Quick question about the Panasonic CGR18650CH battery for the ZMax

[Mozzie]

Hi guys,

Feel it's time to move up a gear from my eGo Twists, and have ordered a sigelei ZMax. Total newb with mods, so I'm a bit ignorant on batteries, even though I've spent a lot of time today reading up on them.

So just want to confirm - is the Panasonic CGR18650CH (2250 mAh) battery

a) suitable
b) a good choice (compared to the AW IMR battery, which is twice the price)

I'm fairly confident after reading the forums, but I have read a few posts which have slightly confused me

Thanks!

PS. The ZMax comes in a kit which includes a charger. On the assumption that it's crap and could damage my batts, is the XTAR MP1S (single bay) a decent choice instead?

 

[tA71ana]

I'm thinking of maybe getting these for my Vamo..as far as a charger I use the NiteCore Intellicharger 2 bay.
Right now I am using the Efest 2000mAh IMR batts.

 

[meli.]

Yes, you can use Panasonic CGR18650CH batteries in your ZMax.
If you choose an Xtar Charger go for either the WP2 (highly recommended) or SP2 (newer, smarter, more expensive), in the long run you are better off with 2 bays rather than one.

 

[ruff]

Better get them while you can, i hear they've discontinued those cells

Sent from my SGH-I897 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Criterion]

I would not recommend going out of your way to get panasonic batteries. They have tested and shown that they start falling off much sooner than they should which leaves you vaping at a lower voltage than other batteries would. I'll look for the charts I saw recently and if I find them I'll post them. Otherwise this matches up with my experience racing RC cars years ago. Panasonic were not sought after... Sanyo were, due to holding a higher voltage through their useful charge.

 

[Mozzie]

Interesting, thanks a lot. I suppose it's AW's then after all....

 

[UncleChuck]

I would not recommend going out of your way to get panasonic batteries. They have tested and shown that they start falling off much sooner than they should which leaves you vaping at a lower voltage than other batteries would. I'll look for the charts I saw recently and if I find them I'll post them. Otherwise this matches up with my experience racing RC cars years ago. Panasonic were not sought after... Sanyo were, due to holding a higher voltage through their useful charge.

Man I remember Sanyo 2400mAh NiCd cells were all the rage when I was into R/C, those first 3000mAh NiMh cells were out, but were nowhere near as punchy as the Sanyo NiCds. Hardwired LRP V6 ESC, some 2400s, and some custom built Reedy motor was the best setup I ever had, that should date my last involvement with R/C

Back on topic:

I'd be interested in hearing more feedback on the Panasonic CGR18650CHs, I had been looking into getting some due to the slight increase in capacity over my currently IMR 18650s, but have heard a few bad things here and there.

 

[jeffjr464]

Interesting, thanks a lot. I suppose it's AW's then after all....

or sanyo's . I've been using said panasonics for a month in my ax with no problems, 4 batts in rotation

 

[meli.]

I would not recommend going out of your way to get panasonic batteries. They have tested and shown that they start falling off much sooner than they should which leaves you vaping at a lower voltage than other batteries would. I'll look for the charts I saw recently and if I find them I'll post them. Otherwise this matches up with my experience racing RC cars years ago. Panasonic were not sought after... Sanyo were, due to holding a higher voltage through their useful charge.

I beg to differ, both Mountain Prophet and Torchy the Battery Boy (both well known and well respected) put CGR18650CH Panasonic's under rigorous tests and on both sites the Panny CGR CH comes up trumps.
I use Panny's exclusively and have yet to experience your findings.

 

[MrClouds]

do you really believe the kit charger is bad? i have that sigelei kit. if so your really making me consider buying a better one.

i own a pair of 18350. i charge them with a much smarter hobby charger that charges : nihm nicd lipo li-io

 

[kiwivap]

do you really believe the kit charger is bad? i have that sigelei kit. if so your really making me consider buying a better one.

Depends what charger it is. If its a Trustfire TR-001 its ok, but will take hours to charge an 18650. An Xstar WP II, or the newer one Meli mentioned will charge faster.

 

[Mozzie]

do you really believe the kit charger is bad? i have that sigelei kit. if so your really making me consider buying a better one.

i own a pair of 18350. i charge them with a much smarter hobby charger that charges : nihm nicd lipo li-io

Like I said, I have zero experience in this area. I'm just going by what I've read after fairly extensive trawling though the relevant forum posts. And one post that stuck in my head said something along the lines of the cheapie charger that ships with this kit (and probably others) was found to be charging the batteries to 4.5v, which apparently is not good. More "respected" chargers have some sort of monitoring system which cut off once the battery charges to the recommended level. For the sake of $10 or $20 I'd rather bin the cheapie and get something which isn't going to cause my face to be blown off

 

[WillyB]

I beg to differ, both ... put CGR18650CH Panasonic's under rigorous tests and on both sites the Panny CGR CH comes up trumps.
I use Panny's exclusively and have yet to experience your findings.

Then why are they shunned by big corporate accounts forcing Panasonic to dump (sold at or below cost) millions of unsold cells on the loose cell markets? And finally dropping them from their catalog completely.

