Question and problem with 5v regulator

[cpcp68]

Which batteries? Are you saying the OP has a bad batch or brand? Folks have been building 5V box mods here for quite a while. They have used pairs of 10440s, 14500s, and 18650s. I would say the bulk, actually almost all, of these have been protected UltraFire or TrustFires with the TI 5V regulator. Whenever folks post pics that's all you ever see. Some of the original examples have been from some very savvy and well regarded modders. As far as I can tell this is the first time this issue has come up. I assumed at first some OP wiring problem, but Hoog himself has duplicated the results. Maybe a bad batch of regulators?

I've seen your posts before, they always seem to be theoretical in nature. You said:
So theoretically using your 1.8A number the most volts folks could use before triggering the protection circuit with a Joye 2.3 ohm atty is about 4.2V. In the real world I'm sure many folks have easily exceeded that.

Asking for the actual loaded voltage of the MV regulator is a valid question, for if in fact it is 5.5V that would theoretically explain why it's unacceptable for Joye atties. The current required to drive a Joye atty at 5.5V would be about 2.4A.

Since I am an electronics designer, I am used to design to specs, not outside of them, therefore, yes, my posts tend to be theoretical in nature, as I all I have to make a reliable design are datasheets and experience. Do not worry, I made my fair share of ACTUAL circuits and systems, just look me up, just not for vaping.

I agree with the fact that the problem does not show up for MOST batteries, but it does show up occasionally. There was also a thread on RCR123As having similar issues, so the problem is indeed out there.

Edit: Just found another thread that discusses similar problems with 14500s

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/battery-mods/70053-my-14500-bats-keep-dying.html#post1036206

In the case of the thread we are discussing now, the problem manifested itself (with a 5 sec cutoff, mind you), so I was just trying to lend a hand. If it were me, I would try a different set of the same type of batteries, if available. Using a small series resistor to limit the current is not great but works in reducing the power into the atty. However, with a 2.3ohm atty and 5V, that power with a limiting resistor would be below 10W, which has been mentioned to be the sweet spot for this atty. As usual, just my 2 cents, theoretically speaking.

 

[Scott Tenorman]

EZ, these batts were brand new a couple weeks ago so they should be fine. I have 4 batts that I use and charge in pairs of 2. This problem happens with all of them. They are the grey ultrafire 14500 (I won't mention supplier because my supplier is very reputable and I don't want this one incident to tarnish the name). Problem happens whether fresh off charger with 4.2v charge and after a couple hours use. Basically all the time.


Its possible there is one batt in each pair that is causing the problem, I will try them in different combos but don't expect different results. I am getting a new shipment of batts soon so hopefully it will prove to be faulty protection circuits in these particular batts. I might try the TI regulator, can you remind me of the part #? Have rebuilt the circut several times with no difference in results.


I have checked voltage at the atty under load its 5.07v. Same unloaded. When the protection circuit kicks in, the batts go from putting out 8.28V together to 1.8V together. One batt shows 4.11 and the other -2.31 (yes, negative 2.3) This adds up to 1.8V together. In one pair, the same batt tripped no matter which batt was where, and in the other pair whichever batt was closer to the atty in series tripped.

So basically I'm just hoping I got a few batts with janky protection circuits, we will see when I get the new batts in. Thanks

 

[hoogie76]

Theres is one that that came to mind for me, this is from the reg spec sheet :

• 3A / 5V Output low dropout voltage regulator
• TO220 Full-Mold package (4PIN)
• Overcurrent protection, Thermal shutdown
• Overvoltage protection, Short-Circuit protection
• With output disable function

The max voltage out on these is supposed be a 5.12v so you shouldn' be be seeing 5.5v but there could be variaions.. Anyway if the current exceeded 3 amps it could possibly kick in the regulators protection circuit.. But I don't think it's possible, Ohm's Law Calculators shows that even at 5.5v and a 2.2 ohm atty the most we'd be drawing is 2.5 amps.

The 5 second problem happened on the first one I did a few times but then stopped and never did it again regardless of the atty.. Only thing that I never paid any attention to was what batts I had in there at the time it cutout.

 

[cpcp68]

EZ, these batts were brand new a couple weeks ago so they should be fine. I have 4 batts that I use and charge in pairs of 2. This problem happens with all of them. They are the grey ultrafire 14500 (I won't mention supplier because my supplier is very reputable and I don't want this one incident to tarnish the name). Problem happens whether fresh off charger with 4.2v charge and after a couple hours use. Basically all the time.


