Ratios. Puzzled.

[The Goo]

I'm slowly planning on getting into DIY. Basically playing with numbers and reading a lot.

As I was playing around with a calculator I can't seem to wrap my brain around this:

Scenario (this is purely an example):

I have 48mg Nic. base @ 100% PG |Target of 30/70 PG/VG | Target Nic. Strength of 18mg | 10ml Bottle

1 Flavor @ 6%

The calculator results in negative amounts of PG to add (-0.68) which of course is impossible.

I'm aware this is because the flavorings contain PG as well and the Nic. base is 100% PG.

The only way I can get the calculator to spit out something right is if the target is 50/50 PG/VG or target Nic. is around 8mg

My question is, what can be done to get it to work with a higher VG (ex. 30/70 PG/VG).

• Would I need to get both PG & VG based nicotine?
• Purchase a higher Nic. base?
• Dilute the 48mg with equal parts of VG, thus bringing it down to 24mg 50/50 PG/VG?

Also, I've read that nicotine doesn't stay well in 100% VG for long periods.


I could possibly be having one of those days as well.

 

[FinallyQuit]

All I can think of is adjust your percentage of pg a little higher, or make a larger ml batch.

 

[BlueMoods]

to use 100% PG nic and get the 30/70 with 6% PG flavor, you would need to use 100mg/ml nic and, before you do, read the sticky on that stuff.

 

[BobbyQ]

Higher mg nic juice.. Or lower your nic strength and/or try adjusting to 40/60..
I'm still learning DIY so... Maybe someone more knowledgeable will chime in soon..
Btw, I'm using 24mg nic juice, target strength 12mg, 5% flavor, target pg=55/45.. Although I would like a higher nic strength(16mg), it seems more complicated unless we use 100mg nic juice.

 

[Wow1420]

If you want to end up with a liquid that's high VG, it seems easiest to start with VG based nic.

I haven't read anything to say that storing VG base nic is a problem, unless you're talking about keeping it for years in the freezer, even then the difference between VG and PG base didn't seem to be all that clear cut.

 

[Jo Patterson]

for something like that, I would lie to the program and claim my flavor was 100 % VG - and then if it wanted me to add PG, I would just lump that amount into the VG that gets added. Your PG ratio might be slightly higher than you really wanted - but it's the easiest way to deal with it.

 

[Rickb119]

Try doing the calculations at 19ml target nicotine, 28pg/72vg and NO flavors. Amount to make, 9.4ml. That will get you very close to the 18ml 30/70 that you are wanting after adding the flavor. Then all you have to do is figure how many drops of flavor to add. (If 20 drops=1ml, you will add 12 drops of flavor.) Be sure to measure out 1 ml of your flavor first to find out how many drops per ml. Every dropper and every fluid is a little different. If yours measures at 25 drops per ml then you would add 15 drops.

 

[DeeDee1234]

I'm slowly planning on getting into DIY. Basically playing with numbers and reading a lot.

As I was playing around with a calculator I can't seem to wrap my brain around this:

Scenario (this is purely an example):

I have 48mg Nic. base @ 100% PG |Target of 30/70 PG/VG | Target Nic. Strength of 18mg | 10ml Bottle

1 Flavor @ 6%

The calculator results in negative amounts of PG to add (-0.68) which of course is impossible.

I'm aware this is because the flavorings contain PG as well and the Nic. base is 100% PG.

The only way I can get the calculator to spit out something right is if the target is 50/50 PG/VG or target Nic. is around 8mg

My question is, what can be done to get it to work with a higher VG (ex. 30/70 PG/VG).

• Would I need to get both PG & VG based nicotine?
• Purchase a higher Nic. base?
• Dilute the 48mg with equal parts of VG, thus bringing it down to 24mg 50/50 PG/VG?

Also, I've read that nicotine doesn't stay well in 100% VG for long periods.


I could possibly be having one of those days as well.

Your calculations are correct..

The Pg in the Nic is part of the PG ratio. With PG nic at 48mg at a NIc value of 18mgs/ml you need to add 3.75 ml ofthe NIC base on a 10ml bottle. The highest ratio is at 18mg/ml is 45/55 pg/vg.