 

[UncleChuck]

I beg to differ, both Mountain Prophet and Torchy the Battery Boy (both well known and well respected) put CGR18650CH Panasonic's under rigorous tests and on both sites the Panny CGR CH comes up trumps.
I use Panny's exclusively and have yet to experience your findings.

Huh, that's interesting.

I was reading a guy comment about the panny 18650s on another site, totally forgot the name but I believe the guy was into software development or something. Had a ecig section on his forum.

Anyway, they guy was obviously very experienced with electronics and the like, he custom builds vv mods, constructs all the circuits himself, programs the chips, etc.

He was saying how they have a higher IR than the AWs and sag under load more than the AWs. Considering AWs are 2kmAh and the pannys only a few mAh higher, I was thinking that extra capacity might not even do anything, as if they experience more voltage drop under load than the AWs, that even though it might last longer at a very light load, when down to 3.4v or so I had guessed the voltage drop would basically even out the difference in capacity.

Those charts you linked to show a totally different story. They do show a SLIGHT increase in IR from the AWs to the Pannnys, but nothing serious, and show an overall better performance.

No idea where the division of opinion comes from among the educated. I trusted the guy who's site I read because he was demonstrably well informed about electronics, batteries, etc. But it's hard to argue with charts. Now I have no idea.

I'll try and find the guy's page, perhaps two different generations of cells? Or bad quality control?

EDITZ:

So I found the site:

http://breaktru.com/smf/index.php/topic,731.0.html

I was wrong, it wasn't the site owner who said it, it was someone else on there. He's also a pretty knowledgeable person so I wouldn't have any reason to doubt him, other than the charts that were posted up earlier obviously.

This is exactly what was said:

The C rating indicates the maximum load, but the cell impedance indicates the efficiency in delivering the load. So, for example, the 1400mAh LiPo flat cells I use have about 25 mOhms internal impedance. With a 10A load, they sag around 0.25V. An AW IMR 18650 has around 35 mOhms. It will sag around 0.35V with a 10A load. The CGR18650CH has around 50 mOhms, it will sag around a half volt with a 10A load.

.5vdrop seems higher than normal. I'm assuming this data was gathered directly at the cell, not at the 510 connection on a device. If a device drops half a volt under load like that, not as big of an issue, there is switch res. to think about, all the connection points of the PV, etc. But half a volt drop at the battery itself seems a little high.

Although he did say that was at a 10amp load. AFAIK only a handfull of people are even using devices that are drawing 10amps from the battery, so maybe it's a non issue.

I just can't stand conflicting reports.

 

[mwa102464]

I have an internal resistance meter, the SM8124 meter, when I check the internal resistance both the Panny & AW are approx the same when new, ask yourself who builds both Batts as well,,,, I find both the Panny & AW to be very good Batts,,,,, However, soon, look for some newer technology to surpass both

I fully Trust David at SupetT's test charts as well, find them in the link below, they dont lie and give the results --->

Super T Manufacturing, Innovative manufacturer of electronic cigarette products.


Some even better info on new Batt tech coming, we're talking massive high c-rates, 10x faster charging, and 10x longer run times with way more mAh then we've ever seen before, I'm really looking forward to seeing these come to market.


Newer technology coming that will blow the current batts we use totally away, charging in minutes and holding charges way longer, coming this year or next most likely, maybe sooner then we think too. something like this -->

Silicon nanotube lithium-ion battery stores 10 times more power, lasts 6,000 charges | ExtremeTech

Nanowire battery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Thrasher]

i haves used the pannys with no problem in my provari, i think they hold up fine against the AW, but if in doubt you cannot go wrong with the tried and true aw reds, sweet batteries.

a lot of the tests even if accurate do not reflect our usage situations most of the mods are regulated and will keep the voltage constant sag or not.
if companies arent using them i can only see this as they arent the best to use in a straight current draw situation that connects directly to the power source like most electronics.(think flashlights)

 

[SissySpike]

I just ordered some and I look at the flashlight forums for battery info these guys have been using these same batteries for years before us. They have pretty much all good from my research.

 

[meli.]

Then why are they shunned by big corporate accounts forcing Panasonic to dump (sold at or below cost) millions of unsold cells on the loose cell markets? And finally dropping them from their catalog completely.

Panasonic have just undergone a massive re-structering process Panasonic Electric Works has been merged with Panasonic Corporation, remember these batteries are not actually meant for consumer/retail sales but for use within an industrial setting.

Panasonic have confirmed they have stopped the manufacture of CGR18650's but Not due to Safety Issues or Battery Performance. They are in the process of releasing / possibly renaming the same battery it remains to be seen when this change will take place. Over at VapAtron, some had direct correspondence with Panasonic and it seems that perhaps the battery has already been renamed although they are still trying to establish if this is correct.

I suspect in a month or so we will probably have the same battery for sale but with a different code. This does not in anyway inhibit the Panny's anyone is currently using nor does it mean your batteries are Unsafe or Under-Preforming, it's just Panasonic doing some Housekeeping.