Its possible there is one batt in each pair that is causing the problem, I will try them in different combos but don't expect different results. I am getting a new shipment of batts soon so hopefully it will prove to be faulty protection circuits in these particular batts. I might try the TI regulator, can you remind me of the part #? Have rebuilt the circut several times with no difference in results.


I have checked voltage at the atty under load its 5.07v. Same unloaded. When the protection circuit kicks in, the batts go from putting out 8.28V together to 1.8V together. One batt shows 4.11 and the other -2.31 (yes, negative 2.3) This adds up to 1.8V together. In one pair, the same batt tripped no matter which batt was where, and in the other pair whichever batt was closer to the atty in series tripped.

So basically I'm just hoping I got a few batts with janky protection circuits, we will see when I get the new batts in. Thanks

you could also omit the regulator in the circuit and see if the batteries are indeed the problem. Are you not using the TI regulator? If so, which one are you using? I was assuming you had a 5V-3A LDO regulator.

Thanks

 

[Ez Duzit]

Scott- the TI regulator you asked about is the UCC283-5. But I don't think the regulator is the problem. Wait and see what the new batteries do, but the regulator from MadVapes shouldn't be the issue.

 

[Scott Tenorman]

Scott- the TI regulator you asked about is the UCC283-5. But I don't think the regulator is the problem. Wait and see what the new batteries do, but the regulator from MadVapes shouldn't be the issue.

Thanks for the help Ez, I am 99% sure its the batts, I didn't realize how sensitive the pcb can be and I probably mishandled them not knowing how fragile they are. We will see with new batts, I'm gonna be more careful, and make a bit more room for them in the box so I don't smash the ends.

 

[Scott Tenorman]

Update: I made one of these mods for a friend and it works perfectly for him with his batts. I am now like 99.9 percent sure I damaged my protected 14500's not knowing how fragile they can be. Will update and ask for a close when I get my new batts. Expecting only good things. To summarize, the title of the thread is question and problem with 5V regulators and there is no problem at all with the regulators, just my caveman-like handling of batts. Or so it would seem. Thanks all for the replies.

 

[jace]

So far so good. You are my freaking hero! I have TRIED to get this thing to cut out but it sold as a rock.

I think new, gently treated batteries and the higher resistance 510 atomizers I got from MV did the trick. I am TOTALLY LOVING my 5v mod-deriffic bliss!

VAPE ON!!!!​

 

[Scott Tenorman]

So far so good. You are my freaking hero! I have TRIED to get this thing to cut out but it sold as a rock.

I think new, gently treated batteries and the higher resistance 510 atomizers I got from MV did the trick. I am TOTALLY LOVING my 5v mod-deriffic bliss!

VAPE ON!!!!​

Jace, that's what I'm talking about! Good stuff, now I'm going to see if I can wait for my new batteries. I'm tired of vaping at 3.7V!

 

[jace]

Well, I'd lend you my swap set until they get here, but I've SEEN how you treat your batts. You brute!

 

[Scott Tenorman]

Well, I'd lend you my swap set until they get here, but I've SEEN how you treat your batts. You brute!

Thanks a lot you .......

Update:I got my new batts in and that still didn't fix the problem. Shortly after that I got new attys in and problem solved. I don't know why my (very) old atties from a couple different suppliers made everything go wacko, but new atties from a couple different companies all work. Even made the old batts work, except for one that had actually been damaged. This also restores my confidence in my own work, I was really starting to think I had gone crazy!

Moral of the story and answer for those with this problem....get new attys. Assuming you haven't damaged the PCB circuit in your existing batts. Thanks to all for the input, the solution doesn't make sense to me either

 

[WillyB]

but new atties from a couple different companies all work.

I guess we'll never never know if this regulator works right with real 510 atties... Joye.

 

[Scott Tenorman]

I guess we'll never never know if this regulator works right with real 510 atties... Joye.

I never said I didn't have real 510 attys. I mostly use totally wicked attys which are most definitely genuine. Works great. This was never a regulator problem as the title suggests, it was all about bad attys and a couple bad batts.