SO,,, Either use a VG base NIC or raise the pg/vg ratio or use a higher strength pg NIC requiring less ml to be added to the Mix.
100mg/ml in PG.
If you like higher VG juices you should get your Nic in VG

 

[DeeDee1234]

Higher mg nic juice.. Or lower your nic strength and/or try adjusting to 40/60..
I'm still learning DIY so... Maybe someone more knowledgeable will chime in soon..
Btw, I'm using 24mg nic juice, target strength 12mg, 5% flavor, target pg=55/45.. Although I would like a higher nic strength(16mg), it seems more complicated unless we use 100mg nic juice.

At a 24mg/ml pg nic base to get to 16mg final strength you will need to adjust you pg/vg ratio to 80/20 pg/vg

You can hit your target 55/45 ratio with 48mg pg nic at a strenght of the final juice of 16mg.

D

 

[Spazmelda]

You could get a small bottle of 100 mg/ml nic base and mix that with your 48 mg/ml to make a higher nic concentration base. That way you wouldn't have to waste the 48 mg/ml.

So, if you were to combine equal amounts of 48 and 100 mg/ml base you'd have 74 mg/ml base. That would get you about where you want to be. If you need a little more wiggle room you could mix a higher amount of the 100 mg/ml with the 18 mg/ml to get, say 20 ml of 100 mg/ml + 10 ml of 48 mg/ml, to give you ~83 mg/ml base. If you get the high mg nic in VG, it will give you even more room. The math gets more complicated, but once you figure out what your base is, you won't have to do it again (assuming you just switch over to a higher nic base for future orders).

I'm just trying to think of a way that doesn't have you wasting the nic you've already got.

 

[The Goo]

All good answers here! This all is definitely useful. Basically I'm just going to keep it as simple as possible for now. No need to rush anything. I just couldn't wrap my brain around it but I have clarity.

So the PG/VG in the Nic. base is basically personal preference in the long run. When I mentioned Nic. in VG base, I just read that Nic. doesn't suspend well in VG compared to PG (due to the viscosity)

Thanks everyone for the help!

 

[Taylor7617]

Good read, funny thing is I got similar answer from calculator but wanted to go to more of a PG mixture as 50/50 or more VG just doesn't taste right and is to damn thick and burning my top coils (just bought some BCC's to see if this helps). Also...I get a real "dry mouth" sensation on 50/50.

Got 50/50 36mg nic, PG, VG and flavor. Seems flavor is VG based as description doesn't mention PG at all.

Using calc with flavor at 100% VG it gives an error.
Only way to make it work is use 100% PG nic.


Does this sound about right to get a 70/30 end result?



Last question, you all have mentioned 5% flavor. Seems I recall reading that the flavor should be in the realm of 20% of the mixture. Is this the same thing? Are you saying on 5% of mixture should be flavor? I got this based off of the calculator eJuice Me Up.

 

[The Goo]

Good read, funny thing is I got similar answer from calculator but wanted to go to more of a PG mixture as 50/50 or more VG just doesn't taste right and is to damn thick and burning my top coils (just bought some BCC's to see if this helps). Also...I get a real "dry mouth" sensation on 50/50.

Got 50/50 36mg nic, PG, VG and flavor. Seems flavor is VG based as description doesn't mention PG at all.

Using calc with flavor at 100% VG it gives an error.
Only way to make it work is use 100% PG nic.


Does this sound about right to get a 70/30 end result?



Last question, you all have mentioned 5% flavor. Seems I recall reading that the flavor should be in the realm of 20% of the mixture. Is this the same thing? Are you saying on 5% of mixture should be flavor? I got this based off of the calculator eJuice Me Up.

I just threw numbers up there to get my main idea across. I'm still researching myself and trying to grasp everything before I dive in. I believe (as I've read and read flavor descriptions) most flavors are PG based.

 

[The Goo]

Also, theoretically I could cut lets say 30ml of 60mg nic. base @ 100% PG with 30ml of straight VG and get a 50/50 30mg base to work with correct?

 

[Johnny Skillish]

I'm slowly planning on getting into DIY. Basically playing with numbers and reading a lot.

