Question for my dad

[devauto]

The Joyetech/Ovale eRoll/Mini is an awesome tank (not cartomizer) based cigalike - he can use any juice he likes with it.

Here are my cig-a-like starter kit suggestions:

Halo G6: Electronic Smokeless Cigarettes G6 | Halo Cigs
V2: Electronic Cigarette Kits | Standard Kit | V2 Cigs

The WTA and variable voltage are not negotiable for me -- I'd be right back to analogs.

Okay, so here is what I think. I believe your dad has smoked so long that the feel of a cigarette in his fingers, or dangling from his lips, is as much a part of the problem as the actual act of smoking it. To get him over that part of the habit, essentially to brainwash him and sell him on vaping, he HAS to initially have something that is as close to a real cigarette as possible. It may last him years, or it may only last him a couple of days, either way, this must be the starting point.

I agree completely with one of the 2 cigalike kits suggested above, to give him the physical feel of a real cigarette. Personally, I think the eRoll is going to come the closest as far as size/weight, as the G6 is SUBSTANTIALLY heavier and longer (but will provide much longer battery life and still somewhat feel like a smoke). I would try the eRoll first.

The Whole Tobacco Alkaloid, or WTA ejuice is going to be the other essential part of the equation for the smoking effect. WTAs have small amounts of other tobacco alkaloids in them that affect the body as well when vaping. They help "mimic" the effect of tobacco on the body. Standard ejuice ONLY contains nicotine and is NOT ENOUGH for some heavy smokers. They NEED the other alkaloids (ask me how I know).

The eRoll for size and feel, and the WTA for effect, will be just about as close to a real cigarette as you can get with what is on the market today.

The caveat: Think of this hardware as a transitional/disposable setup and investment. This is money you have to be willing to throw away, up front. It is ONLY meant to get him into the vaping mindset. Once he is fully committed to vaping and not smoking, you will be shopping for better equipment that will support longer vaping time between refills and charges.

As always ... YMMV!

HTH

 

[Berylanna]

When I fist started vaping, I dropped from 3 PPD to 1.5 PPD without even trying. From there, I cut down to about 10 a day easily. But after that, I couldn't. In particular for me were the ones right after eating a big meal. Vaping just wouldn't do it, I had to have a cig.

I was vaping 24mg juice. Someone convinced me to get some 30mg juice. That did it. The day I started using the 30mg juice, I quit smoking.

Your explanation of needing a few cigs a day makes me think that you should consider some higher nic juice for those times.

Nic alone did nothing but make me nervous if I had very much or vaped very long, and that was at 18mg.

I'm mixing 1/2 36 Heather's with 1/2 24 WTA, so I'm at 30 nic. I suspect I need MORE wta but the wta flavors don't "do it" for me. Maybe I should try getting some flavor concentrate to add to the WTA so I'm not mixing it 1/2-1/2. (But the WTA is the 24, so it would be lower nic) But I also wonder, I've developed a little sweet tooth in the last few years (aging) and never had that before, so I was thinking of trying sugary stuff after meals. Maybe low-nic WTA at bedtime.
That would leave only the first 2 in the morning. Geez, I'd need 40 or something, ick!

 

[Grimwald]

I'm 61 and was a 40+ year heavy smoker. I did this myself without a son to advise me. I too thought I needed a cig-a-like and started with the Volt kit from Smokeless Image and cartomizers. I used this exclusively for 3 months until I gradually got into bigger batteries and tanks. I ordered a manual and an auto in my first kit and found the manual to be more natural for me. I found their tobacco juices to be good enough to give up cigarettes but, like many vapers, I stopped like them after a few months and had to switch to other flavors.

The other kit I could recommend is an Evod kit. Although it's a little bigger, it's still rather easy to use.

 

[macaroni]

Ok so my dad has been smoking 2 packs a day for as long as I can remember an he started smoking when he was 15 he's now 50. And the drs really want him to quit.

However he just called me saying he wants to try to vape again and quit smoking. He wants a cig a like I believe. He doesn't really know what he wants. But I think he wants it to be as realistic as possible. Which I told him the njoy king. But he said he tried it already. I'm kinda getting frustrated as i don't know what to suggest anymore.
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IMHO ... he is approaching this all wrong ... he is looking to simulate puffing on a Marlboro with an e-cig .... it's just not going to happen ... he'll never be satisfied ... vaping is great but it aint smoking. Until he convinces himself he is done with cigarettes and willing to try and trade his smoking ritual habit for a vaping ritual habit I'm afariad to say he is doomed to failure.

