Resistance too low (Ni200), possible remedy?

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KurtVD

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Hello,
i have restarted vaping recently, thankfully I had stored everything in a box, including wire spools and wick material. Other than SS316 wire, I also have a few spools of Ni200, from 24 to 30 Ga. Unfortunately it's not easy to make a Ni200 with enough resistance to be recognised by the mod (I think it needs at least 0.05). I've got 22mm atomisers, so there's only enough room for 5 rounds(?) per coil. The "best" I got so far was 0.06, with 30 Ga wire.
I like vaping with a Ni200 coil, I prefer the taste of it compared to SS316. I only vape with TC enabled, and from what I remember, there's not many more types of wire that can be used with TC. So is there a way to obtain higher resistance coils, with the same wire?
 

AngeNZ

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  • Mar 24, 2018
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    Hello,
    i have restarted vaping recently, thankfully I had stored everything in a box, including wire spools and wick material. Other than SS316 wire, I also have a few spools of Ni200, from 24 to 30 Ga. Unfortunately it's not easy to make a Ni200 with enough resistance to be recognised by the mod (I think it needs at least 0.05). I've got 22mm atomisers, so there's only enough room for 5 rounds(?) per coil. The "best" I got so far was 0.06, with 30 Ga wire.
    I like vaping with a Ni200 coil, I prefer the taste of it compared to SS316. I only vape with TC enabled, and from what I remember, there's not many more types of wire that can be used with TC. So is there a way to obtain higher resistance coils, with the same wire?

    Only way I can think of is more wraps or a larger coil id. Both of which may not fit your atty's deck.
     

    zoiDman

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    Hello,
    i have restarted vaping recently, thankfully I had stored everything in a box, including wire spools and wick material. Other than SS316 wire, I also have a few spools of Ni200, from 24 to 30 Ga. Unfortunately it's not easy to make a Ni200 with enough resistance to be recognised by the mod (I think it needs at least 0.05). I've got 22mm atomisers, so there's only enough room for 5 rounds(?) per coil. The "best" I got so far was 0.06, with 30 Ga wire.
    I like vaping with a Ni200 coil, I prefer the taste of it compared to SS316. I only vape with TC enabled, and from what I remember, there's not many more types of wire that can be used with TC. So is there a way to obtain higher resistance coils, with the same wire?

    That kinda the Catch-22 of using Ni200.

    If you use a Small Diameter Wire for Higher Ohms, then the Coil is about a Strong as a Cooked Noodle. But if you move to a Bigger Diameter Wire, then the Ohms start to Plummet. There just Isn't a very big Working Range for Ni200.

    I'd just Switch to 316/316L and call it a day.
     

    zoiDman

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  • Apr 16, 2010
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    I do like working with soft nickel and it works for me. But I also tried tempered Ni200 and that stuff is really stiff. So if you like nickel, but it is too soft, tempered Ni200 is for you. Resistance is exactly the same and it vapes the same.

    I take it you Can't Dry Burn that "Tempered" Ni200?

    Cause without a Quench in say Water, an Air Cool would just Anneal it back to be Soft Again.
     

    BillW50

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    I take it you Can't Dry Burn that "Tempered" Ni200?

    Cause without a Quench in say Water, an Air Cool would just Anneal it back to be Soft Again.

    I don't know how they temper Ni200, but it doesn't get soft again at vaping temperatures. And you should never dry burn nickel or titanium anyway. Nickel releases toxic fumes at dry burning temperatures (same for tempered) and titanium can burst into flames.

    300 series SS also contains nickel and so does Ni80 (Nichrome). And whenever I dry burn any of those two, I sometimes get this weird taste when vaping. I might be oversensitive or something and maybe most vapers won't notice. So I won't dry burn 300 series SS or Ni80 anymore.

    Kanthal seems ok to dry burn and it doesn't have a weird taste to it to me. Although dry burning Kanthal can cause micro cracks and then Kanthal gets brittle. Those cracks can start to rust and then I at least start tasting iron. You won't see the rust and cracks without magnification (that is how I found them) until a bit later. Then it will be obviously rusted.
     

    KurtVD

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    I've done some more searching here, and I've found a thread about tensioned coils, which (if I understand correctly) are coils where the wraps actually touch each other. That way I could fit a few more wraps, I think. Would that be a viable "solution"?

    EDIT:
    I guess I meant what is called inline coils, I'll have to do some more reading to understand what exactly is the difference (between tensioned coils and coils with no spaces)
     
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    KurtVD

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    What kind of mod(s) are you using KurtVD? I too love the taste and flavor that comes from Ni200. Most of my mods are DNA mods and they often will fire at 0.01Ω or less. Many of my Ni200 builds run between 0.04Ω to 0.1Ω. Some prefer titanium wire (T1). The resistance is about 5 times higher.
    Two cheap mods (one Eleaf Pico with Arctic Fox firmware, one Teslacig), both only work down to 0.05, and even at 0.06/7, it can be sketchy still (i.e. I get a few puffs and the next one it says "Resistance too low" and I have to unscrew and reinstall the atomiser).I didn't know that some mods work below 0.05, that would be a solution.
     