 

[Soundwave]

Well I have this problem now... I have made a 5v box mod with 2 10440 batts with the 5v 3a regulator. The brand new Bauways I bought from madvapes don't work they cut out after about 3 seconds but the original (I assume) attys from cignot that came with my 510 w/PCC starter kit work... I am beyond frustrated. I have no clue what attys I have or where to buy more of them. HELP

 

[duby]

I'm having this same problem now. My 510 carto, 808 carto, and 901 atty work fine. But neither of my Joye 510 attys work. Not even a 2 second burn. I'm using 3.0v cr2's I have 4 and have tried all combination's.
Its definitely the lower resistance attys giving me the problems.
The cartos hit amazingly though.
Going to try another build with 14500's

 

[Vadim]

[FONT="]Hello all,
If I may put in my 2 cents only from my own personal experience.[/FONT]

[FONT="]All parts purchased at Madvapes.com and followed their instruction for 5v mod with regulator and batteries at Deal Extreme[/FONT]
[FONT="]5v box with 2x10440 [URL="http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.30788"]DealExtreme: $5.08 TrustFire Protected 10440 "600mAh" 3.7V Rechargeable Li-Ion Batteries (2-Pack)[/URL][/FONT]
[FONT="]5v box with 2x14500 [URL="http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.19771"]DealExtreme: $3.99 TrustFire 14500 3.7V 900mAh Rechargeable Lithium Batteries (2-Pack)[/URL][/FONT]
[FONT="]Only used the grey batteries because they are the cheapest (could be: you get what you pay for)[/FONT]
[FONT="]
Now on to how the 5v boxes worked with original 510 attys @2.2Ω:[/FONT]
[FONT="]They did not, 2 to 3 seconds then nothing; all batteries acted in the same manner, protection kept kicking in.[/FONT]

[FONT="]Purchased 510 attys (Bauway 2.5Ω) 510 Spare Atomizer (Bauway)
Purchased 510 attys (SLB 3.2Ω) 510 Spare Atomizer [/FONT]

[FONT="]510 attys (Bauway 2.5Ω) for unknown reason the Ohms dropped to 1.0 and battery protection kicked in. So I used it on my 3.7V box and it worked well for 2 weeks then died.[/FONT]
[FONT="]510 attys (SLB 3.2Ω) worked well for a week or two then again Ohms dropped and battery protection kicked in or Ohms went way up. In either case they became unusable on 5v box.[/FONT]

[FONT="]Now for some good news:[/FONT][/B]
[FONT="]Purchased 510 empty Cartomizers Refillable 510 Cartomizers[/FONT]
[FONT="]Ohms advertised should be approximately 3.2Ω, the ones I received were between 2.7Ω – 3.0Ω.[/FONT]
[FONT="]2.7Ω and 2.8Ω work perfectly with 5v box.[/FONT]
[FONT="]3.0Ω not so much but works well on my 8v box (just no 5v regulator)[/FONT]
[FONT="]Cartomizers also hold much more juice; it is a relief not to have to juice up so often.[/FONT]
[FONT="]I opened one cart up and it looks like it is made some how different from regular attys.[/FONT]

[FONT="]Now I order different batteries to see if there is a difference between grey and black/red and see if the original 510 attys 2.2Ω will now work on a 5v box with DealExtreme: $5.40 TrustFire Protected 14500 3.7V 900mAh Rechargeable Lithium Batteries (2-Pack)
Not to say that I would ever again go back to using attys.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Only Cartomizers for me from now on![/FONT]

[B][FONT="]So the point seems to be that there are two hardware items at fault:[/FONT]
[FONT="](1)-Battery protection when used with a (2)-high drain atty[/FONT]

[FONT="]Hope this helps.[/FONT]

 

[WillyB]

[FONT="]Hello all,
If I may put in my 2 cents only from my own personal experience.[/FONT]

[B][FONT="]So the point seems to be that there are two hardware items at fault:[/FONT][/B]
[FONT="](1)-Battery protection when used with a (2)-high drain atty[/FONT]

[FONT="]Hope this helps.[/FONT]

Hmm. Maybe just one hardware item at fault... the regulator.

Try one of these some day.

Digi-Key - 296-8157-5-ND (Manufacturer - UCC383T-5)

 

[Vadim]

Hmm. Maybe just one hardware item at fault... the regulator.

Try one of these some day.

Digi-Key - 296-8157-5-ND (Manufacturer - UCC383T-5)

Hi WillyB,
It's funny that you mentioned this regulator ;-)
Just so happens I placed an order last night for this one as a free sample from TI.
Linear Regulators - Single Channel LDO - UCC383-5 - TI.com

 

[Vadim]

As soon as it comes in I will replace the current 5v regulator with the one from TI and use a standard 510 2.2Ohm atty to test the Mod.
Will let you know how the test goes.

Best regards,

 

[Vadim]

Does anyone know of a good 6 volt regulator?