 

[Berylanna]

IMHO ... he is approaching this all wrong ... he is looking to simulate puffing on a Marlboro with an e-cig .... it's just not going to happen ... he'll never be satisfied ... vaping is great but it aint smoking. Until he convinces himself he is done with cigarettes and willing to try and trade his smoking ritual habit for a vaping ritual habit I'm afariad to say he is doomed to failure.

I disagree 100%. I had EXACTLY the same expectations he has. I know I'm still smoking those 2-4/day but it beats the hell out of 24/day and I'm a VERY responsive to CASAA calls to action, fighting for all of us.

It was a stepwise process, and I'M NOT DONE YET.

But this cartoon helped me a LOT:

4 Stages of Vaping - YouTube

 

[macaroni]

I disagree 100%. I had EXACTLY the same expectations he has. I know I'm still smoking those 2-4/day but it beats the hell out of 24/day and I'm a VERY responsive to CASAA calls to action, fighting for all of us.

It was a stepwise process, and I'M NOT DONE YET.

Hopefully you are right and I'm wrong. Maybe I'm projecting myself onto the OP's father, because I tried cig-a-likes many years ago when they first came out trying to quit smoking and it was a disaster. I was only successful now because I tried to replace my smoking rituals with vaping rituals with the full understanding that vaping is different than smoking.

 

[Myrany]

I'd really suggest looking into WTA liquids. It might just help supply that little whatever that so far has been missing. When he is getting a vapor that satisfies his needs the form of the device likely won't matter near so much.

 

[BigCatDaddy]

Could you get your dad into a well stocked vape shop with a juice bar? Might just find his juice of choice and the type of delivery device that gives him the choices he "thinks" he wants, lol, don't we all "think" we want a cig-a-like until we try other devices?!?
If he finds what he wants, and cost is not an issue, buy from the B & M.....otherwise, a few days waiting for vapemail from an online vendor will do the trick!
Good Luck!

I think you hit the nail on the head!! Getting him involved and having him make the decision on what he likes may give you and he both a chance at success. This is his addiction and he needs to own it and make the decision to beat it!!

 

[Berylanna]

Hopefully you are right and I'm wrong. Maybe I'm projecting myself onto the OP's father, because I tried cig-a-likes many years ago when they first came out trying to quit smoking and it was a disaster. I was only successful now because I tried to replace my smoking rituals with vaping rituals with the full understanding that vaping is different than smoking.

Same here, but my goal was to LEARN TO VAPE first, not quit smoking. Hence the helpfulness of that cartoon linked above. If I hadn't had a new car AND a habit of smoking in the car, I might not have tried enough different over-the-counter things to find the blu. (This is why I am SO SO opposed to the 'no public vaping' laws, not everybody happens to be getting a new car right now, and most couldn't afford one. It was my first ever NEW car.)

Somewhere in there I found ECF, and that's where I learned that NOTHING would taste like my stinkys, and that "thank goodness" was a typical long-term reaction to that. I'd been forced to change analog brands a few times in the past due to allergic reactions built up to my brand, or a brand being discontinued, so I was aware that it takes only 1-2 weeks for a different brand of cigarette to taste like "my smoke" -- the definition of "my smoke" (and now "my vape") is partly or mostly my brain's reaction to getting used to the reward associated with that flavor.

Each part of the old rituals, flavors, etc that I had to give up was a separate discovery, and each surprised me. (You'd think I'd have learned after awhile but I can still be surprised when I accept a change....)

ECF was a huge help. Well, let's be truthful here. W/O the info from ECF, I'd have gone right back to stinkys. ECF was make or break for me.

Also, there are other active ingredients in tobacco, my doctor tells me one of them is a powerful calming agent. Tobacco is a sacred herb to some of the First Nations in North America, for a REASON. Just like you get MUCH better Vitamin C absorbtion from an orange, pulp and all, than from Vitamin C, due to the complex mixture native to the plant, tobacco is also a complex herb, not just a source of nicotine. Many people that find ecigs are not enough can use the packet-style snus (no spitting, no loose stuff on your teeth) to get those other agents. Me, I tried WTA and without it I'd be back to stinkys. I need the complex herb, not the single ingredient.