As I was playing around with a calculator I can't seem to wrap my brain around this:

Scenario (this is purely an example):

I have 48mg Nic. base @ 100% PG |Target of 30/70 PG/VG | Target Nic. Strength of 18mg | 10ml Bottle

1 Flavor @ 6%

The calculator results in negative amounts of PG to add (-0.68) which of course is impossible.

I'm aware this is because the flavorings contain PG as well and the Nic. base is 100% PG.

The only way I can get the calculator to spit out something right is if the target is 50/50 PG/VG or target Nic. is around 8mg

My question is, what can be done to get it to work with a higher VG (ex. 30/70 PG/VG).

• Would I need to get both PG & VG based nicotine?
• Purchase a higher Nic. base?
• Dilute the 48mg with equal parts of VG, thus bringing it down to 24mg 50/50 PG/VG?

Also, I've read that nicotine doesn't stay well in 100% VG for long periods.


I could possibly be having one of those days as well.

To answer your question directly...It's very difficult to make smaller quantities of any higher PG or VG juice % without the accompanying nic base that you want to bump up. So I would say, if you want to make 30/70 type juices, then go with a VG based nic. Interesting too is if you go with say the 48mg strength you'll need less VG to add than in a higher mg. strength, needing to have plenty of VG on hand.

I can tell you what I do which is relevant because it so happens that I make my juices with the exact opposite numbers you're talking about. I use 100mg nic in a PG base, along with my PG flavors. I have come to almost a default of a 70/30 PG/VG as result of this and all of my mixes work out great. There are def times to make a higher VG juice for various reasons but...

1. Practically and mathematically speaking - It helps me to add nearly equal amounts of PG & VG in all of my mixes. (ie. 20% nic (PG) + 20% flavor = 40%, and @ a 70/30 mix, it's another 30% PG, and 30% VG. Dead equal amounts to BE ADDED.) I just feel it maximizes the PG and VG on hand to make as many juices as I can without using a heck of a lot more of either, especially VG.
2. Quality-wise - a 70/30 mix will vape in everything with great flavor! A high VG juice is very difficult to vape in a CE, clearomizer style tank, and lots of others. I vape all of my higher VG juices in RBA's.

I know some people are way on one side or the other due to things they've read about both PG and VG, the devices they're using, etc...but other than a reason for a strong personal preference, use the numbers that work for you, and are easy to work with.

Finally, as far as the calc goes, whenever you end up with a neg - just play with the PG/VG % boxes. If the juice ends up being 74/26, or 63/37, it's fine. It's not THAT crucial MOST of the time, as long as you measure it out right, and get your flavors right WHEN MIXING IT! THAT'S what's going to make you a great juice!

I know I kind of rambled here a bit, but I know what it feels like to JUST start. The sticky's here are GREAT and will answer questions that you don't even have yet!

"Scubabatdan" has an AMAZING Excel calc with EVERYTHING in there!

I hope something I said helped.

All the best!

Vape on!

-JS

 

[DeeDee1234]

Also, theoretically I could cut lets say 30ml of 60mg nic. base @ 100% PG with 30ml of straight VG and get a 50/50 30mg base to work with correct?

YEs, that is correct

 

[DeeDee1234]

Good read, funny thing is I got similar answer from calculator but wanted to go to more of a PG mixture as 50/50 or more VG just doesn't taste right and is to damn thick and burning my top coils (just bought some BCC's to see if this helps). Also...I get a real "dry mouth" sensation on 50/50.

Got 50/50 36mg nic, PG, VG and flavor. Seems flavor is VG based as description doesn't mention PG at all.

Using calc with flavor at 100% VG it gives an error.
Only way to make it work is use 100% PG nic.


Does this sound about right to get a 70/30 end result?



Last question, you all have mentioned 5% flavor. Seems I recall reading that the flavor should be in the realm of 20% of the mixture. Is this the same thing? Are you saying on 5% of mixture should be flavor? I got this based off of the calculator eJuice Me Up.

