Questions regarding the use of flavor enhancements

[roundrock]

I've been blending separately mixed flavors, and have found that I like fruits mixed with tobaccos and bakery type (cookie, cheesecake, chocolate) flavors.

With straight fruits, I usually include about 1 drop per 5 ml of koolada, T & S, EM or Sucrolose or lemon juice.

With tobaccos or bakery flavors I have been including one or more of ACV, AP, NaCl, Smooth, Maltic Acid and/or EM.

After some more trial and error, I'd like to mix some of my trials into a multi-flavor juice.

What difference if any would it make to mix the flavor dependent enhancers to a multi-flavor formula?

Would it be better to mix flavors independently of each other then blend as proportions?

Am I over thinking this? My main concern is that I'd like to able to include the cool exhale of the enhanced fruit.

Thanks for any and all feedback.

 

[chellemmm]

Just TRY it. You will know...

 

[roundrock]

Just TRY it. You will know...

Skert. Naw, I will just want some feedback. I am so intrigued about using the flavor enhancers. Hi Chelle!!

 

[SouthernBliss]

Are you planning on mixing together a fruit you have already and a tobacco you have already or will this be new mix? If it is two pre mixed I would keep track of how much you end up adding together so you can keep track of percentages. If it is new mixes I'd consider consolidating some of the extra's. Just CV instead of CV and lemon for example.

 

[roundrock]

I've made a few multi-flavor mixes and have also been combining single flavors. I don't ever use all of the above mentioned additives, but do generally add depending. I guess I should have focused on the fruit aspect, and in particular the addition of koolada.

I recently blended some CAP flavors- cheesecake, coconut and strawberry. It needs work, but the strawberry is beginning to shine (surprisingly the coconut blended right away into the cheesecake). I would like to keep the fresh and cool feeling that koolada provides to fruit during the exhale.

Clear as mud?

 

[SouthernBliss]

Clear as mud?

Almost! Ok so what you want to end up with is a nice tobacco that has a cool fruit finish? Which sort of tobaccos have you been using. I suspect that the notes that the tobacco are going to bring are going to have an influence on the fruits you use and if it all "jells". Some tobacco's already have a fair bit going on. RY4, as an example, has caramel and vanilla so you would want fruits that mixed well with caramel. Bandanna or apple maybe. On the other hand if it is a less complex tobacco that doesn't have loads of additional flavors you could easily just slip strawberry or a citrus in without having to wonder if anything will clash. One thing that I do in a situation like this is to look at traditional matches. Go to one of the sites that sells tobacco on line and read through some of the pipe tobaccos and see what sort of flavor notes are common together. It might make you go "oh or course" or "oh yuck" but it will get your brain going.

 

[roundrock]

I have a nice Ry4 (doesn't everyone). I have just started with the tobaccos- I have about 9 steeping. I suppose that I will not go very complex with any of them. I probably will only add a berry or two and maybe some vanilla something. So I suppose that the cool exhale may not be as important with them. BUT- if I do want it, I want to be able to have it as well as any vanilla/custard/spice notes. I haven't used the vinegar yet, but will it react with the koolada, lemon juice, T & S or sucrose?

The cheesecake mix is what really made me think about this. It's all Capella so, in my mind, it probably won't need that much to bring out the custard/crust and I will be okay with adding a bit of koolada for the fruit.

When I get down with the TPA or FA or even the VZ SC, then I will be more inclined to add bakery enhancers. I have an idea about PH, but not enough to tease out all the details.

I know I'm not articulating my needs clearly. I have a fairly good base regarding "what goes with what". I'm more concerned with mixing and matching PH adjustors and flavor enhancers.

My brain is full.

 

[SouthernBliss]

I've had no issues with vinegar/lemon (I am starting suspect it is all about adding acid to the mix ph but I'm also suspecting no one is really sure what PH to aim for) and koolada together. Nor does it seem to be an issue to combine EM with any of the others. I have recently read that some people suspect EM of taking down flavor somewhat though. So smooth and EM may be over kill.

Ok.. so lets say that you wanted a cool apple tobacco. You could use the ry4 and what ever apple you had. If you wanted to increase the nutty undertones of the tobacco you would add a tiny (like super small from what I hear) bit of the AP and the koolada to add to the cool of the apple. In theory if you wanted it to be a sharp apple then you might add malic acid to increase the sour. Now the real question would be, since you have added malic acid would it be any benefit to add yet more acid in the form of vinigar? My gut says that since we don't know what PH should be and since most people find satisfaction with one drop of acid per 5ml that the malic would more than cover that. I also wouldn't add sweetener till you had let it sit for a while (week or two) because it isn't always necessary.

