Really, really OT: Any parents of young girls?

[FantWriter]

I'm writing a story, and I need info which I've long forgotten.

The protagonist, having gone back to 15th Century England, buys 4 children to be his servants (as a cover for having them in his home so he can teach them everything from reading and writing to basic chemistry, the principles of critical thinking, etc.).

The problem is that he needs them to be as independent as possible (as in being able to dress themselves, eat without supervision, won't run screaming every time they get a scratch, etc.) but are young enough to be easily turned (that they fully accept his beliefs/way of life/teachings as their own). He can't spend all his time as a substitute parent, and they have to be seen doing useful chores.

I've chosen 9 year-olds for several reasons:
1) That's the youngest that servants at the time were usually bought and sold.
2) It was seen as the age when how much care they needed was at least slightly less than how much work they could do.
3) I think that's the age when they're still in the process of losing their baby teeth, and he wants to teach them proper oral hygiene before their adult teeth have been abused too much.
4) The price of female slaves rose dramatically as they neared puberty.
5) He doesn't want to have to deal with teenagers!

But I'm really not comfortable with that -- something at the back of my mind tells me I'm blind to some blatant fact that would make them totally unsuitable at that age.

Does anyone here have children from 8 to 10 years old and can enlighten me as to what I'm missing?

(I should note that the attitude of modern children doesn't apply -- at that time, children born of slaves knew their place.)

 

[Safira]

I'm confused, you are writing a fictional story about a person wanting to buy child "slaves" but really he wants to educate them? What is his motive for this, was my 1st thought. (maybe I'm missing the bigger picture in this story)

As for kids that age, it seems to me unless they have been really lucky he will 1st have to teach them to read. You might be able to go younger, my mother tells me as a child growing up she was 5 or 6 years old and had cook and clean for the family and still go to school. We are talking ironing with hot coals, cooking with a brick oven, etc. At 10 those girls may already be set in there "lot in life" can that still be as easily changed.

One other thing, does he have a wife or adult female in the house. In those days will a "man" be able to teach them proper female hygiene. This is something "men" should never know about, hide your wash in the attic so the men don't see anything.

 

[FantWriter]

His motives are many --
The most noble is that he knows he can't save an entire world, especially when it means trying to save it from itself, but he can take a few away from a lifetime of woe, and they can act as a seed, educating others after he's gone. That will benefit mankind as a whole.

Less noble, but more in character, is that he's using that home as a safe haven. When he returns from one of his jaunts to another time, there'll be good servants waiting to cater to his needs. Uneducated people make poor servants.

Another factor is that he's going to be relatively isolated. What's the use of knowing to wash your hands before eating and keeping your kitchen clean to prevent roaches if your guests are flea-ridden nobles who pee on the floor? He's going to be spending most of his time in the company of his servants, and uneducated people are rarely good conversationalists.

The first thing is teaching them to read and write. It was rare at the time to find children who could read; it was reserved for the clergy and the elite, and most of them didn't start learning until their teens. Also, Latin was the first choice (so you could read the Bible).

Thanks for the info about kindergarten-aged children doing useful work. I hesitate to make them younger than 8 or 9 because of height -- countertops and cabinets have to be easily and safely accessible, and he can't be remodeling every few years to accommodate them.

The first things he teaches them are reading and how movies work, so books he can give them and a copy of that film schools show in sixth grade(?) should cover the whole female thing.

Thanks for the info!

 

[Pamdane]

I would say a 6 or 7 year old would be better. Formative years, curiosity is still there, life hasnt gotten them down, teeth are just starting to fall out and new ones coming in, height- stools are a wonderful thing- watch the movie Annie.

 

[FantWriter]

Thanks! I introduce the girls by noting their differences in their approach to dental hygiene (one loves toothpaste and brushes whenever she can, another tries the 'wet the toothbrush' trick to avoid it).

Am I right that 7 years old is about 4 feet tall? I have to admit I'm not fond of the idea of stools. Because of the nature of his device, he can go on one of his jaunts to another time, spend a year or two there, and come back an hour after he left, but there's always the possibility of missing his mark and returning a few days late. A kid falling off a stool would need immediate care.

When I was growing up, I had a little red ladder so I could put my clothes in the washer, close the lid, and then climb on top to set the controls. I never fell, but it was obviously a risky proposition. I suspect that's where my fear of heights comes from!

 

[Safira]

Again, I'm just relating stories I've heard from my mother. They lived on a farm, but I don't think the kitchen would look like a modern kitchen like today. They had a table, and at 5 or 6 years old she would get up early in the morning and make the dough for bread or pasta. She never talked about having counters, she used the kitchen table, to kneed the dough, and then I think she would also use the bed. Off to school she'd go, and then come home for lunch to finish off whatever she was making. (quickly because she had to get back to school) I'm guessing at that time she might put it in the brick oven. The way she used the brick oven sounds different from how they use it now. They would start a fire early, and when everything was red hot they would put out the fire, and put in whatever they would be "cooking". Then they would close up the oven opening with rocks and let everything slowly cool down and "cook".

She didn't really have high placed cabinets, they had one armoire that they would keep some food in. Any meat they had was very special, and the adults would hang it from the ceiling. (probably to dry and keep animals from stealing it) But all my aunts and uncles talk about sneaking in there climbing on furniture to steal some of the meat. (I'm guessing it was probably jerky) That's about the only time they talk about climbing on things to get at stuff. Otherwise everything was accessable to them, becuase they had to work around the home too.