The percentages of flavoring is wildly different from flavor to flavor even within the same manufacturers. Any where from .35 to 25 percent. CHeck the flavoring treads for individual flavor starting points and start lower and work up as its easier to add to a mix than subtract

 

[Calivapr123]

You could get a small bottle of 100 mg/ml nic base and mix that with your 48 mg/ml to make a higher nic concentration base. That way you wouldn't have to waste the 48 mg/ml.

So, if you were to combine equal amounts of 48 and 100 mg/ml base you'd have 74 mg/ml base. That would get you about where you want to be. If you need a little more wiggle room you could mix a higher amount of the 100 mg/ml with the 18 mg/ml to get, say 20 ml of 100 mg/ml + 10 ml of 48 mg/ml, to give you ~83 mg/ml base. If you get the high mg nic in VG, it will give you even more room. The math gets more complicated, but once you figure out what your base is, you won't have to do it again (assuming you just switch over to a higher nic base for future orders).

I'm just trying to think of a way that doesn't have you wasting the nic you've already got.

I actually did almost the exact thing above once before, when my first order of Nic was only 24mg/ml in PG, and I wanted to make a high VG juice, it was not possible. So I ordered high Nic juice in PG and mixed it up with the old one.

Another way to do it avoiding the risk of working with High Nic juice is for the OP to order the same Nic level as he bought originally (48mg/ml) but this time in VG base, and then mix that up with the old one so as to achieve 50/50 PG VG Nic. That would give enough flexibility to go either way in PG/VG ratio as well as Nic level in the juice.

 

[Taylor7617]

To answer your question directly...It's very difficult to make smaller quantities of any higher PG or VG juice % without the accompanying nic base that you want to bump up. So I would say, if you want to make 30/70 type juices, then go with a VG based nic. Interesting too is if you go with say the 48mg strength you'll need less VG to add than in a higher mg. strength, needing to have plenty of VG on hand.

I can tell you what I do which is relevant because it so happens that I make my juices with the exact opposite numbers you're talking about. I use 100mg nic in a PG base, along with my PG flavors. I have come to almost a default of a 70/30 PG/VG as result of this and all of my mixes work out great. There are def times to make a higher VG juice for various reasons but...

1. Practically and mathematically speaking - It helps me to add nearly equal amounts of PG & VG in all of my mixes. (ie. 20% nic (PG) + 20% flavor = 40%, and @ a 70/30 mix, it's another 30% PG, and 30% VG. Dead equal amounts to BE ADDED.) I just feel it maximizes the PG and VG on hand to make as many juices as I can without using a heck of a lot more of either, especially VG.
2. Quality-wise - a 70/30 mix will vape in everything with great flavor! A high VG juice is very difficult to vape in a CE, clearomizer style tank, and lots of others. I vape all of my higher VG juices in RBA's.

I know some people are way on one side or the other due to things they've read about both PG and VG, the devices they're using, etc...but other than a reason for a strong personal preference, use the numbers that work for you, and are easy to work with.

Finally, as far as the calc goes, whenever you end up with a neg - just play with the PG/VG % boxes. If the juice ends up being 74/26, or 63/37, it's fine. It's not THAT crucial MOST of the time, as long as you measure it out right, and get your flavors right WHEN MIXING IT! THAT'S what's going to make you a great juice!

I know I kind of rambled here a bit, but I know what it feels like to JUST start. The sticky's here are GREAT and will answer questions that you don't even have yet!

"Scubabatdan" has an AMAZING Excel calc with EVERYTHING in there!

I hope something I said helped.

All the best!

Vape on!

-JS

Interesting..............mathematically this works using PG based nic and flavoring. Wondering, what nic strength are you trying to achieve? Using the calculator that I have....to use 20% nic and 20% flavor with equal PG/VG additive sets around 10mg nic. Many use or want higher nic strength so for that you wouldn't be able to use equal PG/VG. Right?!?

 

[The Goo]

I didn't want to start a whole new thread for one question:

I read that oils are obviously not water soluble and need to be mixed (ex. PGA)

My question is, is this avoided purchasing lets say Absinthe that is already suspended in Ethyl Alcohol? My guess would be 'Yes' but I just wanted to confirm.

I'm planning on starting with WL, however everything keeps becoming out of stock! (flavors, all high nic bases etc) Any experience on how long it takes WL to restock?


The Goo