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    KurtVD

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    And you should never dry burn nickel or titanium anyway. Nickel releases toxic fumes at dry burning temperatures (same for tempered) and titanium can burst into flames.
    I didn't know that you can NEVER dry burn nickel, is that true? I thought those fumes are only released during too high temperatures, i.e. I thought it was OK to dry burn it, as long as you don't inhale anything. Are you saying that once dry burned, it will keep on releasing toxic fumes, even if it's used at the correct temps after that?
     
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    KurtVD

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    I just went to steam engine and got 4.36 wraps for 30g 3mm NI200 for at 0.1 ohm coil. If you're looking for higher than that without huge coils then then you'll need to settle for SS or Ti or something else.
    So I just made a 3mm coil with 5 wraps, and that came out as 0.08 and 0.09 on my two mods. My little cheap Ohmmeter (one specifically for atomisers, with the corresponding socket) however showed 0.06, the same value as I get when measuring with my multimeter, at the poles. Could it be that Steam Engine is a little optimistic, at least with Ni200?
     

    zoiDman

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    I don't know how they temper Ni200, but it doesn't get soft again at vaping temperatures. ...

    Yeah, Vaping Temps just aren't high enough to achieve any real Annealing.

    "Tempering" is a somewhat Generic Term. It could be done to Remove Internal Stresses. And or to Decrease Brittleness. But it is mostly done to Improve "Toughness".
     

    UncleJunkle

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    So I just made a 3mm coil with 5 wraps, and that came out as 0.08 and 0.09 on my two mods. My little cheap Ohmmeter (one specifically for atomisers, with the corresponding socket) however showed 0.06, the same value as I get when measuring with my multimeter, at the poles. Could it be that Steam Engine is a little optimistic, at least with Ni200?


    Well calculators calculate using exact parameters. You'll never achieve that in the real world (but can get close) due to factors beyond your control.

    You have 3 solutions to your problem:

    - Use other Temp Control wire materials, but you aren't willing to do that, so...
    - Acquire larger attys that can accommodate larger coils
    - Acquire mods that will fire lower than 0.05 ohms.

    You have no other solutions that I am aware of.
     
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    BillW50

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    I've done some more searching here, and I've found a thread about tensioned coils, which (if I understand correctly) are coils where the wraps actually touch each other. That way I could fit a few more wraps, I think. Would that be a viable "solution"?

    EDIT:
    I guess I meant what is called inline coils, I'll have to do some more reading to understand what exactly is the difference (between tensioned coils and coils with no spaces)

    Here we call coils that touch each other contact coils and those that don't we call spaced coils. Yes you can use contact Ni200 coils. But you have to strum the coils no higher than 600°F (315°C) until all of the shorts are gone.

    Although barely spaced coils isn't hard to do with soft nickle either. Here is one of my Kanger Subtank RBA with a nickel (Ni200) build.

    IMG_0119.JPG

    The ID is 3mm and it's 28g Ni200. It is obviously 9 wraps. And it is a spaced coil to boot in such a tiny space. And when I am using 3mm ID @ 28ga Ni200, resistance is super easy to calculate. Each wrap is about 0.01Ω. So that coil would likely be 0.09Ω plus it looks like another wrap for each leg. So I bet it would ohm 0.11ish.
     
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    BillW50

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    I didn't know that you can NEVER dry burn nickel, is that true? I thought those fumes are only released during too high temperatures, i.e. I thought it was OK to dry burn it, as long as you don't inhale anything. Are you saying that once dry burned, it will keep on releasing toxic fumes, even if it's used at the correct temps after that?

    I was always told you shouldn't, so I don't. I have dry burned SS316L and Ni80 until I started to get this weird metallic taste and smell from vaping afterwards with those coils. I'm guessing it is from overheating the nickel in those coils. But what do I know?
     

    BillW50

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    So I just made a 3mm coil with 5 wraps, and that came out as 0.08 and 0.09 on my two mods. My little cheap Ohmmeter (one specifically for atomisers, with the corresponding socket) however showed 0.06, the same value as I get when measuring with my multimeter, at the poles. Could it be that Steam Engine is a little optimistic, at least with Ni200?

    UncleJunkle example was using 30ga. Maybe you are using 28ga Ni200 @ 3mm. And 0.06Ω sounds right on the money to me.
     
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    KurtVD

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    With English not being my first language, I don't understand...what does "strumming the coil" mean? What exactly do I have to do, and how will I now when "all of the shorts are gone"?

    But you have to strum the coils no higher than 600°F (315°C) until all of the shorts are gone.
     
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    BillW50

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    With English not being my first language, I don't understand...what does "strumming the coil" mean? What exactly do I have to do, and how will I now when "all of the shorts are gone"?

    Sure no problem. You run something non conductive and can handle heat like Teflon tweezers across the coil while firing. Or use metal tweezers or a screwdriver or something while not firing. The resistance will increase as the shorts will disappear.
     
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