Question involving evaporation

[Darrigaaz]

Hello fellow foggers,

I just got to thinking about nic strengths in juices. So my question is:

If I leave 10ml of 8mg juice to sit out and evaporate down to 5ml, will it be 16mg juice? Or will it just be 5ml left of 8mg juice?

I know... that's 2 questions, but does anybody know if nic evaporates at regular room temp?

Thanks,
Darri

 

[aubergine]

I betcha Adren might know...

 

[Darrigaaz]

Yeah I guess I could have just sent her a PM, lol.... But maybe others might be interested to know the answer to this. In case their str juice is out of stock, they can order a lower nic and gain str on it and still keep flavor (or possibly increase flavor)

 

[wisteelersfan]

Now this is an interesting question..........

 

[Garblesnarf]

I don't believe there is any evaporation.

I left a dot of juice on my counter for 2 days and it was still there until I wiped it off.
The actual water content seems to be pretty low.

It seems when the juice "dates" it's due to a breakdown of chemical composition.
So while it may not atomize as well, it doesn't seem to be because it evaporates.

//Based off of observation.

 

[Adrenalynn]

I would have to make a guess, honestly. Well - let's call it a "hypothesis" For me, I'd have to test experimentally before I was really satisfied. Chemistry isn't my strong-suit, physics is.

Technically, I believe we have a mixture of liquid nicotine [miscible] and liquid PG [miscible] (and liquid flavors, be they oil-based or aqueous solution). In a mixture, the components maintain their distinct properties.

I found on PubChem the molecular weight of Nicotine as 162.26, the molecular weight of PG as 76.09 [g/mol].

My hypothesis is that you could concentrate the mixture by allowing them to separate given the weight difference. The flavor would also then be concentrated.

Another variable that strikes me is that PG is hygroscopic. So in the air, depending upon the humidity, I'd expect the mass to rise as it attracted water from the air.

Turning our attention to arenas I feel more comfortable in: By definition, evaporation happens only upon the surface of a liquid. By further definition, density effects evaporation - those more dense evaporating more slowly (again the reason for looking up the molecular weights). The kinetic energy of a molecule is proportional to its temperature, so increasing the temperature would increase the rate of evaporation. (that's why hotter cartomizers, or more wattage, increases the amount of vapor it produces, incidentally...). Rate of evaporation is also proportional to surface area.

Given those criteria, I would guess that since the nicotine is more dense than the PG, the PG would evaporate off faster.

I will say that PG evaporates VERY slowly, having very low kinetic energy. You could accelerate the process by placing the mixture in a shallow pan with a lot of exposed surface area, and by gently heating it.

I know there are chemists out there laughing at me right now. The _fact_ is: "I don't know". That's one of those that I'd test via experimentation rather than calculating because my chemistry-fu isn't that great. But my physics-fu suggests that the kinetic energy would be greater for the PG, and it would evaporate off first. Whether you'd lose some concentration of the nicotine solution to evaporation in that time is a question-mark - especially if you sealed the mixture, allowed it to settle (increased vapor pressure to saturation), and then conducted your evaporation.

So, although invoked, I don't think I've really helped you along much!

 

[Adrenalynn]

I don't believe there is any evaporation.

I left a dot of juice on my counter for 2 days and it was still there until I wiped it off.
The actual water content seems to be pretty low.

It seems when the juice "dates" it's due to a breakdown of chemical composition.
So while it may not atomize as well, it doesn't seem to be because it evaporates.

//Based off of observation.

There is always evaporation for a liquid [above absolute zero]. Only the speed of evaporation (the kinetic energy) is in question.

Water content is higher than one might expect, since it's hygroscopic (the PG). But water is certainly not the only liquid that evaporates. In fact - it's not even the rate-standard, butayl acetate (BuOAc) is. All liquids evaporate in the right conditions. Even more so when exposed to air [lowering the vapor pressure] or better, a vacuum. (and even more so with large surface area and some heat to excite the molecules).

Heat atomization is flash vaporization.

 

[leeshor]

Hello fellow foggers,

I just got to thinking about nic strengths in juices. So my question is:

If I leave 10ml of 8mg juice to sit out and evaporate down to 5ml, will it be 16mg juice? Or will it just be 5ml left of 8mg juice?

I know... that's 2 questions, but does anybody know if nic evaporates at regular room temp?

Thanks,
Darri

Don't forget. You asked for it...

 

[Darrigaaz]

Yes I did. Unfortunately, the last chemistry class I've taken was over 10 years ago, and it was only high school level AP Chem...

I'm actually surprised more people haven't answered or at least tried to hazard a guess. If proven one way or another, it could be another option that alot of people can utilize in the right conditions to strengthen their juices either by taste or nic. Even if it doesn't, it'll give us some clue of how careful we should be to leave our juices uncapped while dripping if there's any other side effects brought up during experimentation.

 

[Belletrist]

The thing I would worry about with trying to use evaporation as a method to increase strength is the impact it would have on the life span of flavored juices... To have it work fast enough to be worthwhile, you'd probably have to increase the surface area by putting the juice in, say, a bowl or wide mouthed jar. Exposing it to air for that length of time would (maybe) make it go bad faster. Depending on how long you planned to keep the juice in storage that may or may not be a concern.

 

[Adrenalynn]

>> To have it work fast enough to be worthwhile

That and gently heating.

 

[v1John]

I recommend just buying the next strength up.
I got my 36mg grape today and it's fabulous!

(I think if I add glycerin I change the viscosity, and if I were to evaporate water out of juice, it may also make it thicker, and it may not wick fast enough.)

 

[Adrenalynn]

[face palm]

 

[terrie1]

I add about 15 to 20% nic glycerin to all my V4L juices, they work well, even though they are a bit thicker.

 

[v1John]

At last I can vape a while and put my PV down now.
Using the right strength makes a big difference.


I'm trying to mix glycerin now, for the times when I want to just vape. I have only used less than a carto today of 36mg. so I need something weaker soon. The 36mg a day is not bad for those who seriously used to smoke, imo.

I have an open box of lozenges from last year that I found, and on the box it says "To increase your success... use enough-use at least 9 lozenges per day during the first six weeks"
These are 4mg so at least 9 per day would be at least 36mg per day. I know those were pills, and now I'm high-tech smoking, but I was curious when I found last year's box. It also says "do not use more than 5...in 6 hours. Do not use more than 20...per day." The nic. delivery is also different, and with the pills you can't eat or drink for the 15 min. preceding the pill. Anyway, I know these are all different things, but the point of my interest was that I'm going to try to start at around the neighborhood of 36mg per day.

The good thing is like I said, I can now give the wicks a break and put the PV down every so often .

 

[Kimmy]

This thread makes me feel dumb.

 

[Darrigaaz]

Wait, what? Am i in the right thread?

 

[Adrenalynn]

Nope! It got 'wrong' awhile ago.

 

[CES]

Hello fellow foggers,
..... does anybody know if nic evaporates at regular room temp?

Thanks,
Darri

I mix nicotine into saline solutions for experiments at work. I can't tell you about the carrier (PG/VG), but when nicotine comes out of solution at room temp it precipitates rather than evaporates. Nicotine is not volatile.

If you had 5 mg of nicotine in 10 ml of water, and half the water evaporated, you'd have 5 mg of nicotine in 5 ml of water. If you evaporated all of the water you'd have 5 mgs of nicotine, assuming no nicotine breakdown. However, as others have mentioned, it's easier to dilute solutions than it is to concentrate them.

 

[Symmetric]

My god, I love it when she talks nerdy.