 

[eyerhere]

All the toys may not matter as much as you think. Go spend some time with him and all your gear. Let him try all of it and leave what ever he likes behind. Yea it could hurt if it is your provari he hits on but probably the time spent with him will be a better converter than any tank/juice combo.
Can you tell I am a Dad? Lol

 

[tgardner23]

He's the one who keeps telling us he wants to try another ecig but he has tried so many. I think his problem is with his nic levels he says anything higher then 6 makes him cough! Maybe he should try 100% vg?? I just don't think 6mg nic is enough two stop smoking after smoking 2 packs a day




QUOTE=Baldr;11639074]Almost everyone that uses vaping as a means of quitting cigs (ie, most people who vape) start out thinking "I want it to be just like cigs. I want the device to be the size of a cig, I want the experience to be exactly like smoking a cig, I want the taste and the smell to be exactly like a cig".

I felt the same way. Luckily, I listened to advice and skipped the "start with a cig-alike" stage.

As long as he wants/expects it to be exactly like cigs, vaping will not work for him. Because it isn't the same.

There is a learning curve when you vape. You have to learn some basics about your device. You have to learn what flavor and nic-level juice works for you. Getting the nicotine level right is very, very important. IMO, one of the hardest things. Obviously, some people manage to start with the right nic level, but many don't, and they don't know enough about vaping to know that they should be adjusting that.

Some people like a lot of flavors and finding a flavor they like is easy. Some have to work harder at it. Most people will start out saying "I want one that tastes like a cig". But no vape juice actually tastes anything similar to a cigarette, and once you've been vaping awhile, you will probably see that as a good thing.

Also, it won't work if he doesn't want it to work. If you and mom are hounding him and he's saying "yeah, sure, I'll try it again, whatever", then it isn't likely to work. If he *wants* it to work, then he's got a good shot.

Assuming he's really interested, I suggest get him a cheaper VV device, like the ego Twists or vision spinners. and a charger. Get him a Kanger Protank II or something very similar. Get him some small batches of juice, ideally 2 or 3 small bottles in different flavors and with different nic levels. (If you can get him into a vape shop where he can try out different flavors, all the better.) Tell him he doesn't have to quit smoking all at once, he can transition.

And keep your fingers crossed.

Good luck.[/QUOTE]




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[Steamix]

2 PAD - you're looking at 24mg/ml IMHO.

It's not the nic thats making him cough. I was used to some pretty rank stuff tobacco-wise, but believe you me, when I took the first drag on an ego-t about a year ago ( 100% PG liquid ) I felt like my chest was about to cave in
So I think you're on the right track going hi-nic hi-VG and little or no PG.

Hope it's going to work our yor you and you Dad

 

[Myrany]

Hopefully someone will chime in with the link to it. There is a great write up on how to vape. Many new vapers try to hotbox like we did cigs and that causes them coughing and irritation. Learning HOW to vape is as important as the gear.

Be danged if I can find the link now.

 

[mare ze dotes]

I tried, cant find it either. It is true, I did have to learn how to vape. It is not like sucking in a big lung hit from my passed Mistys. I have only had 2 people try my simple ego, I say suck on it like a straw, swush around in your mouth and puff out. Maybe inhale a bit as you do.

After a year, I still over draw and cough when I am not paying attention to myself.

 

[Berylanna]

I didn't find the "how to vape" in time to help me but somewhere I found a hint that helped.

When you pull harder on a combustible, the extra air burns it hotter and you still get a good draw which most of us were well-practiced at inhaling in a 2-stage process.

For vaping, I *had* to realize that pulling harder doesn't get me anything because the vapor is being PUSHED at my by the battery, so I have to slow down and accept what it is giving me at the rate it is giving it. Otherwise I confuse my throat and airways and cough and cough.

ALSO, most (not all) people I know went through a stage of coughing when trying to vape JUST LIKE WE DID WITH CIGARETTES. Only back in those days we were patient and motivated. Vaping is different-enough that it has to be learned just like smoking was learned. So that leaves patience and motivation. I found the better the flavor and the better the vapor, the more motivated I was. The patience in my case came from realizing that there is a difference between a product that does not work vs a product that I haven't learned to use.

"Hey, this baseball is defective, it doesn't go where I aim it and I can't hit it either!!!"