If on the other hand the goal was a smooth tobacco with spicy undertones then you would want some custardy sort of notes as well as the spices. In theory you could use the cheesecake for that smooth flavor or you could add a custard. Again a tiny fraction of AP might be good or you could opt for a small amount of a real nut flavor like almond or pecan. Or you could cover both the cutardy/buttery with something like apple pie or even buttered pecan. Depending on how spicy the spicy was you might want EM or smooth. But if it was a very light spice you might be safer with no sweet or sucralose. This time you would need some vinegar for the PH.

I think the bottom line on what/when to add them and which ones depends strongly on what your already mixing. If the nutty/sweet/smooth/acid is already covered by a flavor your including then the extra stuff isn't necessary... or at least it shouldn't be if it follows logic.

 

[FinallyQuit]

I am intrigued! Please continue to discuss this while I mull over my thoughts. I would love a peach tobacco with a little koolada. . .

 

[Steven Pye]

not to throw a curve ball, but if you are mixing tobaccos you may also want to consider another additive- Flavour Art's MTS Vape Wizard, at 1% it makes any tobacco blend sing and enhances your tobacco.

 

[roundrock]

...and the chanting...must not forget the chanting...

 

[SouthernBliss]

Vape wizard is on my big list of things to try. I wonder if it would perhaps lower the bitter aspect of some of the NET tea's I've tried? I would guess that if you used the vape wizard that smooth would be unnecessary and perhaps also not em unless you were desperate for that sort of sweet?

Finallyquit, I have Ry4 double and peach from both Natures flavors and the flavor apprentice. I may try a small batch with one of those and no nic and see how that goes.

 

[Steven Pye]

I have smooth and vape wizard, after using each vape wizard is my go to enhancer, it works well with tobaccos and other "dark" mixes like chocolate or vanilla, I would try it with your tea extracts

smooth comes in more handy for fruits and sweets, so having both in your arsenal is good I think

 

[FinallyQuit]

Vape wizard is on my big list of things to try. I wonder if it would perhaps lower the bitter aspect of some of the NET tea's I've tried? I would guess that if you used the vape wizard that smooth would be unnecessary and perhaps also not em unless you were desperate for that sort of sweet?

Finallyquit, I have Ry4 double and peach from both Natures flavors and the flavor apprentice. I may try a small batch with one of those and no nic and see how that goes.

Oooooh, that sounds divine! Please report back.

I've mixed using both smooth and vape wizard and I don't know what the difference is, but they do work magic! In the tiramisu I just mixed the recipe called for vape wizard, crossing fingers it works out. Smelled REALLY good!

 

[roundrock]

I'm going to get back to Miss Bliss's thoughtful response when I have the proper time to devote to it. It lead me down several (dark) alleys.

That said, what exactly is koolada (W3)? I know what it does (basically although there are more nuances available than just bringing a coolness to the vapor).

Edit: W3 (30ml) N-ethyl 2-isopropyl-5-methylcyclohexanecarboxamide--Product Description
W3 is made with menthyl methyl lactate. From http://www.v-ecigs.com/w3-30ml-n-ethyl-2-isopropyl-5-methylcyclohexanecarboxamide/

 

[Steven Pye]

I'm going to get back to Miss Bliss's thoughtful response when I have the proper time to devote to it. It lead me down several (dark) alleys.

That said, what exactly is koolada (W3)? I know what it does (basically although there are more nuances available than just bringing a coolness to the vapor).

Edit: W3 (30ml) N-ethyl 2-isopropyl-5-methylcyclohexanecarboxamide--Product Description
W3 is made with menthyl methyl lactate. From W3 (30ml) N-ethyl 2-isopropyl-5-methylcyclohexanecarboxamide - Vices Electronic Cigarettes

interesting- and nice link, new shop to look at

 

[SouthernBliss]

I actually had wondered what menthol really was myself. I mean it is crystals so that sort of screamed inorganic to me. But, I kept seeing "Organic menthol" so I really wondered. I gather that menthol is made from mint but the mint flavor has been removed. I would jump to the conclusion (cose jumping is the fun part) that Koolada is menthol further pulled apart to remove the flavor molecules but leave the cool part of the mint/menthol.

30ml of Koolada? That is a boatload of coldness!

 

[SouthernBliss]

I thought I would mention that I started a PH thread which may influence how we view and use some of these enhancers. I got some brilliant information via Road_House and that put me on track for some research about PH that has given me loads to think about. Everything from dry mixes to why some of these are valuable and what they may really be influencing.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/439625-ph-e-liquids.html