Quad microcoil cotton wicks possible on VHO Helios

[TreVader]

Currently Running dual micro coils with cotton wicks... prob around .4Ohms. In order to run quads I would obviously have to increase the resistance on each coil nearly twofold.... not sure how safe it is to run something at ~.2 Ohms. Anybody ran quads w/ cotton on a Helios? I'm tempted to just try it and see if the battery blows. Using 28G Kanthal A1 with 5 loops wrapped around a 1/8th inch nail... I'll take a pic later but it's a pretty tight setup... plenty of room and IMO cotton is substantially better than silica. I haven't had any issues with burning wicks but i tend to check the wicks every 4 or 5 drags.

Also I'm curious if anybody has run below .4 Ohms. I know the setup i'm running now is already well below any safety margin i'm just curious if anybody has tried it and what happened. I'm using AW LiMn 18490s in a brass sentinel clone.

 

[minimalsaint]

Doesn't sound like a great idea. What is the amp limit on the batteries you are using?

 

[Ryedan]

You must not draw more amps from the battery than it will make without heating up.

The AW 18490 will do 16.5 A continuous.

At 0.4 ohms at 4.0 volts on a full charge (a little less than 4.2 volts due to some voltage drop) you are drawing about 10 A. No problem.

At 0.2 ohms you are drawing double so about 20 A. That will heat up the battery. Plus, if you have a short the draw will be higher. If you get the battery hot enough it will vent and if the mod it's in is not adequately vented it could explode from the pressure buildup. Think pipe bomb. I don't know how well the Sentinel clone is vented, but if it were me I would not try to find out by trying to see if it blows. The chance of that happening in my mouth is not worth it to me. I like my throat, jaw, teeth and tongue just where they are right now. Also I dislike that much pain and disfigurement

You can check the amp draw of your setup by using an online calculator like the one here. Plug in the volts and resistance, hit calculate and it will fill in the rest.

For determining how many amps a battery can put out, Google it. Different batteries can have very different max outputs.

Vape safe

 

[gmb225]

You must not draw more amps from the battery than it will make without heating up.

The AW 18490 will do 16.5 A continuous.

At 0.4 ohms at 4.0 volts on a full charge (a little less than 4.2 volts due to some voltage drop) you are drawing about 10 A. No problem.

At 0.2 ohms you are drawing double so about 20 A. That will heat up the battery. Plus, if you have a short the draw will be higher. If you get the battery hot enough it will vent and if the mod it's in is not adequately vented it could explode from the pressure buildup. Think pipe bomb. I don't know how well the Sentinel clone is vented, but if it were me I would not try to find out by trying to see if it blows. The chance of that happening in my mouth is not worth it to me. I like my throat, jaw, teeth and tongue just where they are right now. Also I dislike that much pain and disfigurement

You can check the amp draw of your setup by using an online calculator like the one here. Plug in the volts and resistance, hit calculate and it will fill in the rest.

For determining how many amps a battery can put out, Google it. Different batteries can have very different max outputs.

Vape safe

are u sure an aw 18490 will do over 16a? i have some that r 1100mah with an 8c rating. so 8c x 1100ma=8.8a max. unless the website i bought them from was wrong at 8c?

 

[JmanEspresso]

Just make sure you calculate the amp draw, and compare it to what the battery can handle. DONT go over the batteries amp limit.


IF YOU FEEL THE SWITCH ALL OF A SUDDEN HEAT UP, EITHER GET THAT BATTERY OUT OF THE MOD AND AWAY FROM YOURSELF PRONTO, OR TOSS THE MOD ITSELF.

The dripper will heat up. It the switch and the battery which you need to pay attention too.

 

[MattyB1503]

Fine for a MNKE or AW IMR 1600mAh 18650, There are a couple more 18650's that can handle a 0.2 ohm load but those seem to be some of the more popular 18650's atm.

Although there are some 18490's (AW IMR 1100mAh) that can technically handle a load down to ~ 0.26 ohms the closer you get to the (max continuous current discharge) limit the more of a voltage drop you'll get.

Just meter your build and know your battery limitation. Quads can def be done on a 18650. Sounds like a monster build

 

[MattyB1503]

are u sure an aw 18490 will do over 16a? i have some that r 1100mah with an 8c rating. so 8c x 1100ma=8.8a max. unless the website i bought them from was wrong at 8c?

