

How many milliliters is that?
 

DVap

Nicotiana Alchemia
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It looks like 30 mL of 150 mg/mL for $40.00.

The seller very correctly communicates that this concentration (150 mg/mL) is not to be trifled with, and even insists on getting the buyer's phone number to contact the buyer to make doubly sure the buyer understands that this stuff can be dangerous undiluted.

In my opinion (I'm only a chemist), 100 mg/mL is about the highest nicotine level I would like to see available. I guess I won't criticize 150 mg/mL too badly, except to say, that's getting a bit over my "comfort level". I simply worry about escalation by vendors in order to stand out. Who is going to be first to offer 250 mg/mL? Then 500 mg/mL? It's a slippery-slope that might take us from 100 - 150 mg/mL offerings to these simply irresponsible 25 - 50% or higher levels being offered for sale.

I occasionally post calculations of the "cost effectiveness" of nicotine concentrates. This represents a far from complete "guide" and mostly reflects vendors with whom I have ample customer service experience.

In the case of DWF Vapor, you are getting 4.5 grams of nicotine for $40.00. You are paying $8.89/gram of nicotine.

Two of my personal favorite nicotine suppliers are Chris at myfreedomsmokes.com and Levy at xtremevaping.com. Both offer nicotine at up to 100 mg/mL.

Chris (myfreedomsmokes.com) will sell you 60 ml of 100 mg/mL for $73.95.
On a per gram basis, you are paying $12.32/gram.

Levy (xtremevaping.com) will sell you 60 mL of 100 mg/mL for $36.50.
On a per gram basis, you are paying $6.08/gram.

For another comparison, the highly pure and extensively tested Platinum Ice liquid from Totally Wicked goes at $44.99 for 30 mL of 54 mg/mL. On a per gram basis, you are paying $27.77/gram. (I include this liquid only because I consider it to be the single finest liquid purity and testing-wise that I have personally encountered).

So...

Cost per gram of nicotine present

xtremevaping @ $6.08/gram
DFWVapor @ $8.89/gram
myfreedomsmokes @ $12.32/gram
TW Platinum Ice @ $27.77/gram

xtremevaping is clearly the low-price leader here.

Another way to look at this is what would be the cost of making 15 mL (perhaps a 1 week supply) at a common inbetween concentration of 24 mg/mL?

Cost to produce 15 mL of 24 mg/mL e-liquid (Approx. 1 week supply). (nicotine cost only)

xtremevaping @ $2.19
DFWVapor @ $3.20
myfreedomsmokes @ $4.44
TW Platinum Ice @ $10.00

Assuming 15 mL will last one week, here's the breakdown versus smoking a pack/day of analogs at $5.00/pack ($35.00/week)

Cost versus analogs ($5/pack) at one pack/day

xtremevaping @ 6%
DFWVapor @ 9%
myfreedomsmokes @ 12%
TW Platinum Ice @ 28%

In all cases here (once you've written off the investment in batteries, attys, etc), vaping is clearly less expensive (not to mention being far less unhealthy for you) than smoking.

When comparing cost, I will note that I consider TW to be a long-established large-scale vendor. While their customer service and responsiveness is adequate, their size might preclude them from providing personal service to the degree that I've seen from some.

I consider myfreedomsmokes to be a long-established vendor with a solid reputation for extremely responsive and personal service.

I consider xtremevaping to be a more newly-established vendor that is quickly building a reputation for extremely responsive and personal service.

DFW Vapor looks very new, and time will tell as to their level of customer service satisfaction.
 
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TropicalBob

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Jan 13, 2008
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Dvap is the authority on this. Don't even think of messing with anything close to pure nicotine. Forget the whole notion or the wrath of God will crash down on e-smoking in a heartbeat: One dead e-smoking do-it-yourselfer and this game is over.

Compared to the alternative, e-liquid is cheap. There's just no good reason to want to make your own.
 

DVap

Nicotiana Alchemia
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Great answer DVAP can you get that nicotine supplier chart posted at the top of a thread (even make it sticky?)

I dunno if it's really sticky material since it's pretty specific to only a few suppliers. Main point might be that a little math can go a long way in evaluating value... but there's also more to value than price alone.
 

deusXmchna

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Apr 11, 2010
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Does dissolving nic base into PG (or VG- or possibly an easily removed low b.p. solvent) decrease, or increase stability (I imagine oxidation would be greatest threat).

Theoretically if one was going to try to lay in a supply of nic base before FDA takes control and tries to stamp it out- would the best long term storage plan be to mix up nic/PG (say in liters of 100mg/ml- and then break down from there as needed), or just mix nic into PG as needed? Meaning- do the solvents (or do ANY solvents) provide any protection from degradation? Or is this an unknown variable at this time?

Thnx
 
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