My mother at a very young age would have greet my grandfather when he would ride in on his horse. (WWII in Italy, my mother's family didn't have cars) My mother would have to take his gun, and coat and hang them both up, she was very small and would jump to reach high enough to hang the coat, and not let it drag on the floor, or he'd be ...... off. Imagin a 6 year old with a gun in there hands these days.

I just think you are really underestimating how young kids where put to work. Kids didn't get coddled like they do in modern day's if you could walk you had a job to do for the family. My mother never talks about having a toy or a doll to play with. She had responsibilities to do, things had to get done or the family wouldn't eat. Uncles had to work on the farm or they wouldn't make money. My grandmother would have to go in town to sell the wheat and flour, and make sure she wasn't being ripped off. (she didn't want the kids doing that)

 

[FantWriter]

I'm not greatly concerned about the amount of work they can do because it's a modern house so there really isn't much. (Local laborers assembled the outer shells of the buildings. The interior rooms were built in the here-and-now by a trailer house factory, and he used his time-travel device to pop them directly into place so all he had to do was hook up the wiring and plumbing for the kitchen and bathrooms.)

The servants' chores are basically serving food to him and his guests (the locals have to see them being servants), running carpet sweepers over the floors once or twice a week, dusting, sorting his and their own clothes and putting them into front-loader washers (but they don't run them), making beds, etc. Cooking consists of boiling water (for boil-in-bag meals), putting tv dinners or frozen entrees into the oven, opening cans, washing and cutting up fresh veggies, and doing the dishes afterwards.

I feel the servants' height is a concern because it'll take a while to teach them how to prepare meals, and counters for a grown man and counters for kindergarten-aged children aren't anywhere near the same height. Also, people back them were generally much shorter than we are. I could get around the height problem somehow if need be, but it'd mean redoing at least one full chapter, and possibly much more.

What worries me is how independent the servants can be. He's going to be spending four or five hours a day teaching them, and it isn't in his disposition to be a parent to them the rest of the time. If one cuts their finger chopping onions, they should do as he taught them: wash their hands and put on a Band-Aid. Running to him so he can kiss it and make it all better, dry their tears, and hug them until everything is all right just isn't acceptable.

I expect young slaves of that era to be far more stoic than modern children, and it will take them a long time (years?) to become relaxed and playful (an effect of his not treating them like slaves), but there may be times when they're alone in the house for a day or two.

I think what's troubling me is that something in the back of my mind is telling me that even 9 years old isn't mature enough.

 

[progg]

Is it too late to introduce an accidental outsider?

Perhaps a mature, wise woman who has escaped from a horrible circumstance(s), and doesn't wish to be found?

Obvious for sure -- but a complementary and competing intellect could increase tension.

 

[FantWriter]

Is it too late to introduce an accidental outsider?
Perhaps a mature, wise woman who has escaped from a horrible circumstance(s), and doesn't wish to be found?
Obvious for sure -- but a complementary and competing intellect could increase tension.

It's far too late.

I think I have enough tension -- ever try to think of ways to explain toilets, toilet paper, shampoo, showers, toothbrushes, and panties in very simple words (because you don't have a great command of the language) to people who've never even imagined such things are necessary? Then you get to convince them that electric lights, movies, and a refrigerator aren't witchcraft. And you, as their new owner, get to stab them with needles so you can test them for diseases, and do it without them thinking it's some kind of satanic blood ritual.

If you get through all that, it should be easy to make them think the dinosaurs you're breeding in the backyard are just animals from your homeland.

Oh, and there's also this little thing about the king wanting you to stay because he's hoping to steal the secrets of your P-90, a Duke resents the king giving you one of the Duke's villages as a place to build your home, and the Earl who was destined to inherit that village, and the prime farmland around it, isn't too happy, either.

If that isn't enough, you inadvertently insulted the Bishop when you first arrived . . .

 

[progg]

mistake, ignore...........

 

[Safira]

As for things like shampoo it may not be much of a difference from what they had been used to. (OK they didn't shower everyday like us) But if you look into how soap is made and think about the way they did it back then, I have a feeling that would be a thick gel like consistency, and not hard bars like "we" think of. So it might not be to far off.

Needles, and bleeding, may have been something normal too. Maybe someone else can comment but I thought in the 1700's wasn't it George Washington's family that had a doctor give them a "vaccine". I remember it was a real live vaccine and they hoped it was small enough amount to not kill them, but just get them sick and have the body recover. (I reserve the right to be wrong on this one, because I'm trying to use my brain, something I just don't have.) Blood letting at one time was normal practice so you might be able to use this info to better help the story line.

If you get the children young enough, these things aren't really problems. The problem would be the children telling others outside the household. As soon as you tell a young child "don't you dare tell anyone" you are just asking for the whole world to know, because they will proceed to tell every single human, plant, and animal they can tell. Believing the impossible is possible for a young child is the easy part, the hard part is making them keep their mouth shut.

Good luck with your story, it sounds fun.

 

[FantWriter]

The problem with the needles is because they came out of their first real baths fairly clean, so he thought things were going to start going well. Then they put up a fuss about getting stabbed (I don't think children of any age like getting shots). When he tried to compare it to being bled, it came out that two had never seen a doctor. The other two had seen doctors, but only as a visitor in their old master's house. None of them knew anything about what doctors do. In the 15th Century, doctors were few and far between and only treated the richest nobles.

He knows he has to make sure they understand everything clearly -- witches were burned at the stake, and everybody they meet is going to pump them for information about the rich foreigner who has come to live amongst them.

Thanks for the input, and thanks again for the good wishes!