I believe AW IMR 1100mAh are rated at 15c

 

[Ryedan]

are u sure an aw 18490 will do over 16a? i have some that r 1100mah with an 8c rating. so 8c x 1100ma=8.8a max. unless the website i bought them from was wrong at 8c?

It's always good to do your own research ! I have also seen other numbers on the internet. Here is a post from AW on Candle Power Forums that says:

"IMR18490 Specifications :
Nominal Voltage : 3.7V
Capacity : 1100mAH
Lowest Discharge Voltage : 2.50V
Standard Charge : CC/CV ( max. charging rate 3A )
Cycle Life : > 500 cycles
Max. continuous discharge rate : 15C
Operating Discharge Temperature : -10 - 60 Degree Celsius"

So, 15 x 1.1 = 16.5 A. I believe that AW on this forum is correct. If you have any doubts, more research is the right thing to do. If you find out this data is incorrect, please let us know.

 

[Raycecar]

You also have to take into consideration voltage drop.. With a .2ohm coil your voltage drop will be huge, so you'll probably only be pulling 3.6v from a fully charged battery reading 4.2v.

3.6v with a .2ohm coil is only pulling 18 amps.

So really, you're not pulling the amps everyone says you will. That would be with a mod that has NO voltage drop.

 

[MattyB1503]

You also have to take into consideration voltage drop.. With a .2ohm coil your voltage drop will be huge, so you'll probably only be pulling 3.6v from a fully charged battery reading 4.2v.

3.6v with a .2ohm coil is only pulling 18 amps.

So really, you're not pulling the amps everyone says you will. That would be with a mod that has NO voltage drop.

I get what you're saying.

I do all my calcs at a theoretical fully charged battery with zero voltage drop (4.2V); and it is true that the battery will never see this level of stress, or possibly only for a fraction of a second. A built in factor of safety if you will.

However I was schooling a new vaper on Ohms Law, showing him free apps for his phone ect. ect. when he mentioned that he experienced a battery failure with a 18490 at ~0.2 ohm load. I'm paraphrasing of course, but basically dude was vaping as he was going through a drive through, mod got super hot, pulled the batt out, burnt him so he tossed it out the window, then (no BS), according to him the battery exploded and they kicked him out because they thought he set off an M80.

Now I know the stories 2nd hand info and he didn't recall the battery brand or exact coil resistance but I genuinely believed him.

I don't think it's valid to calculate your current draw to include a presumed V-drop w/o doing extensive load testing, but then I tend to error on the side of caution.

Or just get some MNKE's; they have a pulse rating of 60A.

 

[TreVader]

I have 3 different kinds of batteries: AW 700mAH 18350s, AW 1100mAH 18490s, and Efest 2000mAH 18650s. The only one that concerns me is the Efest. It should be ok. If it vents it vents... the sentinel clone has holes and I don't really mind breaking it or a battery

 

[TreVader]

Not sure if this will work (uploader doesn't like 4MB photos)

 

[TreVader]

wicks inserted later... so far it works but it needs even more airflow than the massive holes on the helios

 

[MattyB1503]

Not sure if this will work (uploader doesn't like 4MB photos)

View attachment 258680

What did your coils ohm out at? I did a quad micro (28ga, 1/16" ID, 8 wraps, x4) on an old EDZ atty last night. I hit .25-.26 ohms. Seemed to work pretty well except the atty was heating up like a mother. Using MNKE.

 

[TreVader]

.25 ohms 28ga 1/8" ID 5 wraps x 4

 

[TreVader]

It doesn't heat up too bad on the Helios. You need a TON of airflow.... I was tempted to drill out the airflow control ring to add an extra 2 holes but whatever... it works. Helios has more airflow than any other RBA i've ever seen stock, by a large margin too. The draw is almost just like breathing.


Oh yeah and i went out and bought some MNKE 1500mAH 18650s. they're still charging... take forever (compared to my 18350s and 18490s)

 

[DontAshOnTheDog]

Thinking of picking up a helios for quad setups, as the positive post has two holes so you don't have to cram four tails into one opening. Sony 18650s have 30 amp limit in 1600 and 2000 mah and are supposed to be safe even at .2 ohms. Not sure what your battery's amp limit is. Do the math and the research and you can deduce what builds are safe

 

[Ryedan]

Surprised to see this thread back!

DontAshOnTheDog, do you realize the last response to this thread is over two months old?